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B.C.

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Sep 28, 2018
1,240
Yah we do.

Is not armchair critics, just because you cant see it does not make it wrong.

Selling a console allows Microsoft to charge for online, gamepass and take 30% cut.

On pc, they can sell you gamepass and have to compete with steam, epicagames and gog for the 30% cut.

Whitch option is the better option?

Just because they are trying to reach as many gamers as they can does not mean that the console stop being the best option for max revenue.
It actually does though. Static boxes are out, especially next gen. We'll have them (and more powerful) but to pretend its solely about hardware to drive revenue for software and services is super basic thinking. Things have changed quite a bit.

I thought this being a gaming enthusiast board, this would be more obvious. But, alas...
 

tzare

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,145
Catalunya
Lol, they aren't going to say no to selling 100 million next gen Xbox systems but they are braodeing themselves to be much more than just Xbox hardware.
Just like the others, Google, Sony and even 3rd parties are offering their sub based deals. It will be even a more competitive space than just dealing with Sony and Nintendo.
 
Jan 20, 2019
10,681
It actually does though. Static boxes are out, especially next gen. We'll have them (and more powerful) but to pretend its solely about hardware to drive revenue for software and services is super basic thinking. Things have changed quite a bit.

I thought this being a gaming enthusiast board, this would be more obvious. But, alas...

Uh?

No, hardware does not mean is the only option to generate revenue.

But hey, if hardware is not that important, im sure Microsoft will sell the next Xbox at a profit

If is not that important, at least make some money with the ones selling.
 

failgubbe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
105
Sweden
Uh?

No, hardware does not mean is the only option to generate revenue.

But hey, if hardware is not that important, im sure Microsoft will sell the next Xbox at a profit

If is not that important, at least make some money with the ones selling.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh? Both Sony and MS sold their latest consoles almost instantly after launch at a profit(excluding the X and maybe PRO i dont know) so what does that say about the current gen if we go by your post
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
Nothing Xbox can do about this right now. They are in second place thus get second place games. COD > Battlefield, Red Dead > Fallout, Destiny > Anthem

I agree with the first sentence, but not sure about the second.

Battlefield 1 (also Xbox partnership) was within a touching distance of IW. Fallout 4 was massive (multi million seller and GOTY candidate according to the garbage press). Anthem was supposed to be the next big thing.

On paper, those deals were good. All of those games were supposed to be desirable, even if they aren't going to beat COD.

I don't think that any of those games undersold because of the competition, they were just terrible, something you might even want to distance your brand when the game is being roasted online and labeled as the biggest failure of 2018.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,952
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh? Both Sony and MS sold their latest consoles almost instantly after launch at a profit so what does that say about the current gen if we go by your post
Almost selling at a profit is still selling at a loss, so that's a poor counter. The XB1 was probably sold at a big loss (not PS3 big) when they pulled Kinect too.
 

Daddy JeanPi

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,036
Microsoft lost out on Mobile, maps etc because they kept focusing on winning short term battles VS the long term.

They've learnt their lesson now. Nobody at MS cares if Games lost some money now, as long as there's a long term forecast showing a much bigger slice of the pie down the line.

Finally, a revenue drop doesn't really mean money is being lost.
Exactly this.
 
Jan 20, 2019
10,681
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh? Both Sony and MS sold their latest consoles almost instantly after launch at a profit so what does that say about the current gen if we go by your post

The ps4 and the xbox was sold at a loss, no ideia about the pro or the x.

What was telling was that hardware is important, if it wasn't, they hold sell then at profit or at a bigger profit.
 

Bioshocker

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,201
Sweden
48% is a lot (I doubt PS4 is even close to that), but seeing more revenue from subscriptions is promising. I sure would like them to disclose how many Game Pass subscribers we are.
 

bane833

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,530
Things have changed quite a bit.
No they haven't and no amount of Microsoft PR is going to change that. Someone entering an ecosystem via purchasing a console will make Microsoft way way more money on average than someone who buys the odd Microsoft published game on Steam or has a Gamepass sub on PC.

Microsoft makes money by:

1. Selling the console itself
2. Selling peripherals like controllers
3. Selling their exclusive games for 100% profit
4. Selling third party games and take their 30% cut
5. Xbox Live Gold
6. Gamepass
7. All kinds of microtransactions (which again give 30% if by third party publishers)
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
I mean Nintendo and Playstation make the most in gaming revenue currently and they both are selling gaming hardware in order to achieve that. Not sure if just adding services to more platforms will always equal more revenue.

Money is not made on hardware. In fact many times the profit margins are razor thin or even sold at a loss it is a means to get you to buy those games and services.

Yah we do.

Is not armchair critics, just because you cant see it does not make it wrong.

Selling a console allows Microsoft to charge for online, gamepass and take 30% cut.

On pc, they can sell you gamepass and have to compete with steam, epicagames and gog for the 30% cut.

Whitch option is the better option?

Just because they are trying to reach as many gamers as they can does not mean that the console stop being the best option for max revenue.

So in your eyes, Xbox plus PC plus Mobile is worse than just Xbox? Of course they also want to sell hardware but again it's not their only revenue stream. You are acting like they will be lucky to sell 20 million next gen Xbox systems. We have no idea and it will not have the burden of a DRM set top TV box that is $100 more than the PS5 with less power. You act like people just stay in their lanes and don't move. They are investing in more studios so where does this downfall of Xbox next gen come from?

Just like the others, Google, Sony and even 3rd parties are offering their sub based deals. It will be even a more competitive space than just dealing with Sony and Nintendo.

No doubt.
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,145
Didn't Microsoft just do exactly this? They threw money at the Xbox by allowing seven (was it seven?) studio acquisitions the past year.
They also rolled out a subscription service that will propel both PC and console software distribution. They've also been clear about game pass being at the forefront of their model rather than hardware. They're changing direction towards software. Something MS has some experience with.
 
Jan 20, 2019
10,681
Money is not made on hardware. In fact many times the profit margins are razor thin or even sold at a loss it is a means to get you to buy those games and services.



So in your eyes, Xbox plus PC plus Mobile is worse than just Xbox? Of course they also want to sell hardware but again it's not their only revenue stream. You are acting like they will be lucky to sell 20 million next gen Xbox systems. We have no idea and it will not have the burden of a DRM set top TV box that is $100 more than the PS5 with less power. You act like people just stay in their lanes and don't move. They are investing in more studios so where does this downfall of Xbox next gen come from?



No doubt.

You are confusing the posts.

The only think i said was the Microsoft makes more money on a costumer selling a console that on pc.

At no point did i said anything else.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
Tell that Nintendo and Sony. Do you really think The Slim at 300, the Pro at 400 and the Switch at 300 don't make a shitload of money right now?

Eventually it makes money and Nintendo has always been headstrong about their pricing. That does not make it the norm and software plus services is where the real money is made. Plus Nintendo would rather just pull WiiU systems off the shelves than to lose money and sell it for $99. They are very controlling of their prices, just look at how hard it is to find Nintendo games for a decent price even months or years later. Meanwhile you can get one of the best games not even a year old (Spiderman) for $20.

You are confusing the posts.

The only think i said was the Microsoft makes more money on a costumer selling a console that on pc.

At no point did i said anything else.

Last I checked there is a new Xbox coming next year and I expect it to do better than the Xbox One.
 

Kilgore

Member
Feb 5, 2018
3,538
Tell that Nintendo and Sony. Do you really think The Slim at 300, the Pro at 400 and the Switch at 300 don't make a shitload of money right now?
No, he's saying that selling 3 games a company can make more profit than selling one console, and Microsoft can sell games without selling consoles. Console sales plummeting is not good, and in fact nobody is saying that is not bad, the article and some people say that there are positive signs on the quarter despite Xbox being severely down in sales.
 

Welfare

Prophet of Truth - You’re my Numberwall
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,912
Second place has nothing to do with marketing deals, unless you're bidding for outright exclusivity. A marketing deal on Xbox won't stop devs from selling their games on PS4.

Truth be told, Microsoft has been extremely incompetent in securing these marketing deals. They'd be in a much better place if they had secured Destiny rights and not made the foolish mistake of letting the COD marketing rights go.
COD and FIFA moved to PS after it was clear they would benefit more from their marketing than Xbox. Those are clear moves to first place.
 

Thatguy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,207
Seattle WA
They're doing a next gen console. It's already announced. So I'm not sure what the purpose of the article is. Nobody is concerned about Xbox.
 

Governergrimm

Member
Jun 25, 2019
6,536
Second place has nothing to do with marketing deals, unless you're bidding for outright exclusivity. A marketing deal on Xbox won't stop devs from selling their games on PS4.

Truth be told, Microsoft has been extremely incompetent in securing these marketing deals. They'd be in a much better place if they had secured Destiny rights and not made the foolish mistake of letting the COD marketing rights go.
I agree they would have been in much better shape had their funding not been cut off at the knees early on this gen. Terry tried to strangle the division so they've had and still have a long way to go. These numbers aren't good but the complaint for the longest time has been they need content to be relevant. They have finally shown signs of life and are altering their structure for the long term.

They need content - they have acquired/built/ expanded 15 studios.

They need content now! - they have suffered all gen for pushing games out unfinished and unpolished

They need exclusive content now, not in the future. - They buy exclusive content they sacks of shit for moneyhatting

They can't undo the past but to pretend like they there is no future for the division is pretty ridiculous
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
What's up this all those "MS is doing fine" articles?

Because they're doing extremely fine, with a > $1trn market valuation?


Yah we do.

Is not armchair critics, just because you cant see it does not make it wrong.

Selling a console allows Microsoft to charge for online, gamepass and take 30% cut.

On pc, they can sell you gamepass and have to compete with steam, epicagames and gog for the 30% cut.

Whitch option is the better option?

Just because they are trying to reach as many gamers as they can does not mean that the console stop being the best option for max revenue.


1. One would have to be extremely naive to believe they're on a 70:30 split with Valve for their games on Steam. Valve already has a revenue based split scale to 80:20 for big publishers after a sales threshold is hit.

2. Yes, by selling fewer consoles, they miss out on Gold subs and accessories. But they gain access to a market that is tens of millions strong. And that market is in place from day one. Do you know how long it would take for a new console to hit 30 million users?

3. Gamepass Ultimate. Subscription service with a constant cash stream. Nuff said.
 

bane833

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,530
Eventually it makes money and Nintendo has always been headstrong about their pricing. That does not make it the norm and software plus services is where the real money is made. Plus Nintendo would rather just pull WiiU systems off the shelves than to lose money and sell it for $99. They are very controlling of their prices, just look at how hard it is to find Nintendo games for a decent price even months or years later. Meanwhile you can get one of the best games not even a year old (Spiderman) for $20.



Last I checked there is a new Xbox coming next year and I expect it to do better than the Xbox One.
2 out of three are making money with their consoles, so it's the norm to make money with your consoles. What happened one or two decades ago is completely irrelevant for the current situation.
No, he's saying that selling 3 games a company can make more profit than selling one console, and Microsoft can sell games without selling consoles. Console sales plummeting is not good, and in fact nobody is saying that is not bad, the article and some people say that there are positive signs on the quarter despite Xbox being severely down in sales.

I posted earlier why this is nonsense. You never only sell a console and nothing else. The console is always the gateway to more revenue.
 

tutomos

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,612
People need to stop with the false duality.

Selling less hardware doesn't mean they are doomed. On the flip side, have Game Pass and Xcloud now doesn't mean they will dominate the future.

I think MS is fine being second or even third place in some areas when the pie is big enough and growing like cloud or high-end gaming. They will have a chance to be number 1 in those areas. They will compete but just because they have money and have a lot going on doesn't mean they will win automatically. However we can judge them by the process not the end result, and so far they are doing some good things.
 

Heromanz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
I wonder how much money game pass loses a year. Also game streaming will not save them lol.
 

Kilgore

Member
Feb 5, 2018
3,538
2 out of three are making money with their consoles, so it's the norm to make money with your consoles. What happened one or two decades ago is completely irrelevant for the current situation.


I posted earlier why this is nonsense. You never only sell a console and nothing else. The console is always the gateway to more revenue.
And Microsoft will still selling consoles, but will also sell suscriptions, games and even perihealps on PC. The are planning to sell even controllers to use xCloud on cellphones lol. There are a lot of sources of revenue outside of consoles.
 

Dragoon

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
11,231
When MS bought Minecraft it had sold 54 million copies. It's now at 176 million and has become the best selling game of all time.

To say that most copies were already sold before they bought it isn't close to true.
Damn, that's actually pretty fucking amazing.

Would be interesting to know how much they made since their purchase.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
2 out of three are making money with their consoles, so it's the norm to make money with your consoles. What happened one or two decades ago is completely irrelevant for the current situation.


I posted earlier why this is nonsense. You never only sell a console and nothing else. The console is always the gateway to more revenue.

Microsoft can afford for the Xbox to not do as well, I don't think the same can be said of Sony and Nintendo. Nintendo pulled the WiiU rather quickly, then amalgamated console and portable into one, and Sony had to totally restructure itself as a company over the years. That doesn't mean hardwsare sales are not important to Microsoft, of course they are which is why they will continue to offer them. However their investments in other areas, namely Azure, will pay dividends for years to come and gaming will be part of that.
 

tutomos

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,612
COD and FIFA moved to PS after it was clear they would benefit more from their marketing than Xbox. Those are clear moves to first place.

That's wasn't the narrative for COD. The narrative was MS choose to focus the money on other games like Battlefield and timed exclusives like RoTR instead of COD. At least that's what I've read from insiders on this or another forum.
 
Feb 26, 2018
2,753

Deleted member 49804

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 21, 2018
1,868
Yah we do.

Is not armchair critics, just because you cant see it does not make it wrong.

Selling a console allows Microsoft to charge for online, gamepass and take 30% cut.

On pc, they can sell you gamepass and have to compete with steam, epicagames and gog for the 30% cut.

Whitch option is the better option?

Just because they are trying to reach as many gamers as they can does not mean that the console stop being the best option for max revenue.
They have to compete with Sony and Nintendo, too in the console world.
So PC is the better place for max revenue. Less investment needed and more money to be made.
There is a reason every publisher has their own store, but not their own console.
 
Jan 20, 2019
10,681
Because they're doing extremely fine, with a > $1trn market valuation?





1. One would have to be extremely naive to believe they're on a 70:30 split with Valve for their games on Steam. Valve already has a revenue based split scale to 80:20 for big publishers after a sales threshold is hit.

2. Yes, by selling fewer consoles, they miss out on Gold subs and accessories. But they gain access to a market that is tens of millions strong. And that market is in place from day one. Do you know how long it would take for a new console to hit 30 million users?

3. Gamepass Ultimate. Subscription service with a constant cash stream. Nuff said.

I never said that, what i said is that Microsoft makes more money from a costumer buying a console that on playing pc.

Never said that going to the pc market was a wrong ideia.
 

Deleted member 55421

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 29, 2019
612
If you go out and buy I don't know how many new game studios while at the end of a generation where consoles are selling less because people are waiting for the next one, it kind of makes sense that revenue is going to go down.

Xbox itself is in no trouble.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
COD and FIFA moved to PS after it was clear they would benefit more from their marketing than Xbox. Those are clear moves to first place.

This is incorrect. Both moved to PS after MS failed to renew their marketing deals for both games.

I never said that, what i said is that Microsoft makes more money from a costumer buying a console that on playing pc.

Never said that going to the pc market was a wrong ideia.

Which is why they will continue to make and market home consoles.
 

tutomos

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,612
Gotta agree a console is still the best way to monetize for platform holders, especially with early adopters. Game Pass business model is still unproven and 3rd party publishers are not on board yet. This all could change but when you have more early adopters buying consoles then you are in good shape.
 

Deleted member 56752

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 15, 2019
8,699
It's fine because it's the end of a generation, because gaming as a whole has become even more popular somehow and because Microsoft is the richest tech company on earth with cloud services that complement a gaming initiative perfectly
 

Welfare

Prophet of Truth - You’re my Numberwall
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,912
I agree with the first sentence, but not sure about the second.

Battlefield 1 (also Xbox partnership) was within a touching distance of IW. Fallout 4 was massive (multi million seller and GOTY candidate according to the garbage press). Anthem was supposed to be the next big thing.

On paper, those deals were good. All of those games were supposed to be desirable, even if they aren't going to beat COD.

I don't think that any of those games undersold because of the competition, they were just terrible, something you might even want to distance your brand when the game is being roasted online and labeled as the biggest failure of 2018.
*Fallout 76. Fallout 4 was a great deal, but 76 was big gamble and underperformed massively.

And BF1 only got close to IW because it was the worst performing COD in a decade.

Any company would rather have COD, Red Dead, FIFA, or Destiny than whatever else is there.

That's wasn't the narrative for COD. The narrative was MS choose to focus the money on other games like Battlefield and timed exclusives like RoTR instead of COD. At least that's what I've read from insiders on this or another forum.

That sounds like the biggest load of shit ever. Microsoft got burned on Tomb Raider because Square announced the PC and PS4 release before November 2015, and you don't give up marketing for the biggest yearly release for the bi-yearly #2 FPS.

That's straight up incompetence if true. The money for the COD deal never got put into anything else on third party deals.
 

Godzilla24

Member
Nov 12, 2017
3,371
If Xbox is in trouble like some believe which they Arent, maybe Ms should consider acquiring even more studios and ips to make more exclusivesfor the Xbox platform. You hear that Microsoft. You have a Green light to purchase capcom square from and platinum. Lol
 

Euler.L.

Alt account
Banned
Mar 29, 2019
906
I feel like we are back at all the pre release spinning by the US press regarding Microsoft and Xbox
 

Welfare

Prophet of Truth - You’re my Numberwall
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,912
This is incorrect. Both moved to PS after MS failed to renew their marketing deals for both games.
Then it's a problem of budget, because why would Microsoft not renew if they could afford it? If Microsoft has to pay even more money for those deals, why would that be if not for their position in the market?

If they were let go intentionally, it's incompetence. If they couldn't afford it, there are only so many reasons before you just say it's because they aren't #1.
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,120
Limburg
So at what point does Xbox become a vanity brand maintained for an ecosystem? How unprofitable does it have to become? Sony looks poised to maintain dominance next gen. So I don't expect things will improve for MS even if Nextbox is more powerful than PS5.