(Forbes) Why You Saw 'Captain Marvel' And 'Wonder Woman' But Not 'Alita' And 'Tomb Raider'.

Old Man Spike

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,004
United States


Forbes Link

from Scott Mendelson

Excerpts from the article:
As if we needed any more proof, we now know that audiences will absolutely show up for a female-led comic book superhero movie. But what about everything else? The good news is that Marvel now knows that they really do have a Midas touch, that their brand is so aggressively popular and trusted that even a comparatively lesser effort like Captain Marvel, one based on a comparatively lesser-known character and sans any prior MCU introductions, can earn record-level box office. That means, as Avengers: Endgame gives way to Phase Four and whatever comes next, there is no excuse, none, zero, zilch, for not offering more superheroes who happen to represent almost every conceivable demographic.

[...]

We claim we want diverse multiplex fare, we see studies arguing that audiences crave diversity and inclusivity, and that diversity is a key to global box office profits. That makes sense since a movie like Girls Trip is going to be a demographically-specific event movie in a way that The Mummy is not. But the blow-out success of Captain Marvel, concurrently with the relative failures of Alita: Battle Angel, Greta, Happy Death Day 2U and Miss Bala, is yet another sign of a grim truth: Audiences embrace diversity when it's within something they already want to see.

They'll show up for a female-led action movie when it's within a "safe" comic book or fantasy universes like Lucasfilm's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story, DC Films' Wonder Woman or Marvel's Captain Marvel. But even while (correctly) arguing that it's okay that Captain Marvel is merely okay, we turn our noses at the likes of equally "just okay" female-led actioners like Alita (which, love it or hate it, plays a lot like Wonder Woman) or Mortal Engines. We'll obsess over the notion of a female Indiana Jones or a female James Bond and yet ignore Tomb Raider and Atomic Blonde.

[...]

The cruel irony of all of this is that Hollywood spent 15 years trying to make every white guy into the next Tom Cruise and they finally realized the value of trying instead to make the next Will Smith just as audiences began ditching the star vehicle and most non-event/grown-up movies in favor of Netflix and TV. They finally realized the value of making Michael B. Jordan or Gina Rodriguez into potential movie stars only for audiences to no longer care about movie stars. Hollywood is starting to give us what we claim to crave, but we've already found it elsewhere.

[...]

If we want more action movies like Captain Marvel, we need to show up for other action movies like Captain Marvel, even if they aren't quite as good or part of an established cinematic universe. Because here's the grim truth: You probably wouldn't have seen Captain Marvel this weekend if it wasn't part of an established comic book superhero universe.
This article falls in line with something I was thinking about recently, as I've kept all of my movie ticket stubs going back over 20 years. As soon as I was old enough to drive I saw lots of movies in theaters throughout the 90s and early 00s, but these days when you look at my stubs you'll see franchise after franchise with the occasional outlier like Alita. I'm less likely to take a chance on a movie that's unfamiliar now, and the studios know it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,239
I can't be the only one that saw all four of them. And I keep all my movie stubs too. My first was the first Harry Potter.
 

HeySeuss

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,828
Ohio
Alita looked like anime and scared people away. Tomb Raider looked like it was a wait for Netflix title
 

MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,761
TR was horrendous. Alita's lack of success is a real shame, it's a fantastic movie.
 

TheMango55

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,749
I rented Tomb Raider from Redbox if that counts.

It was bad. She was a bike messanger for like 20 minutes of the movie.
 

Deepwater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,994
Weird to use the failure of 2018 Tomb Raider as an example when 2001 Tomb Raider was successful enough to get a sequel (that was a failure)
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,985
As a woman:
Wonder Woman: Rented it and hated it
Captain Marvel: No interest. Done with superhero movies. Black Panther was the only recent one I liked out of what I saw.
Alita: Possible rental, need to do more research before making a decision
Tomb Raider: I heard the movie was shit so no.
 

Pankratous

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,166
It's almost as if people can tell if they are interested in a film judging from the trailers, and those latter two just weren't that interesting.
 

Spyder_Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,544
Alita and Tomb Raider aren't as good compared to WW and CM and you have the might of DC and Marvel compared to anime and video game which are more niche mediums.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,218
Presumably because Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel are parts of ongoing movie franchises and received significantly more marketing? As opposed to an adaptation of a manga that had low popular culture penetration in the West and a reboot video game movie.
 

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,085
Assassin’s Creed and Ready Player One are comparable to Tomb Raider and Alita and both did poorly
 

Phrozenflame500

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
1,993
i dont really know what the thesis is here. no im not more likely to see a bad or uninteresting movie because it has a female lead.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,402
I saw three of them, and didn't see Tomb Raider because I'm not dumb enough to pay theater ticket prices to see a videogame movie.

Until Detective Pikachu
 

overcast

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,359
Even if it’s mediocrity it’ll sell if marketed right or with brand behind it. Marvel is unstoppable at the moment. Videogame movies are historically unsuccessful and the ad campaign behind TR was not good. Alita is weird.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,890
Alita was always going to underperform because general audiences don't typically show up for sci-fi/cyber punk movies and the eyes were off putting for folks. Its the ( less good) 2019 version of Speed Racer.

Tomb Raider was just another bad video game adaptation that wasn't really doing anything new.

I sort of get the point of the article but he choose horrible examples.
 

ISWThunder

Member
Oct 30, 2017
429
“Captain Marvel, concurrently with the relative failures of Alita: Battle Angel, Greta, Happy Death Day 2U and Miss Bala, is yet another sign of a grim truth”

I’ve never even heard of two and the trailers for the other two looked bad.

Can’t we just relish the success of Captain Marvel and WW and not chalk their success up to the genre alone? Not like it’s easy to succeed as a DC movie and having a woman lead is the key to success.
 

overcast

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,359
i dont really know what the thesis is here. no im not more likely to see a bad or uninteresting movie because it has a female lead.
It extends further than that though. The point seems to be that audiences want to see specific movies right now in droves (MCU/comic movies are hot) and some other female led films essentially fall into bombs like any other movie.

It’s not super enlightening but there’s a point.
 

Book One

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,941
I don’t really get the point of framing these films that way.

The idea of diversity in film is better representation and opportunity, not that all the sudden that makes them box office successes.

I mean ‘people still have to want to see the movie’ isn’t some sort of surprise, is it?

The fact that women lead films can have both success and failure isn’t the point, it’s that there are women lead films being made, and that there can be successes there where once Hollywood seemed to believe that unlikely.
 

Garth2000

Member
Oct 27, 2017
169
I don't agree with this article. I don't see a movie because of who is in them, I see it because it's a movie that looks good to me (I loved wonder woman and captain Marvel).

Having a woman in a movie doesn't mean it has to be a hit. It just means that women have every right to be in a bad movie as anyone else.

Tomb Raider and atila just didn't look like they would appeal to me. That's all there is to it.
 

psychbat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,028
I only saw three of those he mentioned.. Mostly because of nostalgia and passing familiarity with the source material. I wasn't interested in Tomb Raider.
 

NoKisum

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,253
DMV Area, USA
Both Alita and Captain Marvel came out during weekends where I had to work at conventions that take up all of my free time, so I haven't seen either.

Didn't care for Tomb Raider, though.
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,251
Canada
Wait was their conclusion "People like diversity in movies they want to see. People don't watch movies they don't want to see."
 

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,716
I've only seen Captain Marvel and I loved it. Not seen the others but I did like the original two Tomb Raider movies. The new one adverts I saw didn't look as good as the original two TR movies.