(Forbes) Why You Saw 'Captain Marvel' And 'Wonder Woman' But Not 'Alita' And 'Tomb Raider'.

Jackie Chan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
885
If Alita is worse than Wonder Woman then I'll probably not see it.
Wonder Woman is a decent Marvel style Super Hero flick. It was competent all around, but imo it's extremely by the numbers.

Alita is an overly ambitious spectacle film that's kind of a mess in a lot of ways, but has a lot of heart for a blockbuster.

I'm pretty much in the target demographic for Alita (huge old school anime weeb), but even I was put off by the mediocre marketing campaign. I ended up seeing it due to good WoM, but it's pretty obvious why it was not a huge commercial hit here in the US.
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,932
Alita looked like generic shonen anime #587. And IDC for shonen. Tbf, I feel meh about all of the movies listed. Tend to be picky with any superhero related thing and TR always felt like Laura was a sex object and less a person.
 

Charamiwa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,201
I think he's right and seeing some people not willing to acknowledge his point even a little bit is telling. "People went to see what they were interested in" is a very shallow reading of the situation. Franchises and established IPs are stronger than ever and are cannibalizing everything around it. There is very little reason why a movie like Ant Man was more popular than say Mad Max other than it was safer and part of an established thing. There was nothing inherently more appealing about a superhero shrinking compared to a post apocalyptic non stop action film. Same with Captain Marvel which by all account is a solid movie and yet in the box office is disproportionally stronger than other solid female led blockbusters. Franchises and IP recognition supersede everything else when it comes to audience interest.
 

Aiustis

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,290
Cybertronic Purgatory
I only saw Captain Marvel in theaters. Wonder Woman was borrowed from the library and I didn't even like it
Alita creeped me out and there have Tomb Raider might have gotten me if it wasn't called Tomb Raider
 
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Absolute0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
275
I haven’t watch the other films but the reason I went to see Captain Marvel is because I’m highly invested in the MCU at this point and because Marvel consistently puts out movies that I enjoy watching. It’s as simple as that. I have no interest in seeing the other movies because I don’t care about TR or Alita, I’m not invested in th characters or stories the way I am with Marvel. MCU did a great job of getting me hooked so they can happily have my money anytime they drop a new film.
 

Stephen Home

Member
Dec 17, 2018
574
Alita is great. I sneaked in a screen and watched it again after Captain Marvel. The overworld is top tier. So much better than Captain Marvel's fake 90s. Only thing drag it down is the boyfriend guy.

I would go to bat for Alita.
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,932
People can smell the stink of video game and anime writing a mile away. Also Wonder Woman had everything going against it as a DC movie so it’s not exactly brand recognition either
Some anime have some of the best writing there is. See: Naoki Urasawa's Monster.
But I get being turned off in Alita's case. Screams generic fighting anime.
 

Baconmonk

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
3,328
I saw em all in theaters except Tomb Raider. Mostly because it looked and reviewed like a bad movie.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,939
I've seen WW only of those movies but Tomb Raider and Alita both look like straight up garbage. Not the hill to go to bat for this
 

iGeodude

Member
Oct 27, 2017
468
Alita looked interesting but ultimately the eyes creeped me out and I really enjoy anime. Seeing big eyes on a real person just seemed strange to me. It similar to how in realistic fantasy movies where they give certain creatures big eyes to make them appear more strange.
 

Sesha

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,815
I saw WW and Alita. Checkmate!

On a serious note, I think it's unfair to say people wouldn't embrace Alita's diversity bc it was unfamiliar when the title character is CG and her race is ambiguous. Not to mention the fact that most of the supporting cast is white.
 

OsakaDon

Member
Oct 29, 2017
438
Osaka, Japan
Hmm, how will we crack this rubric?

One was a video game movie, so already that sends alarms off and for good reason.
The other had a bug eyed nightmare inducing character in a movie that was screaming "I'm anime".

No surprise people weren't interested.
 

Mystic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,398
I saw 3 of these movies in theater. I watched Tomb Raider on HBO. I wanted to see it in the theater but never got the time.
 

The Stig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
445
Tomb Raider looked a bit shit, and Alita had the eyes.

Which is a shame in Alita's case because they totally work after 5-10 minutes with the character, but goddamn were they off putting in the trailers. I was this close to skipping it because of that, but I'm so glad I didn't. Lovely movie, if a bit flawed.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,002
lol, somehow I just knew it was going to be written by Scott Mendelson.

Thanks for stating the obvious, Captain Obvious. Captain Marvel is raking the money because it's part of a very popular, 20+ movie, 10+ year-long film franchise. No shit.
 

Bramblebutt

Member
Jan 11, 2018
1,266
I think he's right and seeing some people not willing to acknowledge his point even a little bit is telling.
Telling of what? The idea that highly marketed sequels and "cinematic universes" are sucking the oxygen out of the movie market is an opinion I've been hearing without opposition for over a decade. That opinion doesn't become novel because you decided to compare films with female leads. If anything, a piece like this reeks of hackish exploitation of the cultural zeitgeist that is recognizing and pushing for female representation in Hollywood blockbusters.
 

MinusTydus

The Fallen
Jul 28, 2018
1,596
Alita looked like generic shonen anime #587. And IDC for shonen. Tbf, I feel meh about all of the movies listed. Tend to be picky with any superhero related thing and TR always felt like Laura was a sex object and less a person.
That's why I enjoyed new Tomb Raider, Vikander brought more to the character than OMG BOOBZ! The movie itself was boring as hell, though. A shame we'll never get the sequel.
 

Addleburg

The Fallen
Nov 16, 2017
1,294
I saw all four films, and would rank them Wonder Woman > Alita >>> Captain Marvel >> Tomb Raider

That being said, I don't feel like the failure of TR, Alita, or hell, even Ghost in the Shell has a large amount to do with being female led. I don't think the female leads helped the film a huge deal, nor did they hurt them. TR looked incredibly generic (and was), and Alita has a hard sci-fi premise that never does all that well regardless of quality or even franchise reputation. Hell, look at Blade Runner 2049, which has grossed far less than Alita has so far despite having a bigger lead, a better director, and being a better film overall.

Captain Marvel did well in large part because it's part of the Marvel machine. Like GotG when they were first introduced, people will turn out to see it because of the brand it's associated with regardless of if they know the character. Captain Marvel also benefits from being an integral character in the conclusion that many people are eagerly awaiting.

I feel like being female led can skew the results slightly one way or another, but they don't make or break it.

Also: Atomic Blonde made $100 mil on a $30 mil budget. John Wick made $88 mil on a $20 mil budget. The issue with Atomic Blonde (which I also saw) was a limited market for that kind of hard R shooter type of film. Atomic Blonde would have made a truckload of money in the 90s, but now it's all about comic book movies and Disney remakes.
 
Oct 28, 2017
868
Tomb Raider had zero marketing. I didn't even know they were making one until I went to the theater to see a different movie and I noticed it under the "Now Playing" list.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,685
I watched all 4 of them and enjoyed all 4, actually. The Tomb Raider actress did a pretty darn good job in her role, and the movie was reasonably fun.

The eyes in Alita were nowhere near as bad as the trailer(s) / poster(s).
 

Gwarm

Member
Nov 13, 2017
280
I can understand why Alita wouldn't appeal to as wide an audience, but I'll be damned if it wasn't the best film of these.
 

UltimateHigh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,935
I've only seen Wonder Woman. I'll see Captain Marvel and Alita on streaming/video.

Tomb Raider isn't happening.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,749
Greater Vancouver
This may as well try to dissect why any movie fails at the box office. Yeah, people are going to go to the theater to see characters and a fiction they have investment in. Captain Marvel should have a place in the Marvel canon, and Wonder Woman, after all these years, deserves to be on-screen as a member of DC's trinity.

Tomb Raider is a mediocre-as-fuck reboot of a shlocky film franchise, that doesn't capture the spirit of the original games, or the intensity of the new ones.

Alita scared people off with the bizarre face effect, and even then, the trailers weren't all that great. It's an alright movie, and it deserved better at the box office, but it shouldn't be confusing why people were hesitant.


Neither Alita or TR's failings should be a sign of Hollywood not wanting women taking a spotlight in film. People already have a hard time justifying going to the theater for shit they don't already have some investment in. Neither of those films felt like an event for people to gather around.
 

BlackGoku03

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,409
Annihilation is a really tough sale for folks that want their movies more action-packed and less talky. I can't imagine a universe where that would have done better with an all-male cast.
True but it’s a good film. And nobody watched it. I just think it can join the list.

But I think it should be no surprise that high budget tent pole films do well with audiences. Especially if they’re crowd pleasing.

Alita is good but I can see how the aesthetics might throw people off.
 

Brandon

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,619
I only watched Alita because that's the only one that was interesting to me. More people should see that a sequel would be sweet.