Grooming means establishing a relationship with a child and or their family for the expressed purpose of sexually abusing them. That's the definition of grooming. As I've stated I don't deny that MJ established a relationship with the child and or their family, that's an objective fact that all sides have admitted to. However it's not an objective fact that he sexually abused these kids, it's opinion people have. And it's a very reasonable opinion. One I probably slightly lean towards. But it's not a fact. If it were a fact then MJ would have been imprisoned and or his estate would currently be bankrupt from the lawsuits these individuals have brought against it. So saying he "groomed" kids is not a "fact" like you stated.
As for the second point about the comment you bolded. I meant sexual abuse. I thought that was obvious but I'll accept it was poor wording on my part for not make that extremely clear. I say I thought it was obvious since I don't think a single child has simply accused MJ of just "abusing" them outside sexually. Has a child ever come forward and said "MJ didn't sexually abuse me but he did abuse me in other ways"? I've personally never heard anything to that effect but maybe you you enlighten me if you have. The discussion about MJ and "abuse" has always at least included if not only focused on the sexual aspect. But I never ever defended his sleeping with kids as you previously stated I did. That was an outright lie and you've quoted nothing here that states I said it was OK for him to sleep with kids.
So yes you did starman both of your points against me and the fact you can't see that shows you don't want to have a good faith discussion. And no doubt even after I've totally clarified my points here again you'll still resort to strawmaning. I hope you prove me wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.
You seem to be conflating "grooming" with "proof that he sexually abused children". You do realize you can groom without ever committing sexual assault right? It's about
intent.
So, let me ask you then. Do you think a grown man, who admitted to sleeping alone with strange children
didn't have a sexual motivation in doing so? Show me one, single case of a man who develops inappropriate relationships with children and sleeps, in the same bed with them, alone (after convincing the parents to provide access to their children via gifts and persuasion), without any sexual intent (someone who was already proven to be in possession of sexually explicit and nude child images). I'll wait.
Let's look up an extended description of grooming:
To establish a good relationship with a child and the child's family, child groomers might do several things: They might try to gain the child's or parents' trust by befriending them, with the goal of easy access to the child.
[7][8][9] A trusting relationship with the family means the child's parents are less likely to believe potential accusations.
[7] Child groomers might look for
opportunities to have time alone with the child, which can be done by offering to babysit; the groomers may also
invite the child for sleepovers, for opportunistic bed sharing
So you're really gunna sit there and tell me this isn't black and white grooming?
He admitted to doing this exact act on camera. The above description describes what MJ did, exactly, without having any proof that he actually
committed illegal sexual acts.
Now, to your accusation that I lied about what you said. Your claim:
But I never ever defended his sleeping with kids as you previously stated I did. That was an outright lie and you've quoted nothing here that states I said it was OK for him to sleep with kids.
Your post in question:
As others kids have stated they slept with MJ and state he never sexually abused them, so it's clear that MJ sleeping with kids it's not a slam dunk for him abusing them
This is
absolutely a defense of MJ sleeping with children. You're excusing it as not being clear abuse when it is. Full stop.
So, if you wanna amend this to "he abused children, but it's not proven that he sexually abused them", I'll wait.