(Forbes) Why You Saw 'Captain Marvel' And 'Wonder Woman' But Not 'Alita' And 'Tomb Raider'.

Madao

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,139
Panama
i watch many anime style shows and even i found Alita to be uncanny-valley territory. those big eyes look so off putting.
no idea why Cameron was so centered in having the eyes like that. you can do anime style with normal eyes pretty fine (i know only Alita has the big eyes but still. the trade off was too big)

i still plan to buy the Blu-ray eventually
 

Peru

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,923
Pretty poor hot take. Tomb Raider was not critically well-received, neither was Alita a critical favourite and both bore the hallmarks of many other action movies in the past few years that have not taken off, regardless of the lead's gender.

And in spite of that, quite a lot of people did show up to both these critically-meh'd movies. Tomb Raider made as much worldwide as the first Angelina Jolie Tomb Raider movie. It's just that they're expensive movies that didn't make as much money as expensive superhero movies.
 
Oct 26, 2017
620
i watch many anime style shows and even i found Alita to be uncanny-valley territory. those big eyes look so off putting.
no idea why Cameron was so centered in having the eyes like that. you can do anime style with normal eyes pretty fine (i know only Alita has the big eyes but still. the trade off was too big)

i still plan to buy the Blu-ray eventually
Because technology allowed him to have the character look exactly like she does in the source material and it’s explainable in-universe. As an added bonus, you don’t get that disconnected feeling of ‘that’s an actress’s head superimposed on a body that’s doing something ridiculous’ during action scenes if the entire character is CGI all the way through. Not saying it’s right or wrong (that discussion’s so boring at this point) but that’s the reasons.
 
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squeakywheel

Member
Oct 29, 2017
694
Saw all 4.

Alita > WoWo > Marvel > Raider
I agree with this ranking. I just saw Marvel and was underwhelmed. I really enjoyed Alita best. Marvel seemed so one note the entire time and the humor fell so flat. Nobody laughed in my full theater tonight. Kinda disappointed but at least the 3rd act was pretty good and showed off her powers. The kid and the cat were pretty good lol.
 

CrocodileGrin

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
927
I really enjoyed both of the Jolie films but didn’t see the new Tomb Raider because it looked like the 2013 reboot game and I had no interest in seeing a cinematic version of that. Alita’s trailers never sold me on it because I found the main character’s animated head distracting. Wonder Woman I’ve had on blu-ray for several months, and unfortunately I haven’t gotten around to watching it. Captain Marvel I plan to see because I always found the concept of Carol both fascinating and complicated. Plus, Avengers is soon. I was going to bring up Annihilation going against everything this article is saying and then I read it’s actually considered a box office bomb??? I’m really surprised. It’s a good film.
 

Aftermath

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,679
Well I have been watching and admiring female hero's (and Villains) for years in the Horror/Sci-Fi genre.

Heros

From Barbara to Carrie, from to Ripley to Sarah Connor (T2 & TV Series) and everything inbetween, Sidney Prescott, Laurie Strode, Buffy etc.

it’s not my fault you aren’t into Horror but your missing out and anyone who has ever said woman don’t belong in Horror need their head seen too, Women Rule horror, you could argue that the men overshadow them but I don’t believe that.

I don’t view them as weak like some do neither but strong, the problem is the Scream Queens, we do need less of the Final girl was a Virgin trope though.

Villains and Monsters

Alien Queen, Bride of Frankenstein (she was not really a Villain) hell even the 1st Friday the 13th Killer was Mrs Vorhees and NOT Jason, Julia & the Female Cenobite ( it was really Julia who was the Monster) Sadako Yamamura, Regan (again was she really a Villain or a Victim?) and so on.

Sci-Fi
I saw Ghost in the Shell in the Cinema & I liked it despite the controversy, Princess Leia was a badass, Mamma was a great For Dredd and Even Dr Who’s Assistants Ace and Bill Potts being two of my favourite.

But we Can do better in both Genres outside of Comic Books and we will get there with the likes of the Soska Sisters etc
 

TheBeardedOne

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,189
Derry
i watch many anime style shows and even i found Alita to be uncanny-valley territory. those big eyes look so off putting.
no idea why Cameron was so centered in having the eyes like that. you can do anime style with normal eyes pretty fine (i know only Alita has the big eyes but still. the trade off was too big)

i still plan to buy the Blu-ray eventually
Yeah. The animation was quite offputting. I'm not into anime whatsoever, so that added to it. Maybe I'll watch it on TV one day, but I'm in no rush.

Because movies with male leads never flop?
Nope. Never.
 

davidnolan13

Member
Oct 27, 2017
236
north east uk
I saw all 4 and happy death day 2u and mortal engines and enjoyed them all mainly. Mortal engines was slightly underwhelming but fun enough. But a film with a female lead is just as good or bad as any male lead film.
 

Toddhunter

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,633
Nobody saw Alita because the title is Alita: battle angel.

That might sound like a small thing but to me it screamed “don’t pay to see this at the movies, watch it on tv one day”. If you are really confident in the whole thing, just call it Alita and make it seem like it isn’t a cheap tv episode.

Not showing the entire damn movie in the trailer would be a great tip too.
 

Kaswa101

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,393
I've seen and enjoyed all of them besides Alita - haven't gotten around to watching that one yet. :/
 

coldzone24

Member
Oct 27, 2017
110
Cleveland, OH
While I loved Alita, I also thought it was terrible at the same time and would never actually recommend to anybody but a few select people who are into shlocky movies like me. And Tomb Raider simply looked boring and bland.
 

TheKeyPit

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,283
Germany
I still think that a John Wick movie with a woman as the lead (a lost sister of Mr. Wick) would make bank. It'd be like Atomic Blonde but cranked up to an absurd level of John Wick action / choreography.
 

PrimeBeef

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,987
I'm sorry, movies have to at least be interesting to me, and Tomb Raider and Atila didn't move the needle, neither did Wonder Woman. Marvel comics clicked with me at an early age in a way DC never did, so I am interested in seeing what they can do with beloved characters and stories of my youth.
 

ParanoidRED

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,931
Jolie's TR is still the goat, new one looked boring as fuck, just like the newer games


Anyway, watched 'em all, Wonder Woman felt the most competent and entertaining by far
 

Laserdisk

Member
May 11, 2018
6,111
UK

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
7,961
Tomb Raider was ok, Vikander was great and I wish she had another opportunity with a better script.

Alita's eyes just creep me out too much. Also not very interested in anime.
 

SilentRob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,140
It's worth noting that Captain Marvel and Tomb Raider share an insane amount of similiarities because the same screenwriter wrote both. And with it, both share an amazing, oscar-winning actress who can do absolutely nothing with the stale, soap opera style drama and cheesy, non-hitting comedy lines. It all seems slightly wrong. If you watch both after each other, the problems they share with their screenplay are incredibly obvious.

CM certainly isn't a better movie than either of them. But yeah, it's a franchise. Article is on point in that regard.
 

Galkinator

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,558
That is grasping at straws.
CM and WW were good movies with a talented crew and heart behind them.
TR never looked good or appealing, where as Alita probably creeped out everyone with their awful design choice of her cringeworthy eyes.
Alita could've also been a moderate success if they hadn't blown an insane budget on it.
 
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Psychoward

Member
Nov 7, 2017
15,254
I havent seen any

Tomb Raider looked bad and the new games have worst in class stories. Alita never appealed to me and the unique but poorly executed character design actually drew my attention, still never bothered. I don't see the rush to go see so so movies. Wonder Woman I caught on digital and Pike and Gadot had a lot of charisma but the formulaic 3rd act and paper thin supporting caricatures led to a decent but forgettable movie.

Havent seen captain marvel yet and havent been interested from the trailers but I like Larson a lot and wanna be caught up before Endgame so I'll probably see it in its last 2 weeks. Meh
 

Defect

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,020
I haven’t seen any of those and don’t plan to. Maaaaaybe I’ll watch Alita one day since that’s the most interesting looking one but it’ll probably be years before I do.

As for Captain Marvel, I’ll see her in Endgame.
 

Lucky241

Member
Oct 31, 2017
696
the shores of Carcosa
Saw and loved them all. It sucks to see Alita won’t get the sequel. Really would have liked to see where that story goes. (No, I’m not reading the manga)

Don’t know why it came out so close to Captain Marvel. Absolutely stupid of them. They’re both about young women discovering their identity, purpose and power. Spread it out over the year. No fucking need to come out so close together.
 

NoName999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,293
I mean, one was the first good superheroine movie with good of mouth
One was a the next movie starring a superheroine in a popular movie franchise

Meanwhile, the others were either a video game movie or an anime movie that was co opted by Nazis.

I mean... it's not that hard to see why.
 

Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,868
Tomb Raider never interested me, not the games, not the movies, so a movie reboot of a rebooted game wasn't gonna do it for me lol. Wanna see Alita though when it drops on home release.
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,718
Canada
Nobody saw Alita because the title is Alita: battle angel.

That might sound like a small thing but to me it screamed “don’t pay to see this at the movies, watch it on tv one day”. If you are really confident in the whole thing, just call it Alita and make it seem like it isn’t a cheap tv episode.

Not showing the entire damn movie in the trailer would be a great tip too.
The title of the series is Battle Angel Alita... And then James Cameron changed it so that his movies would still be A or T names.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,266
England
Alita was actually better than Captain Marvel.
It's really not. I love Alita a lot, it was badass, with great characters, awesome fight scenes and lots of spectacle but it didn't make me feel anything. Captain Marvel was actually inspiring and Carol herself is much more relatable. Young women already look up to her the way I imagine young men look up to Rogers and I came out of the movie air punching like the guy from Breakfast Club.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,874
Alita is going to be a cult classic 20 years down the road. Don't expect movies like that to be huge successes right away. Alita is on the same path as Blade Runner.
I mean, its the best movie of the ones listed, and I agree it has the potential to become a cult movie, despite som very real flaws.

But on the same path as Blade Runner? That's crazy talk right there. Sorry friend, you just might be crazy.
 

dan2026

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,175
God gods I am sick of all the commentary and controversy around Captain Marvel.
It wasn't even that good. It was pretty mid/low tier even amoung the Marvel movies.

But why can't movies stand on their own anymore? It always has to bring in feminism, sexism, everyone pick a side. I hate it.

It just a superhero movie. A distinctly average superhero movie.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,989
If anything, it shows you need to market a middling female-led action movie as some kind of cultural feminist touchstone if you want mega-success.
 

Sanka

Member
Feb 17, 2019
107
You know what? I actually really hate this take. It suggests that it's on us as an audience to make sure that these diverse movies keep getting made. That we as an audience have to show up for every showing wasting hard earned money, just so that these Disney execs can keep filling their pockets. Nah, fuck that.

We are demanding more representation not because it's supposed to make them more money, but because it's the right thing to do. And if that's not happening we will keep criticising and calling them out for it.
 

Certinfy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,844
Seen all four, wouldn’t say any are bad.

Personally: Captain Marvel > Tomb Raider > Alita > Wonder Woman.

Not that Wonder Woman isn’t good but that beyond awful final act and the lack of interesting supporting characters killed it for me.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,035
I saw Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman and Alita. They’re all below average movies with CM having the benefit of Samuel Lee Jackson.

Pining them against each other talking about one being a good movie and the other not is really funny to me.

The article is more or less right, people will prefer to go see what they know if the quality is about even.

Captain Marvel was actually inspiring and Carol herself is much more relatable. Young women already look up to her the way I imagine young men look up to Rogers and I came out of the movie air punching like the guy from Breakfast Club.
But see none of that makes it a good movie. As you mentioned, people looked up to Steve Rogers even if Captain America isn’t a particularly good movie. You can be inspiring and bad at the same time.
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
God gods I am sick of all the commentary and controversy around Captain Marvel.
It wasn't even that good. It was pretty mid/low tier even amoung the Marvel movies.

But why can't movies stand on their own anymore? It always has to bring in feminism, sexism, everyone pick a side. I hate it.

It just a superhero movie. A distinctly average superhero movie.

I think the point of the article is exactly that. Captain Marvel is a middle-of-the-road movie and that's absolutely fine, but it's enjoying massive commercial success, a success that other female-led movies aren't enjoying, and the thesis here is that it's getting that money because it's a Marvel movie, not because it's female led.

What the article is trying to say is that we can't assume the situation with female and male led movie is normalized based on the success of Marvel movies or Star Wars movie because people would show up for those even if the lead was full CGI or a domesticated squirrel. We need to see success in female led non-tentpole movies before we can claim that it's done, that we've won and audiences aren't showing any bias anymore.

What the author is implying, I think, is that Alita or Tomb Raider or Atomic Blonde would have probably enjoyed a bigger success if they were male led, which implies that Captain Marvel is making money because it's Marvel and so, in a way, "despite" being female led. You may agree or disagree, but the numbers are those. Alita is far better than a vast amount of similar genre movies that earned more in the last few years. I'm absolutely persuaded that if it was called "Alan: Battle Badass" and the main character was a mocapped Jonas brother instead of Rosa Salazar it would have made more bank.


(Alita was also the best movie of those namedropped, even if WW is pretty close).
 

-2B-

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Sep 23, 2018
420
Im not sure what the point of the article is. They seemed surprised people are only going to see movies they are interested in. Diversity in movies is fine. I’m not going to see a movie that doesn’t look interesting just because it is diverse though. I did see TR and it wasn’t that good. Alita didn’t interest me. Those movies also didn’t have the marketing of the comic book movies.