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Former White Supremacist hosting an AMA on Reddit (Read OP)

EdibleKnife

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
TreadTalks said:
Guy: “Hey guys, I was a white supremacist, recruited at 14, rejected it at 22. Now I’m dedicated to educating people about how they recruit people and helping folks disengage from hate groups. Here’s what got me out of it, and here’s what others can do.”

Era: “FUCK this guy. WE DONT OWE YOU SHIT! Fuck you! You’re all fools for listening to this guy! Fuck him!”

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People really need to stop tut-ting the reactions of people of color to white supremacists. There are a lot of people on ERA and beyond who have or know people who have had emotionally, mentally and physically damaging life experiences due to the efforts of white supremacists excluding experience where life/lives were just straight up ended due to white supremacy. If you want to take notes on what the man says then do so. There's no need try and police the feelings of people who don't have friendly opinions on one of the most insidious, pervasive and sick terrorist movements in US history.
 
More_Badass

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,917
EdibleKnife said:
People really need to stop tut-ting the reactions of people of color to white supremacists. There are a lot of people on ERA and beyond who have or know people who have had emotionally, mentally and physically damaging life experiences due to the efforts of white supremacists. If you want to take notes on what the man says then do so. There's no need try and police the feelings of people who don't have friendly opinions on one of the most insidious, pervasive and sick terrorists groups in US history.
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Those comments aren't "people of color can't feel this way". That doesn't even make sense because we're on a forum with anonymous posters behind usernames and avatars. It's in response to the notion that he isn't really reformed or can't change or that de-radicialization doesn't really work and so on

You're conflating two separate things
 
sphagnum

sphagnum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,419
pigeon said:
White people already hang out with and eat dinner with white supremacists all the time and it doesn’t seem to be helping.
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I know you're using this in the general white supremacy and not the KKK 1488 White Supremacy way, so I'll say this: I got my dad to admit that "Lenin had some good ideas" at least.

He probably thought about it in the Bannon sense though.
 
pigeon

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
More_Badass said:
Those comments aren't "people of color can't feel this way". That doesn't even make sense because we're on a forum with anonymous posters. It's in response to the notion that he isn't really reformed or can't change or that de-radicialization doesn't really work and so on

You're conflating two separate things
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I don’t see much evidence that deradicalization does work. I see like two white supremacists who quit and a whole lot of white people who seized on them to support their argument that it’s not immoral for them to sit down to Thanksgiving dinner with their Nazi uncle.
 
Coyote Starrk

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
25,956
If someone is genuinely willing to try and better themselves or their situation then I am all for listening to them and trying to talk them through it, but there are obviously exceptions to that.

At a certain point a person is just a lost cause though and its not worth engaging them.
 
pigeon

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
sphagnum said:
I know you're using this in the general white supremacy and not the KKK 1488 White Supremacy way, so I'll say this: I got my dad to admit that "Lenin had some good ideas" at least.

He probably thought about it in the Bannon sense though.
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I know you mean well but that doesn’t quite sound like deradicalization to me. I want him to stop being a Nazi, not to understand the ethnonationalist roots behind the implementation of Naziism.
 
sphagnum

sphagnum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,419
DigitalOp said:
The answer to those events is to show love.
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If there was a white supremacist who questioned himself and the movement after having been at Charlottesville and wanted to spill his guts, I'd talk with him. Anyone still running around convinced they need to start RaHoWa? Nope.

This might be my residual Christianity seeping in.

pigeon said:
I know you mean well but that doesn’t quite sound like deradicalization to me. I want him to stop being a Nazi, not to understand the ethnonationalist roots behind the implementation of Naziism.
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Yeah, I'm still working on that. Did turn a diet racist libertarian into a sort of generic Democrat though so that's...a little bit of progress? He lives in SC so that's one less GOP vote at least.
 
pigeon

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
sphagnum said:
If there was a white supremacist who questioned himself and the movement after having been at Charlottesville and wanted to spill his guts, I'd talk with him. Anyone still running around convinced they need to start RaHoWa? Nope.

This might be my residual Christianity seeping in.
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Yeah, I can buy this. Everybody deserves forgiveness. But contrition comes first.
 
Tall4Life

Tall4Life

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,612
EdibleKnife said:
Alright. Why? If people don't want to forgive him they don't have to. Personally, I'm glad he's out of the life and trying to repent. But that's his journey. He doesn't need, nor should he want or expect the forgiveness of minorities who hate white supremacy and those who keep/kept it running. Some people have families, close and extended, current and in the past, that suffered at the hands of the bullshit this man participated gleefully in. The soul of this country is destroyed because of the efforts of men and women like him. People need to remember how easy it is for him to slough off his history as a white supremacist while it's not so easy for others. He no longer has to be a white supremacist to benefit from the actions of white supremacy, where as black people still have to and are currently dealing with the consequences of his sick religion. In that context, telling minorities how they should be feeling about this guy is BS.
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Cool, but did I ask anyone here, especially minorities here to forgive him? I'm saying we need to chill with all the screaming at him and the dismissal. He's actually trying to do shit himself to combat this, and he said that people need to fight back hard against people with his former views. You're trying to paint me as someone who wants to snuggle up with Nazis in a blanket by the campfire and forcing others to join me. I'm just saying that this dude is valuable in that he was able to identify where he went wrong and he wants to use that information along with his experience being actually part of that group to make a difference.

But I guess to you, we should probably just go back to screaming at him and ignoring him.
 
Akira86

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,128
More_Badass said:
It's in response to the notion that he isn't really reformed or can't change
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how many people have said this? if you want to argue, go deradicalize some white superemacists instead of looking down on their victims for reacting in a way that makes you uncomfortable? You'll find plenty of people ready to argue with you, I promise you.

personally I expect people like that to smarten up and to hopefully tell the people around them that they are doing wrong. But you want to argue in defense of the theory on a website, because some people reacted negatively to this person. we need people like him and we need other people to do the same things he is doing, but whatever it is you're trying to do here, is not a help.
 

Deleted member 835

User requested account deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,660
Vincent Alexander said:
I'll conjecture he probably went even further. I imagine being in such a prominent position led to some fucked up things, and it wouldn't surprise me if some lost their lives because of him.
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See if he was a non violent racist I would be more open to saying let him prove he has changed. But given that he has injured and maybe killed people just because they are black this dude deserves nothing
 
More_Badass

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,917
pigeon said:
I don’t see much evidence that deradicalization does work. I see like two white supremacists who quit and a whole lot of white people who seized on them to support their argument that it’s not immoral for them to sit down to Thanksgiving dinner with their Nazi uncle.
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There have been myriad examples ranging from cult members to young radicalized Muslims and neo-nazis.

The fact that assholes decide to use it as an excuse to deflect and shout down protests doesn't mean it doesn't work on a individual scale. I mean, that's what we're talking about here, individual people. None of this is saying that showing compassion and understanding is the way to stop neo-nazis bastards, because it isn't and doesn't do shit. None of this is some magic answer that will fix the systemic horrors going on.
 

Deleted member 19844

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,500
United States
DigitalOp said:
Someone who completely ignores what we're saying AND is using this to police how we feel.
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While I don’t think I’ve ignored what you’re saying, and I understand the causes for these reactions, I dont agree with the reaction. If that is policing your feelings, then okay, but I do think you have the right (and reasons) for feeling the way you do. I just don’t agree with the sentiment.
Beefy said:
This dude: "Hey guys, that's say minorities should be thankful a dude learned he was a racist fuck. Doesn't matter who he hurt when he was a racist fuck he has learnt not to be one so we can't call him out"
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You’re incorrectly interpreting me.
EdibleKnife said:
People really need to stop tut-ting the reactions of people of color to white supremacists. There are a lot of people on ERA and beyond who have or know people who have had emotionally, mentally and physically damaging life experiences due to the efforts of white supremacists excluding experience where life/lives were just straight up ended due to white supremacy. If you want to take notes on what the man says then do so. There's no need try and police the feelings of people who don't have friendly opinions on one of the most insidious, pervasive and sick terrorist movements in US history.
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I am a person of color who disagrees with the reactions to this guy. That’s it.
 
EdibleKnife

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
More_Badass said:
Those comments aren't "people of color can't feel this way". That doesn't even make sense because we're on a forum with anonymous posters behind usernames and avatars. It's in response to the notion that he isn't really reformed or can't change or that de-radicialization doesn't really work and so on

You're conflating two separate things
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There are several people here from Black Culture ERA in particular. Everybody in that topic could be white but I highly doubt it. And these responses like below are also directed at the fact that people are angry in the first place.

Tall4Life said:
Cool, but did I ask anyone here, especially minorities here to forgive him? I'm saying we need to chill with all the screaming at him and the dismissal. He's actually trying to do shit himself to combat this, and he said that people need to fight back hard against people with his former views. You're trying to paint me as someone who wants to snuggle up with Nazis in a blanket by the campfire and forcing others to join me. I'm just saying that this dude is valuable in that he was able to identify where he went wrong and he wants to use that information along with his experience being actually part of that group to make a difference.

But I guess to you, we should probably just go back to screaming at him and ignoring him.
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Again, why? My post stands even if people want to scream at him or ignore him. They don't have to react to this guy the way you'd like them to react to him. If they want to scream at him they're, entitled to do so. If they want to never read a word from his AMA, they're entitled to do so. He shouldn't expect a certain reaction just because he's said he's turned over a new leaf.

TreadTalks said:
I am a person of color who disagrees with the reactions to this guy. That’s it.
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You can disagree. I just feel there's no need to make people ashamed for feeling how they "should" feel in regards to a former white supremacist.
 
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Derrick01

Derrick01

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,289
The only good nazi is a dead nazi. Sure you can get one to fix themselves here and there but there's millions more who won't. Every one of them still has a chance to reform and it's before they're put in the ground.
 
Akira86

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,128
in short instead of arguing about the reactions to this guy, go do what he does and dismantle white supremacy. thanks.

i mean, if you're serious about wanting to help.
 
pigeon

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
BuddyDharma said:
Yeah. The dude who ran over folks in Charlottesville owned one of the dudes old albums. He can't take back what he did. But he claims his current program works. Similar methods with regards to other extremist ideologies seem to.
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In order to really know if it works we need to know a lot of things:

* how many people he contacts, and how many people he deradicalizes
* how many people are deradicalized by social stigma and abuse
* how many people just kind of naturally deradicalize over time
* how many people who would otherwise have become radicalized don’t because of social stigma and abuse that they know exists

Obviously, a lot of this information is nearly impossible to gather, but that’s the point. Otherwise, all we know is that people would like to believe it works. I don’t begrudge the guy for doing what he thinks is right. But I take exception to people wanting to convince me he is right.
 
Shy

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
EdibleKnife said:
Again, why? My post stands even if people want to scream at him or ignore him. They don't have to react to this guy the way you'd like them to react to him. If they want to scream at him they're, entitled to do so. If they want to never read a word from his AMA, they're entitled to do so. He shouldn't expect a certain reaction just because he's said he's turned over a new leaf.
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allegedly.
 
The Appetizer

The Appetizer

Member
Apr 24, 2018
236
DigitalOp said:
Again, all throughout this thread, his message is being used as "See, yall been doing it wrong. This is why hate continues"

As if we had any fucking involvement in any of this besides existing.
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For the record, I'm not convinced he's putting the onus on poc rather than society at large (not sure if that changes anything). All I'm saying though is there are people here accusing him of still trying to convert people to white supremacy, when he's clearly not and has accomplished the opposite. I'm not saying he deserves a medal or even endorsing his strategy.
 
pigeon

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
The Appetizer said:
For the record, I'm not convinced he's putting the onus on poc rather than society at large (not sure if that changes anything). All I'm saying though is there are people here accusing him of still trying to convert people to white supremacy, when he's clearly not and has accomplished the opposite. I'm not saying he deserves a medal or even endorsing his strategy.
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The poster isn’t saying he is putting the onus on people of color, he’s saying people in this thread are.
 
Morrigan

Morrigan

Elden Lord
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
22,920
I'm not seeing where he's asking minorities to turn the other cheek. He's just sharing his experience and what worked on him. I think it's a mistake to suggest that because it worked on him, that it will work on every individual or at the macro level, but he doesn't appear to be really saying that, at least.
nemoral said:
Asshole with a book to sell explains how it was really everyone else's fault that he was a Nazi. No thanks.
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No? He repeatedly says it was his own fault and that he projected his own insecurity and character flaws and self-hate onto others.
 
DigitalOp

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
8,345
More_Badass said:
There have been myriad examples ranging from cult members to young radicalized Muslims and neo-nazis.

The fact that assholes decide to use it as an excuse to deflect and shout down protests doesn't mean it doesn't work on a individual scale. I mean, that's what we're talking about here, individual people. None of this is saying that showing compassion and understanding is the way to stop neo-nazis bastards, because it isn't and doesn't do shit. None of this is some magic answer that will fix the systemic horrors going on.
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then we're spinning our wheels here. We only looking for the bolded.

If it comes down to changing sole individuals then alot of people def arent interested. We looking for the government to stop cracking down and trying to eradicate us.
 
pigeon

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
More_Badass said:
There have been myriad examples ranging from cult members to young radicalized Muslims and neo-nazis.

The fact that assholes decide to use it as an excuse to deflect and shout down protests doesn't mean it doesn't work on a individual scale. I mean, that's what we're talking about here, individual people. None of this is saying that showing compassion and understanding is the way to stop neo-nazis bastards, because it isn't and doesn't do shit. None of this is some magic answer that will fix the systemic horrors going on.
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Examples aren’t evidence. They’re anecdotes.
 
Wrapped in Black

Wrapped in Black

Member
Mar 10, 2018
6,591
DigitalOp said:
UGHHHH FUCK OFF. WE DONT OWE YOU SHIT!!!!! WE DONT OWE YOU A GODDAMN THING!!!!
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Funny how they talk about "don't get violent with people you disagree with," yet that's LITERALLY how this country they idealize so fucking much got founded.

Did the American colonists show compassion and understanding towards the British? How come it's okay to get violent against people because you don't like the way they're taxing you, but if someone wants you and everyone who looks like you exterminated because of the color of your skin, you must remain "civil" and "peacefully protest?" Why do the history books treat George Washington like a hero? How come if Patrick Henry says "Give me liberty, or give me death," he's a patriotic hero, but if a brown person says the same thing in response to white supremacy, he/she's a radical terrorist?

Nah, I ain't buying this "peace and love" bullshit. White supremacy is not a political opinion. It's terrorism. And it shall be treated as such.
 
Shy

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
All these fuckers are domestic terrorists. And should be treated as such.
 
Commander Quackers

Commander Quackers

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,749
Morrigan said:
I'm not seeing where he's asking minorities to turn the other cheek. He's just sharing his experience and what worked on him. I think it's a mistake to suggest that because it worked on him, that it will work on every individual or at the macro level, but he doesn't appear to be really saying that, at least.
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he ain't sayin anything that's new and different, same shit we've heard before
 
DigitalOp

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
8,345
Akira86 said:
in short instead of arguing about the reactions to this guy, go do what he does and dismantle white supremacy. thanks.

i mean, if you're serious about wanting to help.
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Tell them Akira, Tell them


Somewhatgroovy said:
I got you, DigitalOp; the dude needs to reframe his plan around how former supremist should reach out to the maginalized. Well , said.
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Theres some confusion as if Im mad that this guy is doing this at all. No, thats not why Im mad.

Im mad because when I went to read the AMA, all I was seeing was a bunch of people commenting saying "See! I knew that showing compassion was the PROPER way to fix all this, I tried to tell my friend!"

People just read what they wanted to confirm their viewpoint. Thats it, then they are going to turn around and use it against the same people who are targeted by these hate groups.

And the same thing happened in this thread. This guy also said "Angry leftists" only help perpetuate the issue. As if someone having a reaction to these aggressors has any involvement.

The current rise of Nazism, the AltRight, and its invasion of Conservative Politics is a White issue. Full stop. It begins and ends with White People.

And there are alot more people concerned about policing reactions and tone than actually trying to solve the problem.
 
pigeon

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
BuddyDharma said:
https://calhoun.nps.edu/handle/10945/4420

Of course, each deradicalization program must be tailored for each group. What's good for the (jihadi) goose isn't necessarily what's good for the (Nazi) gander.
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This is genuinely very helpful, thanks. I would observe of course that this study focuses on deradicalization of people already in prison, who have thus clearly experienced quite a bit of social stigma already. Since many American white supremacists are not in prison, but instead, e.g., President of the United States, the approach may not be fully extensible.
 
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