Footage of Michael Jackson ring shopping with a young boy resurfaces

[Deleted member 12790]

I think something a lot of people don't quite get is that the allegation isn't that Michael Jackson just molested children. Like, I think that puts images into peoples minds of someone who hates children, that children reflexively fear, where they hate themselves and the abuse instant.

The claims against Michael Jackson is that he groomed and molested children. The grooming is specifically a huge part of the allegations about him. I think people don't know what grooming is. He, essentially, had romantic relationships with these children. He seduced them. They were in love with him, both mentally and physically. They even say so in the documentary. They thought much of the abuse "felt good."

So when people are like "why didn't these guys come forward earlier?" They're psychological messes. Do you know how fucked up coming to grips that would be? These are guys who identify as straight men, they have children and families. It's still 2019. Of course it'll take decades for some of these victims to come to terms with what happened to them. Both guys say they still miss MJ to a degree.

 

[Joliet Jake]

People have always defended the crazy shit he did. He dangled a fucking baby off a balcony and everybody just acted like it was a joke. Just Michael being Michael. If you still think he was innocent at this point you might as well be a flat earther. Critical thinking is just not your strong suit.

 

[ZeoVGM]

The fact that the guy from the documentary literally described whats going on in this recording is all the proof you need.

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The videos in the OP were posted in 2015. The date is on the videos.

So while I fully understand anyone who believes the accusers -- and the documentary has absolutely made me step back and question my own opinions on the MJ accusations -- the fact that the documentary described what is going on in these videos is not proof. These videos have been public record for years.

 

[jviggy43]

Since you're calling people out, why not backup what you said about me



Go ahead and show me a single post here where I did this. Or can you not provide any evidence to backup your claims?

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Ok

What is so wrong with trying to get some clarity on something before forming an opinion...

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HBO has five hours of clarification available to you.

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but you could just post here and get the answer in under a minute...

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Give me that 100 dollars you edited out I'll be sending you my pay pal

 

[Sinder]

The majority of the board? I'd find that really hard to believe. It's almost impossible to say he didn't have inappropriate relationships with children. I know some people will say that but I doubt it's close to a majority around here.

But if this majority includes anyone simply asking a question than maybe?

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If you find that hard to believe, take a look at the locked DMC5 MJ thread in gaming side. Dozens upon dozens, maybe nearly 100 people all defending MJ in there.

 

[Richietto]

The videos in the OP were literally in 2015. The date is on the videos.

So while I fully understand anyone who believes the accusers -- and the documentary has absolutely made me step back and question my own opinions on the MJ accusations -- the fact that the documentary described what is going on is not proof. These videos have been public record for years.

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Ohhh okay. Honestly its kinda like if it talks like a duck and walks like a duck, its a duck. Could be wrong but at this point I see no reason to believe he was innocent.

 

[Sinder]

but you could just post here and get the answer in under a minute...

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Lol this gives you away

 

[DECK’ARD]

Ohhh okay. Honestly its kinda like if it talks like a duck and walks like a duck, its a duck. Could be wrong but at this point I see no reason to believe he was innocent.

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Yep, even a moonwalking duck is still a duck.

 

[Renna Hazel]

Ok




Give me that 100 dollars you edited out I'll be sending you my pay pal

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I didn't edit anything out, my offer still stands. I didn't ask any questions, someone else did and was called out for it and all I said was there is nothing wrong with wanting clarification. Show me where I asked anyone to explain this topic to me and you get your 100 dollars, no BS.

My thing is that people shouldn't be looked down on by simply asking for clarification, and it doesn't always mean the question is in bad faith. I will often ask questions if I'm not sure of something, but I didn't do it in this topic. I merely defended someone who did.

 

[Sordid Plebeian]

Fucking yiiiiiiiikes

 

[Renna Hazel]

Lol this gives you away

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Gives me away? You guys are way too hell bent on trying to find ill intent where there is none.

 

[rude]

Fuck this guy and his delusional fans

 

[Osa15]

His porno stash is much creepier. I m not sure why he didn't get psychological help. Even though his music was amazing, someone should have stepped in and said, "Mike...you know I love you, but what you are doing is not normal and I m sending you a therapist to cure you." The evidence is too much that he was a pedo, but I believe his family have a lot of blame in this as they should have stepped in earlier and stopped him hanging around these kids.

 

[Tremorah]

And you can bet your ass the marriage was properly consummated

 

[Deleted member 7148]

That's insane. Basically everything James Safechuck described about them shopping for rings is in those videos. Even the store clerk said they were asking to look at whatever the boy wanted to see.

Bill O'Riley was bringing the receipts all along.

 

[Big One]

I didn't edit anything out, my offer still stands. I didn't ask any questions, someone else did and was called out for it and all I said was there is nothing wrong with wanting clarification. Show me where I asked anyone to explain this topic to me and you get your 100 dollars, no BS.

My thing is that people shouldn't be looked down on by simply asking for clarification, and it doesn't always mean the question is in bad faith. I will often ask questions if I'm not sure of something, but I didn't do it in this topic. I merely defended someone who did.

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I'm ok with answering questions but I'm unsure if the mods are when it comes to this lol. Like I understand why some people would be confused because there's a lot of misinformation on the web presented as "the facts" or whatever. Some stuff that is being used to debunk Wade's claims for example dont actually debunk anything other than tell the same story from a different point of view aka Wade's ex girlfriend coming out and saying she thinks he's lying because "She never saw them sleeping together." or whatever.

 

[Kayla]

That was disturbing. I wonder what the reaction would be if this came out when he was alive? Seems everyone was making excuses for him. "he's just a child on the inside!"

 

[LewieP]

Footage doesn't show anything new, or anything illegal.

But there's been enough information for reasonable individuals to conclude he was a pedo since the 90s, unless you're deliberately keeping your head in the sand.

 

[Renna Hazel]

I'm ok with answering questions but I'm unsure if the mods are when it comes to this lol. Like I understand why some people would be confused because there's a lot of misinformation on the web presented as "the facts" or whatever. Some stuff that is being used to debunk Wade's claims for example dont actually debunk anything other than tell the same story from a different point of view aka Wade's ex girlfriend coming out and saying she thinks he's lying because "She never saw them sleeping together." or whatever.

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I think the mods should handle that based on each question. Even when evidence supports my stance on something I might still ask questions to confirm that it's true. That way I'm not personally spreading misinformation. I'm not sure why so many people here are against this or think that it means you're taking the opposite stance.

If I'm debating with someone outside of Reset Era about the inappropriate shit that MJ has done, I want to make sure I can back up the examples I give. So yeah, I might ask for proof so that I know the things I say are factual and I don't spread any misinformation. It makes my argument look weaker if I start stating things that aren't true.

 

[SpookySkeleton]

Yeah, it's all a big hazy mess. You're going to have different sides as he was such a big worldwide star, with people giving different info with what is available to them and how they view things.

Michael Jackson threads are going to be a headache for people no matter what you believe unless some decree is given by God himself giving an official ruling. I don't know how any thread on him can come to a safe ending until that, unless somehow discussion on him is banned totally.

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lol you aren't fooling anyone.

 

[Spinluck]

Oh boy. Another black man bites the dust. The 2010s have not been kind to the legacy of Black male stars. Bill Cosby, Michael Jackson, and I could have sworn there was one more.

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Afrika Bambaataa too.

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Hopefully Prince's legacy holds up.

If MJ were alive now I'm pretty sure he'd wish he were dead. His enablers knew all along and it sucks at one point in time knowing I defended this monster.

 

[Deleted member 32374]

so we don't know if he bought this for a kid or a woman?

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I'm sure this has been answered but if you're not up to speed, which is fine, this matches perfectly with a story retold in the new michael jackson documentary. Long story short, he was there buying the wedding ring for the boy. These media reports on the incident had been forgotten for about 30 years but someone dug them out and there it is on video.

The innocence of everyone involved, the employee, to security, to the media (our 'friend' o'l Bill there, lol, stay fucked :) ) is just, sad. Fuck, be careful of meeting your heroes people.

 

[Geode]

The most recent Last Podcast on the Left episode of Side Stories also made it even more obvious that he's guilty. Marcus read some of the arguments MJ defenders make and debunked it easily, e.g. the FBI not filing charges. Yeah, they didn't file charges but they found VHS tapes with labels such as "Michael's Neverland Favorites: All Boys, Vol. 1."

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When I read this I had to look it up, because I've never heard of it and two if it was true why wasn't something done about it. I could only find one link about it (that was a more reputable source than Daily Mail) in the quick search I did.

In October 1995, the U.S. Customs Service asked the FBI to review a VHS videotape labeled "Michael Jackson's Neverland Favorites An All Boy Anthology" as part of a child pornography investigation. The recording was of such poor quality that investigators appear to have been unable to determine what was on it.

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I don't know what it means, but take it however you like.

 

[Stryder]

"with a 12 year old friend"

The 80s was a different world. Wow

 

[gamerman]

Threads like this always leave me confused. Not to say I think MJ is completely innocent because the stuff he himself has said he did was definitely messed up but I still can't bring myself to 100% believe he molested children even though in the documentary both people looked very genuine and I see no reason as to why they would make anything up. I guess ultimately it doesn't matter what I think since MJ is dead now but it is frustrating that it seems like everyone else can be so convinced but for some reason, I can't get there one way or the other myself.

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I will say I don't think anybody would want to be as big as Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson didn't live a normal life and it's very hard to make sense of all the contradictory rumors about his life. There are an equal amount of people who believe he molested kids and others who believe he was chemically castrated by his father to preserve his voice. https://people.com/music/michael-jackson-chemically-castrated-by-joe-jackson-conrad-murray-claims/

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

Fucking disgusting predator.

 

[Agnostic]

I had no idea Sheryl Crow was a backup singer for MJ. I wouldn't want my named tossed around to deflect from a creep buying a wedding ring for a child.

 

[sleepnaught]

Dude had cardboard cut outs of child actors throughout his house IIRC, among so much other evidence. You certainly didnt need this video or the documentary to help you come to that conclusion. It's been obvious for years.

 

[Deleted member 5127]

Everything keeps adding up and points to him being a paedophile.

I feel sorry for the victims that there are still so many people defending him, I haven't seen the documentary yet but I'll try to do it this week.

 

[riotous]

Even his excuse is just flat out bizarre; why would he take a 12 year old boy to shop for wedding rings for some secret fiancé in the first place?

It is as ridiculous as many of the other excuses people bought for his behavior. Mass delusion.

 

[Powdered Egg]

They should ask Crow about this.

 

[low-G]

Yeah the documentary definitely lays a lot of things bare. I just started watching it but there's a lot of shit, mainly footage, where you can see the puzzle pieces put together.

So if you haven't seen the documentary or were in a position of comparatively extreme ignorance, I'd say there's a lot there you probably didn't expect to learn.

 

[Deleted member 21326]

Wasent his sister the first one to calll him out?

Anyways its absolutely disgusting. Child grooming and abuse :(

 

[Lulu]

So basically, these threads are for the sole purpose of pages of posters saying the same thing and any anyone who even remotely dsagrees should be banned?

There are certainly people arguing in bad faith but what you're saying is a bit much. You're basically saying this thread should be bait to ban people who disagree with you.

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I know you like to pretend to be an ally but you sus as fuck for continually going to bat for ya boy.

 

[-JD-]

Rolex rings are pretty damn expensive, and James Safechuck had a whole box full of them. It's a pretty silly accusation to even bring up the idea that he purchased them after the fact because it'd be prohibitively expensive to do so and also, it'd wouldn't be hard to trace backwards to point of purchase since they are high-ticket items.

That and his accounting of those shopping trips with Michael, the secret girlfriend that seemingly NO ONE knows about...I know some of ya'll are "just asking questions" but man, a lot of these details do add up and point one way. Just sayin.

 

[El Bombastico]

So basically, these threads are for the sole purpose of pages of posters saying the same thing any anyone who even remotely dsagrees should be banned?

There are certainly people arguing in bad faith but what you're saying is a bit much. You're basically saying this thread should be bait to ban people who disagree with you.

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Bruh, just stick to Star Wara threads.

 

[Ronabo]

I remember when that footage first aired. A friend of mine joked that he was probably buying the ring for the boy.

 

[KamenRiderEra]

As a brazilian I always thought that the pedophilia of MJ was widely known.......

 

[Digital Dinosaur]

I have always honestly felt a large amount of the defense of Michael Jackson rose not just out of fans being in denial, but having the sense that whatever was really going on, Jackson was massively screwed up by his childhood and abuse by his family in the form of his father. For many it is difficult to flip on Jackson and think he was simply evil.

I've never had any doubt that Michael Jackson had a messed up head and absolutely did things around children an adult should never do. This footage being so old and out in public is a perfect example. The question has only ever been exactly what did he do.

 

[scitek]

John Motherfuckin' Tesh

 

[Jesse_and_the_rippers]

I think something a lot of people don't quite get is that the allegation isn't that Michael Jackson just molested children. Like, I think that puts images into peoples minds of someone who hates children, that children reflexively fear, where they hate themselves and the abuse instant.

The claims against Michael Jackson is that he groomed and molested children. The grooming is specifically a huge part of the allegations about him. I think people don't know what grooming is. He, essentially, had romantic relationships with these children. He seduced them. They were in love with him, both mentally and physically. They even say so in the documentary. They thought much of the abuse "felt good."

So when people are like "why didn't these guys come forward earlier?" They're psychological messes. Do you know how fucked up coming to grips that would be? These are guys who identify as straight men, they have children and families. It's still 2019. Of course it'll take decades for some of these victims to come to terms with what happened to them. Both guys say they still miss MJ to a degree.

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Excellent post.

 

[Deleted member 19003]

Wasent his sister the first one to calll him out?

Anyways its absolutely disgusting. Child grooming and abuse :(

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I remember a lot of people bashing La Toya and calling her crazy back in the 90s. She was actually telling the truth the entire time.

 

[uzipukki]

Yiiiiiikes.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Bruh, just stick to Star Wara threads.

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What a great response. I can see why you purposefully ignored me in the box office thread when called out on nonsense.

 

[Megawarrior]

This is extremely disturbing.

I'm glad I grew up when Janet Jackson was unstoppable in the late mid 90s-early 2000s so I never cared for MJ and never will. He always looked like a white diana ross to me which creeped me tf out. Even at 13, I knew something about him wasn't right and how most his fans are almost...cult like.

 

[lenovox1]

I remember a lot of people bashing La Toya and calling her crazy back in the 90s. She was actually telling the truth the entire time.

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The entire time. And she didn't have to go and do any of it, and it has had an immeasurable effect on her life and career to this day.

(The stories that Janet and LaToya could probably tell as the youngest two in the house with Michael...)

 

[iamsgod]

I could see smoke coming out of all of the windows but I'm still going to ask if that house is on fire.

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I mean, it could be from steamed clam

 

[lenovox1]

They should ask Crow about this.

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I don't think she ever had anything more than a working relationship with Jackson.

Paste: You mentioned Don Henley as an inspiration early in your career. Who else have you learned from by touring with them and watching them night after night?
Crow: Before I ever got a record deal, I had the good fortune of touring with Michael Jackson as a backup singer. Then, after that, I toured with Don and it was really a very effective case study in different styles of touring. With Michael, that was a huge traveling circus of people. He didn't really fraternize with the audience too much and every night's show was always exactly the same… almost like a Broadway production. Then, touring with somebody like Don, he would spend all of his time with us and we laughed together and we would go eat dinner together and we would have that familial experience.

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[Soul Skater]

Wasent his sister the first one to calll him out?

Anyways its absolutely disgusting. Child grooming and abuse :(

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Holy shit

 

[El Bombastico]

What a great response. I can see why you purposefully ignored me in the box office thread when called out on nonsense.

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Friendo, if you think stanning for a pedophile is at all comparable to talking about a fucking science fiction film, you REALLY need to check yourself.