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Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,987
Been playing Fire Emblem Engage and I'm real fucking ready for some of Forspoken's "bad" dialogue after that.

Also I didn't know until this thread that people thought Stranger of Paradise was somehow self-aware or tongue-in-cheek. There's not a shred of self-awareness in that game. I am begging y'all to find a crumb of media literacy already.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,185
Yep. It's perfectly fine to just not buy it.
Just in case anyone isn't clear who he's directing this at:


View: https://twitter.com/imranzomg/status/1617609977476296705?s=20&t=wXNf3sLpNFz22HWet7Y0nw

lol oof. wasnt excepting a score thia low.

Fire emblem engages dialogue is the shittiest dialogue in a game ive played in years. Im sure this game isnt as bad in comparison. and yet reviewers ate into it but engage did fine.
This seems like an unfair comparison unless I misunderstand you? FE Engage's story and characters got dragged big time but the vast majority praised the game otherwise. Forspoken, in terms of its world and gameplay, has gotten a pretty mixed reception at best? That seems to be the biggest difference for anyone sweating review scores.
 

Klyka

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,468
Germany
Watching more and more clips of the dialogue makes me even more sure that this game gets piled on so hard for other reasons than its quality of writing.


View: https://twitter.com/BlondeNerd/status/1617625898001526785?s=19

Like this is not that terrible at all. Actually it's quite funny and the delivery is good.

It's an usual writing style for an AAA game but it's not the worst thing ever.

This scene is good and has actual Jack "BULLSHIT" Garland energy
 

Xion_Stellar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,286
The only winner here is Square-Enix who got away with taking Sony's money for exclusivity on a middling game so now I have to wonder if Sony will be more caatious in the future regarding exclusivity with unknown titles.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,504

Zeliard

Member
Jun 21, 2019
10,945
Watching more and more clips of the dialogue makes me even more sure that this game gets piled on so hard for other reasons than its quality of writing.


View: https://twitter.com/BlondeNerd/status/1617625898001526785?s=19

Like this is not that terrible at all. Actually it's quite funny and the delivery is good.

It's an usual writing style for an AAA game but it's not the worst thing ever.


I have no stake in this game at all but it just seems like boilerplate quippy, irreverent dialogue. All the examples I've seen are. I'm not sure why this has gotten such vitriolic focus when this writing style has been so ubiquitous in the past several years. It dominates our blockbusters and as such our popular culture.

Earnestness needs to make some kind of comeback and eventually will, across a variety of media. That's going to become the new subversion because it's now totally normal to be totally ironic, so the pendulum is just inevitably going to swing back the other way. You don't have to wink at the audience every single time.

I agree this style of dialogue is tiresome, but I also have no idea why this game in particular is getting hammered so much for it when it's just following popular trends.
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,912
Oct 27, 2017
11,510
Bandung Indonesia
Sometimes a bad character is bad simply because it is just bad and not for any other reason.

It's silly that many seem to unable to accept this.

That being said, I am interested to buy this game some time down the line, when the price is more palatable.
 

Chumunga64

Member
Jun 22, 2018
14,264
Watching more and more clips of the dialogue makes me even more sure that this game gets piled on so hard for other reasons than its quality of writing.


View: https://twitter.com/BlondeNerd/status/1617625898001526785?s=19

Like this is not that terrible at all. Actually it's quite funny and the delivery is good.

It's an usual writing style for an AAA game but it's not the worst thing ever.

uh, the person who made the tweet sincerely likes the dialogue here so it's not like she's piling it on. and it is pretty funny
 

Art_3

Banned
Aug 30, 2022
5,089
SoP really was never meant to be self aware. The game is made by Koei Tecmo, the same team that made Dissidia NT and MAAAANN it shows. You have exactly the same kind of awkward dialogue in that game.
The biggest compliment i can give yo SoP dialogue is that it's so awful that it becomes beautiful like a car wreck,basically The Room.
 

amara

Member
Nov 23, 2021
3,950
I still think it can sell decently well since Sony's been marketing it like crazy and people generally love open world games
 

Mau

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,875
I wasn't expecting 60's lol

Sucks because it's the first AAA-ish new IP from SE in… I can't remember how long. Oh well…One game to not have to add to the backlog.
 

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,719
Things like SoP(haven't played it just going by what I've seen) are very earnest in its cringe, it will take the most ridiculous premise and dialogue and play it completely straight because somehow the writers truly believed they were making gold. Sometimes that kind of madness and self confidence can exude to the point the "bad writing/dialogue" can come across as endearing.

The "marvel" style is different in that the writers seem to be aware that what they're writing is silly so they insert the snark and sarcasm as a wink to the audience to just play along, if you don't pull it off correctly( mainly by having a MC that's very charismatic) then it won't have the same sense of insane self confidence to carry it over to being endearing.

HOWEVER, the thing is it does makes more sense to do it in the context of an isekai. I think its the current wider backlash to this style of writing, lack of directorial flair, and some very cliche sounding quips at a greater frequency is what's doing the damage for Forspoken.

Also like with Mass Effect Andromeda that was never able to shake off the memes making fun of the faces/animations sometimes an aspect of a game becomes part of the narrative surrounding it and it can't shake it off. That one Forspoken trailer that went viral just hit the perfect storm to become the dominant narrative of the game.
 

Yoga Flame

Alt-Account
Banned
Sep 8, 2022
1,674
Sony's Crossfire X. It happens.

This had dogshit written all over it, I'm not surprised. Like Crossfire X.

Throw is on the pile.
 

reKon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,736
Watching more and more clips of the dialogue makes me even more sure that this game gets piled on so hard for other reasons than its quality of writing.


View: https://twitter.com/BlondeNerd/status/1617625898001526785?s=19

Like this is not that terrible at all. Actually it's quite funny and the delivery is good.

It's an usual writing style for an AAA game but it's not the worst thing ever.

I chuckled without seeing the your post to understand the context of this.
 

Dakkon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,193
Watching more and more clips of the dialogue makes me even more sure that this game gets piled on so hard for other reasons than its quality of writing.


View: https://twitter.com/BlondeNerd/status/1617625898001526785?s=19

Like this is not that terrible at all. Actually it's quite funny and the delivery is good.

It's an usual writing style for an AAA game but it's not the worst thing ever.


Without knowing much about this game, this clip like auto sold me on it if the entire game is like that.

It's Jack Garland energy and I love me some Jack Garland.
 
Nov 1, 2017
942
Some of the hate for this game seems so forced. Take this tweet for example.


View: https://twitter.com/G27Status/status/1617560414635556865?t=NfYbcbQD7rZDEPQJXZkp3g&s=19

The delivery is great. I thought it was amusing. But nah, the entire game is like the worse thing ever or something.

That was actually funny.

The criticisms around this game is tired. Suddenly quippy dialogue is out of style? Word?

Same motherfuckers out here praising Nathan Drake and Johnny Cage have a problem with this huh? OK 🙄🙄
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,655
What are you eluding to?
Racism/sexism. There is a lot of hate against the game because it has a black woman as the protagonist. This explains the heightened criticism directed at the game compared to other projects that ended up relatively middle-of-the-road as well. If the lines were delivered by a white male protagonist, people would find it more funny.
 
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Derbel McDillet

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 23, 2022
15,081
I was put off by the "freaking dragon", "I just moved shit with my freaking mind" dialogue from the trailers as well, but the dogpiling is so over the top at this point it's more embarrassing than anything I've seen from game. I don't even think it's great (some bad scenes, some totally fine scenes), but I completely agree with the people saying some of these lines could've come from Nathan Drake or Spider-Man and no one would've said anything.

Script just needed an editor to cut back on some of the jokes and prolonged reactions.

The snarkiness online today has just been so try hard for the sake of it, "lol Whedon", "lol MCU", "so cringe", is that what passes for criticism these days? You talk like that as an adult, but I'm supposed think this game is the worst thing ever.

Been playing Fire Emblem Engage and I'm real fucking ready for some of Forspoken's "bad" dialogue after that.

Also I didn't know until this thread that people thought Stranger of Paradise was somehow self-aware or tongue-in-cheek. There's not a shred of self-awareness in that game. I am begging y'all to find a crumb of media literacy already.
Wait, you don't think THIS game has a shred of self awareness?

youtu.be

Jack says Bullsh*t & plays Limp Bizkit on his phone - Stranger of Paradise Final Fantasy Origin

Jack says Bullsh*t & plays Limp Bizkit on his phone - Stranger of Paradise Final Fantasy Origin
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Racism. There is a lot of hate against the game because it has a black woman as the protagonist. This explains the heightened criticism directed at the game compared to other projects that ended up relatively middle-of-the-road as well. If the lines were delivered by a white male protagonist, people would find it more funny.
I read and watched around 10 reviews today that were all pretty middling about the game. Easy Allies were the most positive of the ones I watched. None of the reviews good or bad that discussed the dialogue were at all criticizing the main characters race. Do you have a specific reviewer you're talking about?
 

Derbel McDillet

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 23, 2022
15,081
I read and watched around 10 reviews today that were all pretty middling about the game. Easy Allies were the most positive of the ones I watched. None of the reviews good or bad that discussed the dialogue were at all criticizing the main characters race. Do you have a specific reviewer you're talking about?
I don't think they were talking about reviewers.
Also, why would a professional reviewer "criticize the main characters race"?
 

NaikoGames

Member
Aug 1, 2022
2,688
Watching more and more clips of the dialogue makes me even more sure that this game gets piled on so hard for other reasons than its quality of writing.


View: https://twitter.com/BlondeNerd/status/1617625898001526785?s=19

Like this is not that terrible at all. Actually it's quite funny and the delivery is good.

It's an usual writing style for an AAA game but it's not the worst thing ever.

alright not gonna lie this line was pretty funny, i think if the game went full parody instead of trying to have more of a serious lore it would be received much better
 

NaikoGames

Member
Aug 1, 2022
2,688
I was put off by the "freaking dragon", "I just moved shit with my freaking mind" dialogue from the trailers as well, but the dogpiling is so over the top at this point it's more embarrassing than anything I've seen from game. I don't even think it's great (some bad scenes, some totally fine scenes), but I completely agree with the people saying some of these lines could've come from Nathan Drake or Spider-Man and no one would've said anything.

Script just needed an editor to cut back on some of the jokes and prolonged reactions.

The snarkiness online today has just been so try hard for the sake of it, "lol Whedon", "lol MCU", "so cringe", is that what passes for criticism these days? You talk like that as an adult, but I'm supposed think this game is the worst thing ever.


Wait, you don't think THIS game has a shred of self awareness?

youtu.be

Jack says Bullsh*t & plays Limp Bizkit on his phone - Stranger of Paradise Final Fantasy Origin

Jack says Bullsh*t & plays Limp Bizkit on his phone - Stranger of Paradise Final Fantasy Origin
i cannot believe this is real just the way he confidently walks away 💀
 

Jerm

The Fallen
Oct 31, 2017
5,772
Racism. There is a lot of hate against the game because it has a black woman as the protagonist.

I think people keep trying to pull this card or hint at this being the reason why critics are going so heavy on the game, and I don't doubt that it's occurring in certain groups and with certain people, but this game seems to have been generally received poorly. It's bizarre to be like "you must like the game because of the main character's representation" and ignore everything that deserves criticism… like the fact Frey's dialogue is written by white people. Or Frey was created by non-black people. It feels more like pandering than a true attempt at representation.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,658
Costa Rica
I read and watched around 10 reviews today that were all pretty middling about the game. Easy Allies were the most positive of the ones I watched. None of the reviews good or bad that discussed the dialogue were at all criticizing the main characters race. Do you have a specific reviewer you're talking about?

I don't think criticizing the plot or the characters is bad per se. It's valid criticism if the plot or characters didn't work for you because they have no chemistry or their line delivery is monotone, you name it.

Where I draw the line is in this very deliberated practice of taking every small detail, every minuscule thing, every single line cut it up in a tweet and overanalyze it to call it the worst most cringiest thing ever imagined.

The last time I saw this kind of behavior was from Chuds with She-Hulk and Turning Red. That's the level of discourse we're looking at right now.
 

eathdemon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,690
I think people keep trying to pull this card or hint at this being the reason why critics are going so heavy on the game, and I don't doubt that it's occurring in certain groups and with certain people, but this game seems to have been generally received poorly. It's bizarre to be like "you must like the game because of the main character's representation" and ignore everything that deserves criticism… like the fact Frey's dialogue is written by white people. Or Frey was created by non-black people. It feels more like pandering than a true attempt at representation.
im totally there for this is a average/subpar open world game, but all the clips iv seen, same for demo playthrough the dialogue is prity funny, and likey wouldnt have cought any mention if it was spiderman/ironman saying it.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
I don't think criticizing the plot or the characters is bad per se. It's valid criticism if the plot or characters didn't work for you.

Where I draw the line is in this very deliberated practice of taking every small detail, every minuscule thing, every line cut it up in a tweet and overanalyze it to call it the worst most cringiest thing ever imagined.

The last time I saw this kind of behavior was from Chuds with She-Hulk and Turning Red.
This game seems to be fairly middle of the road according to reviews. I don't see the exorbitant amount of hate or overanalyzing you seem to see.
 

Jerm

The Fallen
Oct 31, 2017
5,772
im totally there for this is a average/subpar open world game, but all the clips iv seen, same for demo playthrough the dialogue is prity funny, and likey wouldnt have cought any mention if it was spiderman/ironman saying it.

But that's another issue itself that people keep glossing over: there's been a growing backlash against the writing and dialogue in the MCU for a few years now due to the shitty quips and one-liners. People are growing tired of that style.
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,010
Criticism of this style of writing has been rising for years now. Thor Ragnarok just got shit all over for this exact same thing. People burying their head in the sand and accusing others of racism over this game is bizarre.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Then go look at previous threads for this game on this forum. It's not hard.
Like the demo thread? I played the demo myself and read that entire thread to see how others felt about it. I thought it was just ok personally and was waiting until reviews came out. So today was the day I've read this much about the game since the demo came out. This is the first time I'm hearing about people scrutinizing the game over race. Forspoken seems to have a lot of other issues that's bringing its score down.
 

BoxManLocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
France
Some of the hate for this game seems so forced. Take this tweet for example.


View: https://twitter.com/G27Status/status/1617560414635556865?t=NfYbcbQD7rZDEPQJXZkp3g&s=19

The delivery is great. I thought it was amusing. But nah, the entire game is like the worse thing ever or something.



Oh that tweet is actually meant to shit on the dialogue ? I thought that was really good here actually.

90% of video games dialogue is drooling garbage and it's absolutely fascinating to see Gamers (tm) choose this game to take their standards sky high all of a sudden.
 

Atom

Member
Jul 25, 2021
11,461
I don't really understand the imran tweet. Was he getting harassed for saying the dialogue was bad or something? Feels like a weird thing to proactively tweet out. On its own I also think the additional context sort of misses the main idea that in a counterfactual world with a white guy protag with similar lines maybe there'd be a bit less scrutiny, and that perhaps the issue is criticizing something that's not the worst in the world as if it actually is the worst in the world, in such a way that just continues this never-ending cavalcade of capital-G Gamer hyperbole that can devolve into unnecessary toxicity on social media. Idk.

Without knowing much about this game, this clip like auto sold me on it if the entire game is like that.

It's Jack Garland energy and I love me some Jack Garland.

Having watched a lot of footage, there's a good number of jokes that work. I found myself chuckling even near the start. There's also a good number that don't, and some otherwise clunky dialogue. It's a real mixed bag of dialogue performances but if lows don't tend to bother you the highs are genuinely fun. It feels like a more hit or miss Guardians of the Galaxy or Spiderman with more jokes but also more "cringe" or stuff that misses the mark.

Wait, you don't think THIS game has a shred of self awareness?

If you read the dev interviews its very clear that its intended to be 100% serious. Not that people can't like things ironically (I certainly did for SoP), but if you play the game in Japanese it also becomes immediately apparent how straight a lot of stuff is played.

The sort of end result in the West was a kind of happy accident, with even (especially?) places like 4chan and general social media really embracing the absurdity. I don't know how relevant it is to critical reception vis a vis forspoken, since SoP sits at like a 71 or something with a ton of flak for how weird and disjointed the narrative and characters were, only really feeling endearing or at all relatable at the end, but in the social media, twitter sphere it is quite a different reaction and maybe more notable in that regard.

I read and watched around 10 reviews today that were all pretty middling about the game. Easy Allies were the most positive of the ones I watched. None of the reviews good or bad that discussed the dialogue were at all criticizing the main characters race. Do you have a specific reviewer you're talking about?

So two parts to this -- I don't think anyone is saying that the reviewers who reviewed this game are card carrying racists or something, but the idea of unconscious bias is well established. Everyone has it, and it can mean the difference between how negative one's first impression is, which can turn into a sort of self validating lens through which to view the rest of a product. Not saying that this is the difference between "this dialogue is shit" and "this is GOTY", but perhaps the difference between a stance like "this is literally the worst dialogue ever written and it is literally torture" and "I didn't care for the dialogue all that much". Maybe in aggregate across all reviewers it's only a couple points difference, idk. That's not really the issue. If we have extensive studies on unconscious bias and how it can be found in almost any context, I don't doubt that it exists in....fucking video game reviewing -- a domain that combines the exorbitant privilege and imbalance of criticism with the structural and institutionalized baggage of a traditionally white and male hobby.

The broader point is that on social media or other channels this is much more of an outright factor, particularly vis-a-vis how excessively a lot of this game is scrutinized. Like there are plenty of games which are in this sort of 7 or so ballpark that don't get as piece by piece picked apart. A lot of stuff from social media channels gets posted here ITT so there's a sort of feedback loop there as well. Very little of social media is obsessing about the other issues in the game, which is kinda telling in that regard.

Re: criticism has been rising for this sort of writing style for a while (not a point you made but dotted throughout here), absolutely. But, I mean, multiple things can be true at once.