"Fortnite Dances" is Cultural Erasure. Straight Up.

[DigitalOp]

American company copies dances from Americans and it's stealing culture from where exactly? How is it not American culture already? I mean, these aren't ancient dances passed on through the ages. Or the pinnacle of the art of dance, to be fair.

Click to shrink...

Lets try to not pretend that Black Culture is widely considered American culture.....

Yeah by definition it is, but we gonna ignore the vast amount of racist white majority who otherize us to the point of creating a "Black Culture" sub-category?

Its funny how y'all try to include us in the AMERICAN story whenever you want to attack us for taking on our own identity

An Identity we had to create because we weren't included in the first place.....

Looking around a bit it looks like Gangnam Style is called Ride The Pony. So not credited either.

Click to shrink...

and Fortnite stole that from the Koreans

 

[dabs furiously]

You can read the OP and see Im cool with kids having fun

or you can post and make shit up

DABS FURIOUSLY

Click to shrink...

I'm paying like 25 cents a post for this name, I respect the dance culture

 

[Deleted member 888]

Wait, Techno Viking guy is actually in Fortnite? LOL

Click to shrink...

Bahahaha, it actually is



Swear I didn't know that, I've never played Fortnite. Just remember him as a peak white person dancing gif.

 

[Khanimus]

It sounds like you've formed a very strong stereotype of white suburban moms.

Click to shrink...

I mean it's not like we don't have weekly threads about white suburban moms calling the police because they saw a black person tying their shoes menacingly.

 

[Papercuts]

Wait, Techno Viking guy is actually in Fortnite? LOL

Click to shrink...

Yup.

 

[Spruchy]

Credit all the dance, at the very least put the originator in the item description. I don't see why anyone would be against this.

 

[Deleted member 27471]

Like I said in my last post. I see no issue with Epic naming their dances after the artist, seems fair.

Would Epic even be able to put these artists names in without having to create time consuming negotiations and contracts allowing the use of their identity with no compensation?

Seems like Epic should just stop taking people's dance moves and make their own up.

 

[motherless]

Copyrighting body movements seems like a nightmare to be honest.

Click to shrink...

Next up copywriting a particular batting style, dribbling skill, slam dunk, how you walk across the street, how you put your sunglasses on. David Carusso would be a billionaire.

 

[SapientWolf]

Is there video of it?

Click to shrink...

Probably. It was the Bumbershoot show.

 

[HeroR]

Thanks, although that wasnt the main thrust.

Click to shrink...

The point is that the 'Moonwalk' is old and existed long before Jeffrey Daniel. So for MJ to give credit, he would have site blacks from at least the 30s.

So it's better to give credit to the thing that popularize an idea or move if the origins are lost in history like who invent the Backslide.

 

[Zukuu]

That was definitely the case during world of Warcraft times but I imagine nowadays they're mostly mo-caped by professional dancers

Click to shrink...

No. The tools nowadays - if handled by a professional - are way better to recreate moves. In particular in Fortnight, I think they do frame-by-frame animation. It's way too identical to be just "mo-capped":

 

[BernardoOne]

Wait, Techno Viking guy is actually in Fortnite? LOL

Click to shrink...

 

[Olaf]

How would you even know where a dance move originated from? Jumping on one foot and moving your arm?

Let's say Epic pays some black artist $1M for a dance move, how exactly does this change cultural erasure? It's still forever a Fortnite thing.

 

[YuYu]

I think Fornite should implement mad bald guy on ecstasy dance and also techno viking dance to be fair. They are peak white culture.

Click to shrink...

 

[Deleted member 8593]

It's especially funny because those corporations are extremely anal when it comes to copyright and trademarks but what are you gonna do.

 

[Dog]

How silly.

 

[Deleted member 364]

How silly.

Click to shrink...

 

[Cocolina]

and Fortnite stole that from the Koreans

Click to shrink...

From a Korean sure. I would like to ask if South Koreans see Gangnam Style as part of their identity.

 

[Razor Mom]

Its basically if you do the dance in public, and someone says "Thats from Fortnite!!!"

its basically this:

Click to shrink...

You can apply this logic to any thing ever invented. Everything we create is influenced by things before it. Even outright "stealing" someone else's idea but executing it in a way that reaches more people is pretty standard. This isn't erasure any more than a dominos pizza is erasing Raffaele Esposito.

 

[Blah]

If they were lifting something else like artwork or music from artists would people then have an issue with it? Is it that y'all just don't take it seriously because it's, predominately, dances from black artists?

I remember when Uncharted 4 had a painting in the background that used a picture from Assassin's Creed and they had to remove and apologize over it after backlash. The painting on the wall was completely irrelevant to the game. These dances aren't and they're essentially framing them as their own.

How is this so difficult to grasp? It's not, y'all just don't care.

 

[Deleted member 2620]

I don't think Epic needs to give credit to the Techno Viking guy or BTS or Blackpink either, no.

Click to shrink...

I don't see any problem whatsoever with Epic acknowledging all of these things as well?

 

[Moose the Fattest Cat]

<dances up to hottie in the club> hey

Bouncer: HOLD UP - do you own the rights to those moves?

<a 90s music video ensues>

 

[Raonak]

Pointing out that white people can't dance aside, which they can't, it wouldn't hurt Fornite to give some credits. Paying though? Yeah, good luck sorting that out logistically.

Click to shrink...

I mean, some white people can dance, like how some black people can't dance. I know one of my friends can boogie when he gets wasted enough.

Logistics of payment is gonna be legal hell though. Because, if you are paying for one dance, then it's favoritism.
Ideally, you should be paying the creators of every dance they use.

So business wise, you're left with 4 options:

• Pay for all dances.
• Pay for no dances.
• Remove the dances

Ideally they should just credit the originator of the dance... But that wouldn't really solve OP's issue.
People will still collectively know it as the fortnight dance.

 

[DigitalOp]

How would you even know where a dance move originated from? Jumping on one foot and moving your arm?

Let's say Epic pays some black artist $1M for a dance move, how exactly does this change cultural erasure? It's still forever a Fortnite thing.

Click to shrink...

So you're fucking asking me where the Shoot originated, and theres a fucking video in the OP....

Credit fixes erasure more than payment.

It's especially funny because those corporations are extremely anal when it comes to copyright and trademarks but what are you gonna do.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, corps can fuck you sideways with 2 sentences, but little man can't protect his own shit. Capitalism.

How silly.

Click to shrink...

Riveting thought process. I see the light now.

 

[no1]

What's "this"? The Soulja Boy dance?

Click to shrink...

I'm talking about BlocBoy's atm

 

[HeroR]

It's especially funny because those corporations are extremely anal when it comes to copyright and trademarks but what are you gonna do.

Click to shrink...

Except the dances in this case are not copyrighted or trademark. Something cooperates do through courts like Disney trying to copyright 'Wish Upon a Star' despite them not inventing that phase.

 

[WhoTurgled]

why are people being so weird in this thread, all anyone is asking for is a little credit lmao

 

[Syntsui]

They could give Blocboy 100 million dollars, make his name pop up in giant letters everytime someone uses in game an still no one would associate it with him, it is and will forever be a Fortnite dance as harsh as it may be. Crediting him wouldn't solve the appropriation issue by any means.

The masses will call it the fortnite dance the same way they called video games ''nintendos/playstations'', the same way they call bandages ''baid-aid'' and yogurts ''danones''.

 

[SageShinigami]

cultural erasure?

Be serious OP...

Click to shrink...

He's very serious. You're the one playing.

DigitalOp yeah you're right about this, and the defenses here are hella frustrating.

 

[Skux]

Like I said in my last post. I see no issue with Epic naming their dances after the artist, seems fair.

Would Epic even be able to put these artists names in without having to create time consuming negotiations and contracts allowing the use of their identity with no compensation?

Click to shrink...

This actually causes more issues than it solves. Part of the reason the dance moves are renamed is to avoid the possibility of using a trademarked name, leaving them open to litigation.

Not to mention the cultural issue of everyone claiming "I made this dance first".

 

[ynthrepic]

If they were lifting something else like artwork or music from artists would people then have an issue with it? Is it that y'all just don't take it seriously because it's, predominately, dances from black artists?

I remember when Uncharted 4 had a painting in the background that used a picture from Assassin's Creed and they had to remove and apologize over it after backlash. The painting on the wall was completely irrelevant to the game. These dances aren't and they're essentially selling them as their own.

How is this so difficult to grasp? It's not, y'all just don't care.

Click to shrink...

They used artwork from another developer likely as a placeholder and removed it because it was an obvious oversight. Im not sure how this relates at all to the current subject?

 

[TheBaldwin]

Would acknowledging the source material (say in item descriptions) mean bigger potential for a lawsuit from the originator of the dance?

 

[DigitalOp]

If they were lifting something else like artwork or music from artists would people then have an issue with it? Is it that y'all just don't take it seriously because it's, predominately, dances from black artists?

I remember when Uncharted 4 had a painting in the background that used a picture from Assassin's Creed and they had to remove and apologize over it after backlash. The painting on the wall was completely irrelevant to the game. These dances aren't and they're essentially framing them as their own.

How is this so difficult to grasp? It's not, y'all just don't care.

Click to shrink...

Excellent fucking point.

Y'all shit the bed over concept art.

But this... nah, its totally okay. Fuck the blacks.

An extension of GAMERS for sure.

 

[PhaZe 5]

copyrighting dances incoming

 

[Dog]

Riveting thought process. I see the light now.

Click to shrink...

Glad I could be of service.

 

[Plum]

I'm talking about BlocBoy's atm

Click to shrink...

That's still a singular move, exactly what copyright law says can't be copyrighted.

Individual movements or dance steps by themselves are not copyrightable, such as the basic waltz step, the hustle step, the grapevine, or the second position in classical ballet.

Click to shrink...

 

[Sim]

It'd be cool if they acknowledged the history behind the dance, even if it's just the name. Maybe it helps some people learn a thing or two about it, maybe people ignore it. Whatever, the attempt would be appreciated. If it's a potential copyright issue, then maybe that's a conversation worth having. I don't know, I would have liked to read a nice, friendly conversation about that. But hey, maybe we can just have a gamer ass argument over this and low key mock the culture too. Sure.

 

[psychowave]

what about the devs just making a video series on where they got the inspiration for the different dances? kids love to eat up any fortnite-related content, i'm sure they'd watch that

copyrighting dances incoming

Click to shrink...

that's been a thing for a while actually

 

[SHAQ]

why are people being so weird in this thread, all anyone is asking for is a little credit lmao

Click to shrink...

Somehow Epic is above giving credit with these dances. Who's to say Epic didn't invent all of them?

 

[Deleted member 4093]

If they were lifting something else like artwork or music from artists would people then have an issue with it? Is it that y'all just don't take it seriously because it's, predominately, dances from black artists?

I remember when Uncharted 4 had a painting in the background that used a picture from Assassin's Creed and they had to remove and apologize over it after backlash. The painting on the wall was completely irrelevant to the game. These dances aren't and they're essentially framing them as their own.

How is this so difficult to grasp? It's not, y'all just don't care.

Click to shrink...

Wonderful analogy.

I swear to god they do not give a fuck.

 

[PhaZe 5]

that's been a thing for a while actually

Click to shrink...

with the way digital properties are making bank off this stuff, it needs to be a little more common

 

[Deleted member 15428]

What do intellectual property lawyers say about this?

 

[Razor Mom]

So you're fucking asking me where the Shoot originated, and theres a fucking video in the OP....

Click to shrink...

And you're gonna do this with every dance? Who's to say a dance wasn't actually invented by the person that you think popularised it, but rather that they saw some kid dancing on a street corner and decided to incorporate that. Like for real, what's the plan with deciding who the credit goes to here? You want people to apply for patents?

 

[Moose the Fattest Cat]

If they were lifting something else like artwork or music from artists would people then have an issue with it? Is it that y'all just don't take it seriously because it's, predominately, dances from black artists?

I remember when Uncharted 4 had a painting in the background that used a picture from Assassin's Creed and they had to remove and apologize over it after backlash. The painting on the wall was completely irrelevant to the game. These dances aren't and they're essentially selling them as their own.

How is this so difficult to grasp? It's not, y'all just don't care.

Click to shrink...

I'm absolutely sympathetic to the appropriation argument. I think the hurdle here is that copyright law is an absurd concept to begin with, and owning/monetizing movement is a very slippery slope kind of argument.

In this specific case, I think that the classy move for Epic would be to credit the source inspiration in the dance's page on the store. Cite the sources. Offering payment begins to make it legally more strenuous, and arguably what Epic is charging you money for is the movement to your character, not the dance itself.

The aspect of this that is the nuance of copyright law is where people lose interest, because not only is it a tedious topic, but it's one that interferes with the way we interact with the games as consumers, which is as its own complete artistic piece. I suspect that's why the comments haven't been to your liking.

 

[RedOnePunch]

The legal and financial aspect of it are way above my head so I'm not going to comment on that but if the developers are clearly inspired by or copying a dance, they should give the artist credit in the game.

 

[Deleted member 888]

I mean, some white people can dance, like how some black people can't dance. I know one of my friends can boogie when he gets wasted enough.

Logistics of payment is gonna be legal hell though. Because, if you are paying for one dance, then it's favoritism.
Ideally, you should be paying the creators of every dance they use.

So business wise, you're left with 4 options:

• Pay for all dances.
• Pay for no dances.
• Remove the dances

Click to shrink...

Once white people hit the drugs or booze then they THINK they can dance. That's when smartphones are their worst enemy.

I don't see any problem whatsoever with Epic acknowledging all of these things as well?

Click to shrink...

I agree but the only issue there might be the irony in actually mentioning an artist or some sort of other videos/media directly. Hence why a lot of the time when things are done across mediums/media they come with generic or ripped off names to not infringe on trademarks/copyright.

Coca-Cola becomes Kokey-Koala, but similar colours might be used.

I mean look at this



There's plenty of things in there taken from other forms of media that mentioning by name might ironically be what infringes on copyright, but the dance itself doesn't.

What's supposed to be culturally relevant is people see something like a well-known dance and they already know what it's from. That's how the diverse and good parts of culture get shared/propagated and spread/remembered.

 

[BernardoOne]

If they were lifting something else like artwork or music from artists would people then have an issue with it? Is it that y'all just don't take it seriously because it's, predominately, dances from black artists?

I remember when Uncharted 4 had a painting in the background that used a picture from Assassin's Creed and they had to remove and apologize over it after backlash. The painting on the wall was completely irrelevant to the game. These dances aren't and they're essentially framing them as their own.

How is this so difficult to grasp? It's not, y'all just don't care.

Click to shrink...

It's not predominately dances from black artists. Have you actually played the game?

 

[Deleted member 5167]

Is it that y'all just don't take it seriously because it's, predominately, dances from black artists?

Click to shrink...

But they're not predominantly from black artists. There are enough "origin of fortnite dances!!" videos on youtube to show that.
A big chunks aren't even from 'artists' period, they're jokes from sitcoms.

 

[Cocolina]

Excellent fucking point.

Y'all shit the bed over concept art.

But this... nah, its totally okay. Fuck the blacks.

An extension of GAMERS for sure.

Click to shrink...

Who is up in arms about this?

https://www.carscoops.com/2014/02/check-out-50-gta-v-cars-and-their-real

 

[signal]

And you're gonna do this with every dance? Who's to say a dance wasn't actually invented by the person that you think popularised it, but rather that they saw some kid dancing on a street corner and decided to incorporate that. Like for real, what's the plan with deciding who the credit goes to here? You want people to apply for patents?

Click to shrink...

Just credit the inspiration. You don't need to make a universal claim about the verified origin.