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SnatcherHunter

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
13,476
I just finished DMC (thank you gamepass) once again. I always liked this game thanks to the deep gameplay. The way NT implemented the weapons and ability to do combos was addicting IMO.

I know why many hated this game. As much as I can defend this game, it has a lot of problems and having an unlikable Dante is not helping the matter.

I think Capcom wanted a new direction with the series? After a problematic DMC4, they wanted to try something new.

Who do we blame for trying to change DMC to gravitate to a western audience? Both Capcom and Ninja Theory are credited under Story. However, I want to say Ninja Theory was just following the directive they had under Capcom.

It didn't work according to the masses even though it did receive great reviews.


Finishing the game once again, can we all agree NT did an outstanding job with its level design? I mean, the whole limbo idea was pretty interesting and it allow for some fun levels.


Who can hate this?

Skip to 3:40


When the world flips upside down was just creative genius IMO.

Who can forget Bob Barbas? The boss fight was incredibly fun.
235.jpg


Even down to the clever way they played the scene from a helicopter news anchor POV.
SomberThisFeline-size_restricted.gif



How about the Nightclub level with John Wick 2 type of OST in the background?



Seeing the wavelengths of an audio mix going up and down synced with the music on the walls was something else.

I can go on.
Ultimately, DMC gets a lot of hate for the right reasons. But, it is unfortunate if we forget what NT did with the gameplay and design of the game.

I be more than happy if DMC5 takes a few pages from it when it comes to the levels.

Thoughts??

P.S. I replayed it with old school DMC dante costume. It helps.
 
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RROCKMAN

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,817
Why are you capitalising dmc? You should do that if you're talking about the whole series, not this game.
 

Gilver

Banned
Nov 14, 2018
3,725
Costa Rica
Its DmC differentiating it is very important. But yes its a good game but the combat is not as good as 4 and they gave Vergil a fedora so no thanks.
 

Odesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,536
DmC's level design was among the best in the industry overall. It's one of the areas the game was plain better than the mainline games - the environments were not only visually incredibly inventive, but the platforming was intuitive and fun, there were a ton of ideas like the one OP talks about and, most importantly, at no point did I have to run through the whole game again backwards!

Too often, when talking about Character Action games, people completely ignore anything but the core fighting system. It's the most important part, no question. But the best fighting system can still make for a less than perfect game game if it gets utilized in boring levels and disrupted by terrible puzzles and backtracking.
 

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,036
Yah, loved some of the boss fights and levels in the game. It was gorgeous.
 

DrMoguera

Member
Oct 27, 2017
432
I never really cared for it, no. I like that the other games had cohesive areas that felt like they had a presence and personality to them. Too much of the reboot's level design falls into haphazardly placed platforms floating in space and obnoxious lightshows. The world largely feels like an afterthought in the reboot, which gets kind of funny by the time you end up more or less massacring the entire city by killing Mundus and unleashing all the demons and no one seems to care about that. Because you spend most of your time in an alternate dimension and there seems to be a huge apathy to the world it's supposed to be in there's no real impact to the place or anything that happens in it. Already Redgrave City in DMC5 is more memorable as a place than anything I've seen in the reboot.
 

gitrektali

Member
Feb 22, 2018
3,187
DmC had fantastic level design and art. No denying that. I liked the game too.

I'm a bit underwhelmed by what I've seen in DMC5 in that regard. Everything seems bland-ish. Roofs, streets, office buildings, what not. I hope they have some creative shit in there that we haven't seen yet.
 

Arttemis

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
6,195
Title should say DmC, not DMC.

The dynamic level design is 100% the best thing about the game. I didn't enjoy the dual-trigger control scheme at all, though, which put a giant damper on my fun.
 

Palazzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,006
Bob Barbas's fight is weirdly overrated. It's great visually but it is totally paper thin in terms of mechanics; it's like a slightly more developed Crash Bandicoot boss. No way he's even in the top ten or fifteen DMC bosses.
 

RumbleHumble

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,128
Loved these aspects, a little less enthralled by the Dante/Vergil lore, but the demon world/"They Live" stuff was great.
 

rahji

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,558
The level design was fantastic yes. There are a lot of unique setpieces. I hope DMCV can keep up with that.
 

AlexFlame116

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2017
23,177
Utah
I freaking love DmC and will always praise it. Sure it has some faults (too much unnecessary swearing being the least of it), but I desperately wished that a DmC 2 would have been made. Even though the chances are slim to none now, I'm happy that DMC V is at least taking some inspiration from it.

Though I'd love to see a Nephilim Dante outfit for Nero as DLC in the future.
 

Gilver

Banned
Nov 14, 2018
3,725
Costa Rica
DmC's level design was among the best in the industry overall. It's one of the areas the game was plain better than the mainline games - the environments were not only visually incredibly inventive, but the platforming was intuitive and fun, there were a ton of ideas like the one OP talks about and, most importantly, at no point did I have to run through the whole game again backwards!

Too often, when talking about Character Action games, people completely ignore anything but the core fighting system. It's the most important part, no question. But the best fighting system can still make for a less than perfect game game if it gets utilized in boring levels and disrupted by terrible puzzles and backtracking.
People tend to overrate the level design from this game a lot, its extremely linear with some parts having 2-3 paths that go to the same place very quickly nothing to write home about. The visual aesthetic is very good but the level layout is far from being impressive even if its better than the old games.
 

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
It's a wildly imaginative spin on the series, and the gameplay is much more accessible and streamlined, so there's plenty of reasons to love it.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,261
I really liked the idea of the morphing levels and how everything breaks apart in the demon world. Also very satisfying feeling when you can partly manipulate the environment
 

[Sigma]

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
676
Good on presentation, not that great to play. Boss fights were trash. And combos were way too easy and overpowering. Staying suspended took no effort and you could just abuse it to the fif power and along with shitty A.I. Im not a fan. Sorry.
 
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Oct 29, 2017
4,515
UK
Inafune making Capcom try to go more Western really hurt everything.

It's an alright action game. It is but very forgettable. I only remembered a lot of the actual game replaying it. I remembered the nightclub stage and the Bob fight.

The combo depth is real shallow. All they did was give Dante a dodge, remove an attack/action button and turn it into a launcher. The grapple is just a poor man's snatch. It isn't worth replaying because you get S ranks without even trying. It reviewed well because it doesn't take time to get good at the game, the game already makes you good. There's no style in DmC, except where it doesn't count. Plus There is no real good enemy types. The only one I'd even consider good is Drekavac.
And the level design is pretty, but that is it. It doesn't really do anything special, except look really pretty. Bayonetta is a good example of doing set pieces in an action game, I don't think DmC is a good example of it.

But yes, the world does look pretty.
 

Sesha

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,808
They were great concepts, I agree. Not so great in execution. And that summarizes DmC pretty well for me. Full of great concepts, but execution only gets a C+ at best. Except the combat. The combat is A+ for a Western-developed game, and a solid B+ amongst action games in general.

Speaking of combat, I'm disappointed that DMC5 essentially borrows nothing from it. Not so much the grand concepts like the Angel/Demon system and lack of lock-on. That was pure faff. But moves like Ricoshot and Inverse Rainstorm, pause combos carrying over when you switch weapons, and the weapon shining to indicate when you could execute a pause combo were great, and examples of stuff I wish carried over. Alas.

I think Capcom wanted a new direction with the series? After a problematic DMC4, they wanted to try something new.

What was problematic about it?
 

Steroyd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
691
Who do we blame for trying to change DMC to gravitate to a western audience?

Keiji Inafune if I'm remembering correctly.

Maybe not to DMC directly but he had such a big boner for westernisation, and wanted to take Capcom in that direction while he was at the company because it was the way for the company to move forward and the Japanese way of making games is trash - Steroyd's extremely loose paraphrasing.
 
OP
OP
SnatcherHunter

SnatcherHunter

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
13,476
They were great concepts, I agree. Not so great in execution. And that summarizes DmC pretty well for me. Full of great concepts, but execution only gets a C+ at best.



What was problematic about it?

Wasn't it confirmed the development of the game was a headache for Capcom? Which is the reason why the game literally repeats all levels with Dante.
 

Deleted member 3815

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,633
Even down to the clever way they played the scene from a helicopter news anchor POV.
SomberThisFeline-size_restricted.gif


As someone who is profoundly deaf and relies on subtitles to follow what is being said, that scene is just down right garbage.

There is no way I would be able to focus on the game play and read the subtitles at the same time, so I would not call that clever but an ablest game play design.
 

NDWest14

Banned
Jan 8, 2019
141
It got hate for all the wrong reasons.

Honestly I think it's the 2nd best in the series, the combat was smooth as hell, the story was great, acting was fantastic and limbo was insane

DMC3
DmC
DMC
DMC4
My coffee this morning
My lunch yesterday
The weather 2 days ago when it was literally 6 degrees (-12 with windchill)
DMC2
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,463
The problem with the limbo design is that it always just turned into goofy grapple platforming. It was a cool idea but almost nothing interesting was actually done with it.
 
OP
OP
SnatcherHunter

SnatcherHunter

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
13,476
As someone who is profoundly deaf and relies on subtitles to follow what is being said, that scene is just down right garbage.

There is no way I would be able to focus on the game play and read the subtitles at the same time, so I would not call that clever but an ablest game play design.

To be honest.. I play with subtitles on. I didn't read or even paid attention to anything being said in that particular scene. I just admired the POV from a news anchor. It was my first time I got a SSS because I can finally see around Dante. Lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,568

Steroyd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
691
It didn't sell enough despite being the highest selling game in the series.

That was Capcom in a nutshell, I think Resi 6 sold a tonne of copies yet they were still dissapointed in its performance.

DMC4's biggest problem was that it was half a game, there was no need for a reboot, it just needed to be complete.
 

Gilver

Banned
Nov 14, 2018
3,725
Costa Rica
My personal biggest problem with this game is that they resorted to the bad boss design for a series known for its bosses. The Mundus fight is insultingly bad and ugly design wise resorting to the huge big arm wind-up that stays in place a few seconds so you can combo his hand because he is big and stupid even tho he is the main villain of the game. The big fetus is my favorite but the first and second bosses are super forgettable and brain dead gameplay wise.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
The upside down level and this boss fight is what I remember the most from this game.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
Keiji Inafune if I'm remembering correctly.

Maybe not to DMC directly but he had such a big boner for westernisation, and wanted to take Capcom in that direction while he was at the company because it was the way for the company to move forward and the Japanese way of making games is trash - Steroyd's extremely loose paraphrasing.
Basically, yeah. You're not wrong. Inafune pulled Capcom toward western devs to develop or reboot franchises, and the results continuously fell short. And so many fell for his "Japanese dev sucks and only I can save it" spiel that the backlash he asked for didn't come until MN9 released and he couldn't hide behind the shield of everyone blaming faceless Capcom anymore.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Am I missing something? Falling through the surface of water to find yourself in an upside down world is an "amazing concept"? I've lost count of the media that has done it before (KH1's intro, for example).
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,260
Unlikable Dante? Dante doesn't have much of a personality in any of the games. He's just cocky. I didn't see much of a deviation in DmC. I think it was the character art design that put some people off.
 
OP
OP
SnatcherHunter

SnatcherHunter

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
13,476
Am I missing something? Falling through the surface of water to find yourself in an upside down world is an "amazing concept"? I've lost count of the media that has done it before (KH1's intro, for example).

Lol
It was not the first time we seen this. Even Ninja Gaiden pulled it on the original Xbox.

I just loved the way they pulled it off in DmC.