Discussion in 'Video Games' started by DigitalOp, Nov 8, 2018.
God damn these cute little kids and their cultural erasure. I hope they burn in hell.
Please point to me where Cultural Erasure has been touted and ran into the ground?
It's easy to dimiss things when they don't affect you directly
Nailed it op.
I need a good read on who "owns" culture, if anyone knows any good books on the subject. Like, would these dances exist both as part of a racial (black) culture and a national (U.S.) culture, giving performative "ownership" to a pretty wide swath?
I hope Blizzard paid whoever invented the Russian dance the dwarves use in WoW.
OP most are not going to understand because they aren't Black.
Culture is meant to be shared and the US is the only place I've ever been where people do not embrace this and see it as a negative thing.
EDIT: Including a later post here because people keep bringing up me not mentioning events that made people in the US this way.
Take ‘The Shoot’ as an example. Right now, you could argue that it was taken from the public zeitgeist - they made a dance based on a move that the entire public is doing. As soon as they give credit to the originator, he could turn around and sue. While they could’ve sued before, it was pretty nebulous - now they have a direct legal link between the artist and the company.
Even if Epic wins the lawsuit, they could still be paying court fees, bad PR, as well as a waste of their resources.
While ethically I totally agree that a blog post giving credit would be nice, I understand why the lawyers would try to prevent it, and it sucks.
Let me say that if I created something that became super popular but never got the credit.... I would be super pissed.
one of the main points to being an artist, is to create something new and exciting and have it viewed or enjoyed by the masses, but how sad is it to have your creation’s origin lost to mainstream. Even sadder when you factor in black culture being whitewashed over.
Everything we do is ghetto until some white dude can make money from it.
At this point wouldnt it just be better for epic to hire a dance choreography to develop the dances in their game? Then they dont have to worry about backlash from taking from other cultures?
This is such a ridiculous request. Dance moves and steps of innumerable styles have been part of media and culture for decades, if not centuries. And it takes Fortnite to spark the “oh, btw, gimme money lol” reaction?
It’s just as bad credit-begging as CliffyB saying “I worked on Fortnite you know?”
Black Americans have had their culture repackaged and sold to white Americans without credit for forever. They have every right to raise concerns without being handwaved with some "dances are culture-less" and "lol they are just children" bullshit. The guy from the video in the OP doesn't even want money, just credit.
And they're only called 'white' here. In Japan, not stated otherwise, the Japanese view all characters as 'Japanese'. There was actually a paper on this.
What you're missing here is the unique relationship the US shares with Black Americans. Its an abusive one.
Financial penalty should not be the only thing keeping you from giving credit where it's due for your billion dollar software.
Jet Li recently revealed that he was uncomfortable joining the original Matrix film, because he didn't want Warner Bros to own his motion captured martial arts moves forever, to resurrect like a zombie's corpse whenever they saw fit. Gaming companies have to have the official license of FIFA, NBA, NFL, etc, to motion capture players that are in the official players association, which is why Lebron's jumper actually looks like Lebron and not some generic hand animated jump shooting motion. The choreographers in Dance Central get credited for their routines on top of the artists getting their due.
In this case, the artists aren't even asking for money or other compensation. Just "don't change the name of my shit".
Black people have founded music studios, movie studios, TV channels (the founder of BET is black and one of the richest people in the country at one point). Lebron James founded his own sports agency company with black agents.
So they can create a video game studio too if they want. Go out and make it happen.
man op, i’m sorry. there’s so much bad faith footsies in this thread. you’re right, this thread is about anti-blackness and doesn’t need to be about anything else, but any cultural misappropriation and exploitation is worth discussing. sad to see that being used as some kind of ‘GOT’CHA!’.
for example, just to use something closer to home, there’s been a lot of criticism of madonna appropriating ballroom culture and voguing to bring it to the mainstream and make billions — while the vogue artists who taught her how to do it suffered on the streets. no one ‘owns’ voguing, there’s no copyright on it, but the effects were still tangible to the community.
(and, imo, no surprise, a lot of those artists were QPOC, too)
this book, ‘soul thieves’, is one i’ve recently read, about the very subject of this op re: black culture and art and popular culture’s parasitic relationship with it. it’s really good stuff, really well-researched, super thoughtful.
tbh, i think, as white people, we owe it to black people to go out of our way to listen and understand their perspectives — because it doesn’t occur it to us. of course it doesn’t. but if we don’t try, we never will, because the mainstream tells us that our way of seeing the world is the default, the ‘norm’, and anything else is ‘abnormal’. just how i feel, imo.
The fact that so many of you are not seeing the argument about THE LACK OF CREDIT is frustrating. Collective dismissal of Black America’s cultural plight of being used & dismissed is so commonplace now. SMH. I thought Era was supposed to be better than this. Guess it’s just another forum for anonymous voices to spread lack of understanding.
Any reasoning you give me will be discrediting the popularity of black nintendo characters in order to justify the roster choices. Like seriously, I understand that but I cannot agree with it. There are 70 plus characters and not a single one is. You probably dont understand my point of view on this and I really dont expect you too but let me just say its disappointing regardless how much I love it. Thank god for black inklings and villagers but alternate colors do not stand in place for single characters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_Xd2xLAjDM this video isn't, like, scientific research or anything, but i found it interesting nonetheless.
("white people are slender" lmao)
Think of most cultures sharing theirs as a form of consensual sex while Black culture was/is a rape victim. Pretty similar concept
It's not about culture erasure it's about money. EPIC won't open the door to that scenario
It's plagiarism to be honest.
Like I totally understand that you are upset that Smash lacks black characters, but that isn't a product of western white culture, it's a product of Japanese culture, which is non-white. It's equally bad, but the source is different.
There isn't a single western third party character in Smash, they are all from Japanese companies.
The comparison to Lebron's jumper shot is great and does show how companies can profit off of things while remaining "authentic". However, someone playing a simulation of the NBA probably cares more about exact details of a basketball shot than someone who is buying meme dances on Fortnite which doesn't really have much to do with the core focus of Fortnite.
whole website dedicated to black culture in and outside of sports. They can't just take the positive accolades and then say "eh we just cover sports" when they slip up.
Not that it suddenly makes the representation adequate, but is Ganondorf not black?
How would you go about crediting people for dances when many entertainers get them from lesser known, or even unknown people in the community? Even if you did, no one is going to stop referring to the as the Fortnite dances. It just seems like a huge legal clusterfuck to me.
OP, you gotta talk to the folks in a language they understand......a Key & Peele sketch from Youtube.
In this sketch Jordan Peele's character (Guy on the left) represents the dance originator and Keegan-Michael Key's character (Guy on the right) represents Fortnite.
(Sketch ends @4:22..rest is a sizzle reel)
"I wish I was High on Potenuse" is the dancing, if that wasn't clear. Gotta be clear for some.
People want credit because that allows them to obtain future opportunities that furthers their careers and/or popularity. It's not about getting paid from Epic directly, but getting paid from some other company/person who recognizes them from Fortnite. Once they get that figurative foot in the door people will be more receptive to supporting their next project.
Just gonna quote myself from the last time this was brought up