Former White Supremacist hosting an AMA on Reddit (Read OP)

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
8,345
I don't know why you're making so many things up about what I've said. I didn't say anything about what kind of citizens POC are or what rights POC have. I don't know why you're acting like I'm denying the racial injustice that's been going on for centuries when I've acknowledged it in every one of my responses. I don't know why you're still pretending I think you owe bigots something when I've explicitly pointed out that I don't. I don't know why you're willing to diminish MLK Jr's legacy of pushing progress forward just because you don't like the implication that his strategy had merit. I don't know why you're talking about doing things "in good faith" or acting like I've said it's your job to do any of this when I've deliberately specified the contrary.

I appreciate that you're passionate enough to write this series of speeches about injustice but you're directing this one at an imaginary person, and I'm getting tired of being constantly strawmanned or vilified for presupposed crimes of character. Out of all the things you just addressed, only one of them was one of my actual points, and that was that MLK Jr was good for civil rights, which you're absurdly unwilling to grant. The rest were arguments against positions I've either said nothing about or already made clear I agree with you on. You've completely neglected to engage with my actual argument, that effective tactics do not necessarily align with fair ones.

We have enough enemies already, don't we? Do we need to be inventing new ones out of every disagreement among each other? Do we need to make up a bunch of fake points and arguments so we can pat ourselves on the back for winning them instead of engaging any of the difficult problems? That isn't healthy behavior.

I'll try to lay this out as clearly as I can one final time. All the evidence on the topic that I am aware of points to the conclusions that 1 - some white supremacists have deconverted due to being shown compassion, and 2 - people are predisposed to conservative stances when they feel threatened and liberal ones when they don't. Neither of these points have anything at all to do with what anyone deserves or whose responsibility it is to do anything, neither of them advocate any blanket policy about what is most effective in every scenario, and I am not using either of them to suggest that the issue is settled and not worth further discussion about.

The one specific thing which I propose is that when we find ourselves familiar on an individual, personal scale with a person with a bigoted viewpoint, someone that isn't already very hostile to us, it would more likely be helpful to try reasoning with them in a nonthreatening manner than to make them feel threatened if the goal is to change their mind. You might not feel like doing that, and that's valid. You might have priorities other than changing their mind, and that's valid too. What isn't valid is the idea that nonthreatening reasoning is completely useless and has no place in the fight against bigotry. I want equality and in order to get there we need to at least be rational about which methods are effective for getting there. The evidence, while there's much less than I'd prefer, suggests that conversation is still the most useful legal way in some contexts to do it, which is why I don't like people aggressively discrediting it without reason. That's all.
Dont you ever dare accuse me of dimishing MLKs legacy.

Thats just insulting. And stop the buzzwords, that leads nowhere

And I need you to see excelsiorlef s screencaps so you understand you're caping for the WRONG guy here. He's not even doing what you claim is the solution. like AT ALL.

Ill give you a response once I finish reading, but youre way off about this.
 

Slayven

CEO of ZAIA
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
62,747

sph3re

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
6,140
"I don't blame them, really. If your racial group was a target for the world's largest cult, you'd want to kick the crap out of them, too. You just can't give into the violence, that's the hard part."

So you politely tell us you understand. But we should turn the other cheek. Nope, nothing patronising about that.
Stop being so radical excelsiorlef. Can't you see he's trying to bring love, and all you're doing is bringing hate.
I'll never understand what it's like to be a black person in America and the hatred you feel towards white supremacists, so I shouldn't be telling you what you what to do.

Yeah, I get your point now.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
15,158
lol and this is the ally that was worth to have and excuse his past behaviour. Always the same shit....

As always, right people manipulate people that pretend to be left and think that nice words are the answer of everything.
 

Just_a_Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,030
No surprise that a white supremacist hellhole like Reddit is giving this literal nazi a global stage to spew his hate. He doesn't even need to hide it.
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,128
so the dude's a hack and a lipservice fluffernutter at best, or a fraud and a plant at worst.

welp.

 

Zen

Member
Nov 1, 2017
7,828
I think this dude has twisted some insane logic knots to be where he is now.
 

Alucrid

Chicken Photographer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,350
all proceeds will go to buying bikes for white kids who had theirs stolen by black kids so that they don't become prominent members of white supremacy movements

racism solved
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
16,123
Remember that the best thing to do with white supremacists is to befriend them and never criticize them. Who knows maybe someday they'll see the light because you didn't do anything! In other words don't do anything and maybe things will work out.

What a joke.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
55,629
If he's not a plant, it honestly just sounds like he's saying "it's okay to hate, as long as it is not in a Hate Group".
I think he's best understood as a guy who sees his entire experience as a racist as part of being a victim of circumstances.... I do think he's not a neo nazi anymore, I just don't think that's overtly impressive either.
 

Dullahan

Always bets on black
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,638
My read on this guy is that he's either

1) A fucking Nazi who is pretending to be reformed, so he gets less heat and can be "subtle" about his bullshit

or

2) Really goddamn naive, and he thinks that his personal experience represents the life experience of all of those other fucks. It doesn't work that way.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
My read on this guy is that he's either

1) A fucking Nazi who is pretending to be reformed, so he gets less heat and can be "subtle" about his bullshit

or

2) Really goddamn naive, and he thinks that his personal experience represents the life experience of all of those other fucks. It doesn't work that way.
or 3) A former Nazi who refuses to take responsibility for his actions, all the while blaming it on other people and making a little cash.
 

The Kree

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,527
My read on this guy is that he's either

1) A fucking Nazi who is pretending to be reformed, so he gets less heat and can be "subtle" about his bullshit

or

2) Really goddamn naive, and he thinks that his personal experience represents the life experience of all of those other fucks. It doesn't work that way.
3)He's stupid.
 

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
lololololololololololololololololol tell me again why I, and other minorities, should try and be more like this guy

Mighty fine work excelsior
Again I say, it's seen as anti-white to hold white people to the same standard as any other human being.

Man, everyone was going to bat over this guy who btw, probably killed people.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,395
I think he's best understood as a guy who sees his entire experience as a racist as part of being a victim of circumstances.... I do think he's not a neo nazi anymore, I just don't think that's overtly impressive either.
He used to hate himself and had to convince himself that his race was superior to cope, so as a result he was very racist even for an American.

Now he likes himself a whole lot so he's really just about an average white American amount of racist where he can't help but subconsciously prioritize the needs of the white people and their perceived suffering over those who they are actively making suffer. Like sure, he now thinks minorities matter but not, you know, more than the white people hurting them. In another two decades, he might even prioritize the oppressed.
 

Alucrid

Chicken Photographer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,350
also if anyone is wondering why daryl davis is looked at the way he is...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/features/klan.htm

Two cars pull slowly into the lot after circling the perimeter. Seven unsmiling faces peer at the man on the car. Grand Klaliff Chester Doles of the Invisible Empire, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and his retinue were supposed to be meeting some guy in a Town Car. However, the large dude perched on the hood is clearly non-Anglo-Saxon. In fact he is quite obviously black.

The black man gives them a friendly wave.

...

The concrete walls glow Pepto-pink and minty green. Chester Doles's prison uniform is blaze orange. The bizarre color scheme makes the explosion of tattoos along Doles's meaty arms seem almost muted and tasteful.

The prisoner is serving a seven-year sentence for assault. He and a fellow Klansman, Raymond Pierson, beat a black man bloody at a stoplight. Doles denies the incident was racially motivated, at least on his part. Claims he didn't even notice the white woman in the black man's truck until afterward. Just a matter of hot tempers, he says – and another clear case of discrimination against the Klan.

In any event, Doles renounces the episode as a youthful error. Says he wants to clean up his image. Literally. He points to the swastika on his right hand, and the slogan WHITE POWER on his left. Those will get lasered off, he says, so he can look more respectable in a suit.

...

Despite his vow that he would never be photographed with Davis, the former grand klaliff has since posed for a picture. It made Davis's book, of course. "Yeah, Daryl is a friend," he confirms. "He's articulate, intelligent. He relaxed my views – on him, as an individual."

Davis received thank-you notes after making a cash baby gift to one of Doles's former fiancees. Doles's children have met Davis. They like him. But Doles is quick to qualify Davis's generosity: "My children weren't supported by a black man."

Having quit the Klan, Doles plans to enter politics: "I definitely follow the Nazis. National Socialism is my religion. I believe in it and I look for the Fourth Reich."

He says it calmly, matter-of-fact, utterly without irony. Doles's agenda is now set by the National Alliance, founded by William L. Pierce, author of "The Turner Diaries" and inheritor of George Lincoln Rockwell's Nazi following. The alliance's literature embraces "racial cleansing of the land," takes a firm stand against "negroid" jazz and rock music, and, by name, Barry Manilow.

But Doles doesn't mention the implications for his friend, the black musician. Such talk would be impolite and impolitic. "I respect him," the neo-Nazi says. "I'll shake his hand. But I'll take my views to my grave."
but perhaps he has changed since then? two decades is a long ti-

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...d727b644a0b_story.html?utm_term=.3284bb244f79

A black pickup truck parked across the street, and a muscular man got out, and a reporter from the local paper who’d just arrived told the women it was Chester Doles, a former leader in the Klan and a white-separatist group called the National Alliance who had gone to prison on federal weapons charges. He lived just outside town and was currently a personal trainer who also worked promoting “hate rock” concerts around the country. He pulled out a cellphone and began taking photographs. He said something to the women, but they couldn’t hear.

“What’s that, sir?” Kahn called out, and the women heard him say something about how “glorious” it was to see such a sign in the light of day, and then he drove off, even as more people were arriving — white-haired locals, college students and others who said they were appalled; a Native American man who brought a ladder and tried to rip the banner down; a white man who argued the KKK banner and flag should come down but not the Confederate battle flag; a young black man who stood there crying.