(Forbes) Why You Saw 'Captain Marvel' And 'Wonder Woman' But Not 'Alita' And 'Tomb Raider'.

[Mass_Pincup]

I saw Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman and Alita. They're all below average movies with CM having the benefit of Samuel Lee Jackson.

Pining them against each other talking about one being a good movie and the other not is really funny to me.

The article is more or less right, people will prefer to go see what they know if the quality is about even.

Captain Marvel was actually inspiring and Carol herself is much more relatable. Young women already look up to her the way I imagine young men look up to Rogers and I came out of the movie air punching like the guy from Breakfast Club.

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But see none of that makes it a good movie. As you mentioned, people looked up to Steve Rogers even if Captain America isn't a particularly good movie. You can be inspiring and bad at the same time.

 

[Visanideth]

God gods I am sick of all the commentary and controversy around Captain Marvel.
It wasn't even that good. It was pretty mid/low tier even amoung the Marvel movies.

But why can't movies stand on their own anymore? It always has to bring in feminism, sexism, everyone pick a side. I hate it.

It just a superhero movie. A distinctly average superhero movie.

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I think the point of the article is exactly that. Captain Marvel is a middle-of-the-road movie and that's absolutely fine, but it's enjoying massive commercial success, a success that other female-led movies aren't enjoying, and the thesis here is that it's getting that money because it's a Marvel movie, not because it's female led.

What the article is trying to say is that we can't assume the situation with female and male led movie is normalized based on the success of Marvel movies or Star Wars movie because people would show up for those even if the lead was full CGI or a domesticated squirrel. We need to see success in female led non-tentpole movies before we can claim that it's done, that we've won and audiences aren't showing any bias anymore.

What the author is implying, I think, is that Alita or Tomb Raider or Atomic Blonde would have probably enjoyed a bigger success if they were male led, which implies that Captain Marvel is making money because it's Marvel and so, in a way, "despite" being female led. You may agree or disagree, but the numbers are those. Alita is far better than a vast amount of similar genre movies that earned more in the last few years. I'm absolutely persuaded that if it was called "Alan: Battle Badass" and the main character was a mocapped Jonas brother instead of Rosa Salazar it would have made more bank.


(Alita was also the best movie of those namedropped, even if WW is pretty close).

 

[-2B-]

Im not sure what the point of the article is. They seemed surprised people are only going to see movies they are interested in. Diversity in movies is fine. I'm not going to see a movie that doesn't look interesting just because it is diverse though. I did see TR and it wasn't that good. Alita didn't interest me. Those movies also didn't have the marketing of the comic book movies.

 

[Scullibundo]

The title of the series is Battle Angel Alita... And then James Cameron changed it so that his movies would still be A or T names.

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I thought Battle Angel Alita was a much better title that also rolls off the tongue. I really don't like Alita: Battle Angel.

But he actually did reveal the reason for the retitling outside of that dumb superstition. The sequel (that we'll never get) was going to be called Alita: Fallen Angel and so on.

 

[TastyBurger666]

I've seen all four, thanks.

(and in that context, the only one that's objectively awful is Tomb Raider)

 

[Visanideth]

You know what? I actually really hate this take. It suggests that it's on us as an audience to make sure that these diverse movies keep getting made.

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Yeah turning this into a "Capcom blackmail" thing would be terrible. But the problem is that movies are incredibly expensive. Alita costed almost 200$ - you can't expect people to keep making those efforts if there's no economical return. This isn't a matter of having a product that has to exist and thus making it diverse because it's a cost-free operation. They're trying to sell something and if it turns out that the diverse products sell less, then yes, it's on audiences.

 

[Herne]

I saw Alita and liked it, have no interest in Captain Marvel and I'd never heard of the others. It's rare enough that I go to the cinema, though - maybe twice a year.

 

[thesoapster]

I saw Alita and liked it, have no interest in Captain Marvel and I'd never heard of the others. It's rare enough that I go to the cinema, though - maybe twice a year.

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I'm in this camp. Marvel movies, for the most part, just keep feeling more cookie cutter to me. I do regret not seeing BP in theaters, though. DC movies just largely fail to fill me with any anticipation whatsoever. When it comes to WW, it also doesn't help that I kind of dislike Gak Gadot.

 

[honest_ry]

Dont watch Tomb Raider. Its absolute dog shite.

 

[Tanerian]

The Trailers for Battle Angel and Tomb Raider made both movies look like absolute trash.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

I didn't even know there was another Tomb Raider movie. I enjoyed Wonder Woman and Alita. Found Captain Marvel boring and a chore to sit through. Though I may be getting MCU fatigue.

 

[jokingbird]

I saw captain marvel and tomb raider. I am going to wait on Alita for it to be available on streaming. Wonder Woman did not interest me for some reason. I still need to check it out, but the whole DC output had been a let down that I skipped it. I doubt it will be as good as the animated Wonder Woman, which I loved. I think most of these movies fail due to aesthetic choices (Alita's eyes) or from poor reviews (Tomb Raider). Comic book movies seem to be cash cows. I think the failure of the other movies has nothing to do with female leads. The whole comparison seems faulty from the get go.

 

[VideogameVices]

I watched all these movies. I wish I hadnt seen tomb raider because it was SHITTTTT.

I want a sequel to Alita.

 

[Keasar]

Tomb Raider looked like shit and Alita sounded like shit and also looked so goddamn awkward because someone decided to give the main character GIANT EYES despite the giant eye thing not being a unique characteristic in the manga, everyone had giant eyes. Didn't see Ghost in the Shell either cause even as a fan of Ghost in the Shell, the live action version just looked it badly tried to be the anime movie instead of telling it's own story and therefore just didn't interest me at all.

I want more female led movies like Thee Billboards outside Ebbings, Missouri. Captain Marvel. Wonder Woman etc. but that doesn't mean I'll go see every bloody movie.

 

[Striferser]

Watched captain marvel and Alita.
I like Alita more thanks to better action and great art direction. Story pacing is a mess but damn that action scene was fire.

 

[Jaoox]

I don't know how I should feel knowing I did the exact opposite.

I have yet to see WW and Capt Marvel.

Btw Alita is really great (but also kinda... weird in certain spots), and it deserves way more love ! I really hope there's a sequel at some point...

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Tomb Raider looked bad from thw trailers so I didn't see it.

Wonder Woman, Alita and Cap. Marvel were lit.

 

[Falchion]

I plan to see them all, just haven't made it to Alita in the theater yet.

 

[Deleted member 6582]

Unfortunately not enough of a sample size to make a point. Superhero movies make a lot of money, have a lot of marketing and are generally considered child-appropriate. Experimental anime movies don't, movies based on M-rated games don't, nothing specific about women vs men in that area.

 

[HeartlessNobody2134]

I saw all of them. Even before I got A-list I would still go see any movie I was slightly interested in.

I usually go to the early Saturday morning showing so tickets were only $6.50 unless it was in a premium format.

 

[OrdinaryPrime]

I don't think I'd watch Tomb Raider on a 14 hour flight...would rather rewatch a Mission Impossible or something.

 

[Prophet Five]

I love Tomb Raider. Old and reboot. Its one of my favorite series and I love Lara Croft as one of gaming's most iconic heroines. I love video games. I love movies.

I do not, however, love video game movies. Even the original Tomb Raider movie series was "wait for it to come out at Blockbuster so I can rent it with my employee rentals."

 

[TheJollyCorner]

Alita was a good time. Great action, lovely art direction, and Rosa Salazar nailed it.
I'm sad we probably won't get a sequel.

 

[Sykdom]

I saw all of them

 

[spam musubi]

I don't think I'd watch Tomb Raider on a 14 hour flight...would rather rewatch a Mission Impossible or something.

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I recently tried watching it on an 11 hour flight. Gave up less than half an hour in.

 

[Deleted member 41638]

Article mentions Atomic Blonde and I just wanna say the stairwell fight in that movie is a fucking 10/10. Easily one of the best fight scenes in recent memory.

 

[Spinky]

Nah, I only saw WW and Tomb Raider.

Wonder Woman because it's Wonder Woman, and Tomb Raider because... IDK, vidya games. Probably wouldn't have seen it if I didn't have an unlimited card.

 

[Schreckweg 5000]

2 of these products had the full backing of Time Warner and Disney.

The other 2... lol.

 

[Kaiser Swayze]

I'll continue spending my time and money on movies I actually want to see, thank you. To hell with anyone who thinks they're going to shame me for seeing "safe" movies. The only time I'd buy a ticket to a movie as a show of support is if I knew someone involved in the production. Neither Alita nor Tomb Raider looked all that good in the trailers, and the response from critics wasn't that glowing either. Hard pass on both.

 

[Naijaboy]

I can't be the only one that saw all four of them. And I keep all my movie stubs too. My first was the first Harry Potter.

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*raises hand*
Though I only watched Tomb Raider due to HBO... and regreted it afterwards.

 

[Manmademan]

Forbes Link

from Scott Mendelson

Excerpts from the article:
This article falls in line with something I was thinking about recently, as I've kept all of my movie ticket stubs going back over 20 years. As soon as I was old enough to drive I saw lots of movies in theaters throughout the 90s and early 00s, but these days when you look at my stubs you'll see franchise after franchise with the occasional outlier like Alita. I'm less likely to take a chance on a movie that's unfamiliar now, and the studios know it.

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Ok i get this, but how is Tomb Raider not considered a franchise?

Even if we ignore that its an adaptation of very, VERY long running video game series thats sold tens of millions of copies, this isnt the first Tomb Raider film.

Angelina Jolie had a 2001 film that grossed almost $300m, and followed it up with a sequel in 2003.

 

[Xenon]

So basically I should ignore my common sense and go to see movies based on encoraging future releases... no thanks. I saw the 2(seeing the 3rd tonight) that made sense paying $$ and taking the time to go to the theater. They should have given Alita a musical number and a cute animal companion then more Americans would have went to see it. Only half kidding here.

As for why I didnt see Tomb Raider. I wasn't a fan of the choice of actress. The trailer was generic as hell. Reviews were pretty bad.

 

[borghe]

actually still want to see Alita. Mostly I go with family.. and it was tough to get everyone out to Aquaman, AND Alita, AND Captain Marvel. but I still really want to see Alita and may try to hit the theater yet.

 

[mrmoose]

I don't get why this is focused on female-led movies. Any movie connected to the MCU or DC will get a boost compared to an unaffiliated film. As badly as Fantastic Beasts 2 did, it would have done a lot worse had it been an original story completely unconnected to the Harry Potter universe. Heck even this Tomb Raider movie would've bombed even harder if it was just an independent relic-chasing film. If Mortal Engines had some tie in to Marvel it would have done a lot better. etc. etc. I don't see how that relates to the gender of the lead.

 

[ISOM]

I saw the first Tomb Raider with Angelina Jolie so that invalidates the title already.

 

[Baji Boxer]

Ok i get this, but how is Tomb Raider not considered a franchise?

Even if we ignore that its an adaptation of very, VERY long running video game series thats sold tens of millions of copies, this isnt the first Tomb Raider film.

Angelina Jolie had a 2001 film that grossed almost $300m, and followed it up with a sequel in 2003.

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Last year's Tomb Raider did $274m on $94m budget, which the same budget as those first two Tomb Raider films. It wasn't exactly a bomb as far as I know.

Yeah, I think the article is based on some false premise.

 

[TheZynster]

if Alita had the main character not 100% CGI'd i would have probably saw it. But the whole lets CGI just the main character.........yes, no thanks.

Also tomb raider was boring.

Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel just looked that much more fun and interesting.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I saw all 4 in the theater. You couldn't pay me to watch Tomb Raider again. What an awful movie with her wincing and grunting for 2 hours. Fuck that movie.

The other 3 were fine, though Alita was the flakiest and shallowest of the 3. I don't think Alita will age well at all (plot).

 

[Not Spaceghost]

If we want more action movies like Captain Marvel, we need to show up for other action movies like Captain Marvel, even if they aren't quite as good or part of an established cinematic universe. Because here's the grim truth: You probably wouldn't have seen Captain Marvel this weekend if it wasn't part of an established comic book superhero universe.

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Fucking no? I'm not going to see Alita and I'm not going to go watch Tomb Raider because the movie look like I won't like them. Captain Marvel looked like a movie I would enjoy. I saw Tomb Raider on the plane and it was just as I expected, strong opening sequences but otherwise weak as hell. I might not have loved Captain Marvel but I had a good time as I expected. And I loved Wonder Woman, I didn't see it in theaters because I didn't have time but I saw it later and it was awesome. I haven't seen Alita and I probably won't until it's streamable or on HBO because it isn't peaking my interests.

I am not going to waste my time and money to make other movies like these happen. To say that you should is ridiculous. Sorry I am not invested enough to pity support things.

 

[Deleted member 925]

It's really sad how people are just shrugging off Alita based on dumb ass reasons. Movie and character deserve better. One of the most faithful adaptations I've seen of a Japanese anime/manga. The movie has heart and some really excellent performances. And some of the best action scenes this decade, which is something that really disappointed me in CM.

 

[golem]

Tomb Raider was boring AF. Turned it off 1/3 of the way through
Alita wasnt a good movie. The only standout scenes are flashbacks

 

[catboy]

Tomb raider 2018 looked bad and was part of a brand with (unfortunately) sinking popularity and relevance

Alita looked stupid because of the eyes. Everyone I know who normally would've turned up for a female led action film did not because of the eyes.

 

[Avis]

At least better than Captain Marvel for certain.

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Absolutely

 

[Deleted member 925]

Tomb raider 2018 looked bad and was part of a brand with (unfortunately) sinking popularity and relevance

Alita looked stupid because of the eyes. Everyone I know who normally would've turned up for a female led action film did not because of the eyes.

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And that's one of the dumbest reasons I've heard for someone not going to a movie, it's not a valid form of criticism. It's focus group comments. Smh

 

[Prine]

I saw Ridley and Sarah Connor.

Much much better and positive representatives. Sarah Connor was a force of nature because she was amd wasn't a mother.

 

[Deleted member 4262]

I didn't watch Tomb Raider because it looked like crap and everyone told me it sucked. Alita is still on my watch list but I didn't care for any of the trailers. Also, I dislike her CGI face.

 

[Elderly Parrot]

I saw them all and I liked them alllll. Different levels of love of course.

 

[mrmoose]

And that's one of the dumbest reasons I've heard for someone not going to a movie, it's not a valid form of criticism. It's focus group comments. Smh

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? It may be a shallow reason not to go but how can you say it's not valid? It's not like this is a side character, this is the main character of the movie, if you are bothered by her design that seems valid enough to me. Heck, they even toned it way, way down to try to mitigate the backlash.

And if you're bothered by the fact that Cameron saw the manga and decided that the size the artist drew the eyes was something to focus on, that's probably also a valid reason.

 

[Deleted member 925]

? It may be a shallow reason not to go but how can you say it's not valid? It's not like this is a side character, this is the main character of the movie, if you are bothered by her design that seems valid enough to me. Heck, they even toned it way, way down to try to mitigate the backlash.

And if you're bothered by the fact that Cameron saw the manga and decided that the size the artist drew the eyes was something to focus on, that's probably also a valid reason.

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It's such a internet-era thing to complain about. It doesn't validate that persons reason for me because it seems so petty and yes, shallow. If you want to talk about the movie after you saw it and throw out some story beat complains, sure. But you're judging a book by its cover for such a small detail.

And Robert/James wanted Alita to be the first manga character come to "life." It was a stylistic choice and while they changed it slightly, I'm glad they go back on it completely because of complaints on places like Reddit.

 

[I am a Bird]

I didn't watch tomb raider due to watching other tomb raider movies.