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Fortnite lost its #1 most played spot on the xbox store it had since summer 2018. Gears 5 ends the run

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,325
I remember when Gears 3 peaked at 2500 players a day with less than 500 when it was night in the US. I doubt the game will be able to sustain players in the long run. I think the skill ceiling is too high.
This is my guess too. Personally I find that the way Gears' multiplayer has been designed has increasingly pandered to the core in a way which has made me feel less and less interested in it. The level to which Gears 5's multiplayer revolves around the gnasher and the wall bounce is an enormous turn off to me and I can't imagine many players new to Gears will tolerate it at all. I didn't play Gears 4 much, but Gears 5's ranked play feels more one note than I ever remember it feeling in 1 2 or 3. I guess TC's hope is that the arcade modes solve that, but I'm really unconvinced. Personally I feel like I do want a classic Gears experience, but what I think of as classic Gears multiplayer is so, so different to what Gears 5 offers.

I don't think it will get down to tiny numbers really fast or anything, but I'd be pretty surprised if this holds in the Top 10 for very long.
 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
4,290
This is my guess too. Personally I find that the way Gears' multiplayer has been designed has increasingly pandered to the core in a way which has made me feel less and less interested in it. The level to which Gears 5's multiplayer revolves around the gnasher and the wall bounce is an enormous turn off to me and I can't imagine many players new to Gears will tolerate it at all. I didn't play Gears 4 much, but Gears 5's ranked play feels more one note than I ever remember it feeling in 1 2 or 3. I guess TC's hope is that the arcade modes solve that, but I'm really unconvinced. Personally I feel like I do want a classic Gears experience, but what I think of as classic Gears multiplayer is so, so different to what Gears 5 offers.
What's great about Gears 5 is that they added two new MP modes that'll help bring in new people to the franchise, So now there's a total of three multiplayer modes that don't focus on the gnasher. Gears 5 and Game Pass should do a much better job of bringing in new people to the franchising and keeping them.

What do you think is classic Gears multiplayer? I've been playing since Gears 1, and Gears 5 feels like classic gears multiplayer perfected.
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,759
The high number of players from Game Pass isn't a bug or a slight against the game. It's the entire point.

This is my guess too. Personally I find that the way Gears' multiplayer has been designed has increasingly pandered to the core in a way which has made me feel less and less interested in it. The level to which Gears 5's multiplayer revolves around the gnasher and the wall bounce is an enormous turn off to me and I can't imagine many players new to Gears will tolerate it at all. I didn't play Gears 4 much, but Gears 5's ranked play feels more one note than I ever remember it feeling in 1 2 or 3. I guess TC's hope is that the arcade modes solve that, but I'm really unconvinced. Personally I feel like I do want a classic Gears experience, but what I think of as classic Gears multiplayer is so, so different to what Gears 5 offers.
Neither Epic nor The Coalition can destroy the Gnasher or wall-bouncing because the players invented it. They took the system and made it something glorious and entirely their own. I don't know why anyone would want to stop that. There's nothing better than just wall bouncing around some hapless fool, blasting him with a shotgun, and continuing on to fight the real opponents without even breaking your stride.

Also the high skill ceiling doesn't really hold water with me. Games like Fornite and League of Legends also have ridiculously high skill ceilings.
 

kikiribu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,643
Seems weird that Fortnite was still number 1 after all this time lol. I mean the game can be fun but number 1 spot for that long? I thought that game would have died out already. My friends who used to play it stopped at some point last year.

Guessing this had something to do with Gears being on Game Pass?
 

thePopaShots

Member
Nov 27, 2017
460
Personally, I find the sustained popularity of GTA V to be more impressive, man that game has legs. I wonder what the split will be between console/PC players with Gears 5. I made the switch to PC a couple weeks back, and I have a few friends who have as well.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,161
UK
Oh come on. That's a ridiculous exaggeration. Microsoft have been making it very easy to get Game Pass far more cheaply than it will ultimately be. There are frequently free codes around, they're offering £2 for 2 months for first time UGP subscribers (and even allow you to do that if you've signed up to GP in the past), and of course the well publicised ways you could very cheaply upgrade from Gold to UGP. It's hardly unusual for new services to try and get people in cheaply early on, but there is a huge gap between getting people to subscribe briefly for far, far less than the standard price, and getting people to subscribe long term.

The idea that there are 'hundreds' of long term subscribers for every one person who's paid £1 for a month to play Gears 5 is absurd. Christ. The five people I personally know who are doing this have all taken advantage of such a deal and I don't think any of us would consider the full price of UGP for one month let alone one year.



Personally, I would simply have ignored Gears if there wasn't a very cheap way for me to play it. I wouldn't have paid for one month of UGP at standard price for the sake of a game I thought I might get some enjoyment out of. £2 for 2 months is a no brainer however, especially as it includes Xbox Live Gold.
So is everyone only using Netflix for the free 30 days too? My post was an exaggeration, but only to compensate for the exaggeration in the post I was quoting. The reality is in the middle.

Not to mention multiplayer is a big deal for Gears 5, and for those enjoying the online play they're going to have to keep subscribing or eventually buy the game.

Also, I notice from your post that in your scenario Microsoft has gotten £2 from you where they would otherwise had £0. Perhaps you'll consider keeping your subscription alive at the end of the two months if you decide you don't want to miss out on The Outer Worlds, and then Ori 2, the day one indies, etc etc
 

RoKKeR

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,683
Incredibly impressive, especially considering it only includes the pre-launch numbers.
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,316
Can't imagine a better result if you're Microsoft and Coalition. Gotta feel good despite all the server issues it's causing.
 

Fizie

Member
Jan 21, 2018
526
Loving all the spin and anecdotal "evidence" in this thread.

A great success for TC and Gamepass.
 

JaggedSac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,507
Burbs of Atlanta
This is my guess too. Personally I find that the way Gears' multiplayer has been designed has increasingly pandered to the core in a way which has made me feel less and less interested in it. The level to which Gears 5's multiplayer revolves around the gnasher and the wall bounce is an enormous turn off to me and I can't imagine many players new to Gears will tolerate it at all. I didn't play Gears 4 much, but Gears 5's ranked play feels more one note than I ever remember it feeling in 1 2 or 3. I guess TC's hope is that the arcade modes solve that, but I'm really unconvinced. Personally I feel like I do want a classic Gears experience, but what I think of as classic Gears multiplayer is so, so different to what Gears 5 offers.

I don't think it will get down to tiny numbers really fast or anything, but I'd be pretty surprised if this holds in the Top 10 for very long.
Have you tried Arcade?
 

JaggedSac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,507
Burbs of Atlanta
So is everyone only using Netflix for the free 30 days too? My post was an exaggeration, but only to compensate for the exaggeration in the post I was quoting. The reality is in the middle.

Not to mention multiplayer is a big deal for Gears 5, and for those enjoying the online play they're going to have to keep subscribing or eventually buy the game.

Also, I notice from your post that in your scenario Microsoft has gotten £2 from you where they would otherwise had £0. Perhaps you'll consider keeping your subscription alive at the end of the two months if you decide you don't want to miss out on The Outer Worlds, and then Ori 2, the day one indies, etc etc
Yep, this is about getting butts in seats and a percentage of them sticking around. Also, most of these promotional rates are one time per account uses. Of course, you could just create a new account every time you want a game and they have a promo rate, but I can't imagine that being a ton of people.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,325
So is everyone only using Netflix for the free 30 days too? My post was an exaggeration, but only to compensate for the exaggeration in the post I was quoting. The reality is in the middle.

Also, I notice from your post that I'm your scenario Microsoft has gotten £2 from you where they would otherwise had £0. Perhaps you'll consider keeping your subscription alive at the end of the two months if you decide you don't want to miss out on The Outer Worlds
It's very unlikely I'll keep my subscription alive, for what it's worth. I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I do find it a bit painful that this thread has turned into a false dichotomy where one group is seeking to exaggerate an achievement by ignoring or otherwise understating some very important contextual facts, and another group is seeking to diminish that achievement by exaggerating said facts.

I think most people in here are actually pretty much on the same page. Most people know that the discounts and gamepass are huge contributing factors in Gears 5's placement on this chart. Most people know that a game pass download is not equivalent value to an actual sale. Most people know that Gears 5 getting up that high is really impressive. Most of the discussions on these issues are basically about "you are being too positive" and "you aren't being positive enough".

Gears getting to the top of this chart was by no means guaranteed even with Game Pass and the discounts. Gears getting to the top of the chart without those discounts would I think certainly not have happened. So Gears 5 is doing very well at launch, but is is doing very well off the back of incredibly generous deals which can't be sustainable for every big launch in future.

The high number of players from Game Pass isn't a bug or a slight against the game. It's the entire point.

Neither Epic nor The Coalition can destroy the Gnasher or wall-bouncing because the players invented it. They took the system and made it something glorious and entirely their own. I don't know why anyone would want to stop that. There's nothing better than just wall bouncing around some hapless fool, blasting him with a shotgun, and continuing on to fight the real opponents without even breaking your stride.
I think they can destroy wall bouncing, they just decided not to and, to be fair, that decision was made a long time ago. You and many others in the 'core' Gears community love wall bouncing. As someone that used to count myself such a fan, I do not enjoy wall bouncing, always saw it as a glitch, and was disappointed with Epic's decision to legitimise it. I understand why they did it, because they feared the backlash, but I think in doing so they pandered to a small crowd, turned off a lot of people, and made it extremely difficult to attract new fans. It was a decision at odds with progress and it is an increasingly big problem as Gears matures as a franchise because they can never step beyond the flaws of the cover system they built almost fifteen years ago.
 

Komo

Member
Jan 3, 2019
2,965


Personally, I'm not a fan of using the XBOX store as a metric. It's a microcosm of a microcosm here in the UK and throughout the EU. It isn't representative and so I'm always confused as to why it's used as some type of metric. Especially when, steam, paints a starkly different picture.

Nice using just the online user metric for a game which is on XGP, and forgetting to mention that if you check steamdb. It has "100,000 .. 200,000" estimated owners. Legit downplaying the PC sales so hard.

 

Serious Sam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,524
RDR2 release in october also.
That's not what I was talking about. In October of 2018 to beat Fortnite's #1 spot your game needed X amount of players, and in September 2019 to take Fortnite's #1 spot your game needs completely different Y amount of players.

You can't make claims like Gears5 is more popular than RDR2 on Xbox without knowing raw peak player numbers for each game.
 
OP
OP
Theorry

Theorry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,945
That's not what I was talking about. In October of 2018 to beat Fortnite's #1 spot your game needed X amount of players, and in September 2019 to take Fortnite's #1 spot your game needs completely different Y amount of players.

You can't make claims like Gears5 is more popular than RDR2 on Xbox without knowing raw peak player numbers for each game.
Nobody is saying what is more popular? The user asked about BLOPS 4.
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,493
So, gamepass success stories will be fun to watch for years to come, it seems.
Very happy for The Coalition and Microsoft - seems that both Gears 5 and gamepass are a massive success, there is no way a broader discussion leads to anything else than saying this is positive, in terms of reception, the service MS built and the game itself. Perhaps we can say that Gears 5 is a "service seller" instead of a system seller.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,161
UK


Personally, I'm not a fan of using the XBOX store as a metric. It's a microcosm of a microcosm here in the UK and throughout the EU. It isn't representative and so I'm always confused as to why it's used as some type of metric. Especially when, steam, paints a starkly different picture.

The irony is that the contradiction in your post is strong. Steam doesn't include anyone playing via Game Pass PC, so how is that a useful metric when discussing PC player numbers? I'm playing the game via Game Pass PC, as are the majority of others on here at least, and won't be included here on this metric. And obviously it doesn't give us any further information on Xbox player numbers either.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,325
Have you tried Arcade?
I have. It's okay. I enjoy it about as much as I enjoy ranked, to be honest. I feel like I want something in between the two offerings.

I'm really unconvinced that the best way for The Coalition to handle Gears' multiplayer is to offer two extremely different ways of playing. They may believe they're offering the best of both worlds but they're not really. They're offering something palatable to a new player, yes, but it lacks meat. On the other side they're offering something that has been catered around an increasingly small niche. This feels extremely different to the approach of most big successful multiplayer games. Whether it's Fortnite or Apex or Overwatch or R6 Siege League of Legends, you basically play the same game however good you are. They add casual modes around the side, but the main game is the main game.

Gears as a franchise has been painted into a situation where its main multiplayer struggles to appeal to new players. I think that's a huge problem for the franchise personally.
 
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Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
4,290
I have. It's okay. I enjoy it about as much as I enjoy ranked, to be honest. I feel like I want something in between the two offerings.

I'm really unconvinced that the best way for The Coalition to handle Gears' multiplayer is to offer two extremely different ways of playing. They may believe they're offering the best of both worlds but they're not really. They're offering something palatable to a new player, yes, but it lacks meat. On the other side they're offering something that has been catered around an increasingly small niche. This feels extremely different to the approach of most big successful multiplayer games. Whether it's Fortnite or Apex or Overwatch or R6 Siege League of Legends, you basically play the same game however good you are. They add casual modes around the side, but the main game is the main game.

Gears as a franchise has been painted into a situation where its main game isn't appealing to new players. I see that as a gigantic problem.
It doesn't really sound like you know what you want. Why would you want Gears to be like other multiplayer games and offer less varied content?
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,759
I think they can destroy wall bouncing, they just decided not to and, to be fair, that decision was made a long time ago. You and many others in the 'core' Gears community love wall bouncing. As someone that used to count myself such a fan, I do not enjoy wall bouncing, always saw it as a glitch, and was disappointed with Epic's decision to legitimise it. I understand why they did it, because they feared the backlash, but I think in doing so they pandered to a small crowd, turned off a lot of people, and made it extremely difficult to attract new fans. It was a decision at odds with progress and it is an increasingly big problem as Gears matures as a franchise because they can never step beyond the flaws of the cover system they built almost fifteen years ago.
I guess it's just a difference in mentality. We all started as beginners and when I got destroyed by someone wallbouncing my first thought was "wow, how can i do unto others as was done unto me" and not to just give up and quit. I don't really see how it's different from people getting demolished in their first game of Fornite or League of Legends either.
 

Dantero

Member
Jan 23, 2018
509
If the numbers are really that big than TC should starting dropping fresh content within a month or so for multiplayer while all those people are still playing. New maps new skins, escape maps you name it. Keep them attached.
 

ghostcrew

Spooking
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
8,976
United Kingdom
I understand why they did it, because they feared the backlash, but I think in doing so they pandered to a small crowd, turned off a lot of people, and made it extremely difficult to attract new fans.
I understand your criticism but meanwhile we’re in a thread about how Gears 5 is the most played game (in hours played), beating Fortnite where games like COD, Apex and RDR2 couldn’t.

It’s clearly not a small crowd that TC have “pandered” to. Gears clearly resonates with a lot of people. Again, this chart isn’t ‘people who downloaded the game for free with a trial’ or the like. It’s hours played. People are playing Gears for more time than they are any other game on the platform. They clearly haven’t turned off that many people. It’s factually not a small crowd playing it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,965
People still don’t seem to understand what gamepass is trying to do. Sure you can subscribe for $2 and then cancel
It, but that’s why they add new games to the service to keep you in it. Sure you beat the gears campaign but then you see DMC 5 sitting there and then you see oh, maybe I’ll check out sea of thieves and so on. People on this site probably aren’t the demographic since they are more likely to buy games day one, but tons of people didn’t buy a game like DMC V or just cause 4 or tomb raider etc. that’s what MS is trying to build

Just compare it to Netflix etc. they are getting you to subscribe to watch Stranger things and hoping you will stay to watch British bake off or wait until next month to see what else is new
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
2,025
People still don’t seem to understand what gamepass is trying to do. Sure you can subscribe for $2 and then cancel
It, but that’s why they add new games to the service to keep you in it. Sure you beat the gears campaign but then you see DMC 5 sitting there and then you see oh, maybe I’ll check out sea of thieves and so on. People on this site probably aren’t the demographic since they are more likely to buy games day one, but tons of people didn’t buy a game like DMC V or just cause 4 or tomb raider etc. that’s what MS is trying to build

Just compare it to Netflix etc. they are getting you to subscribe to watch Stranger things and hoping you will stay to watch British bake off or wait until next month to see what else is new

Yup.
I signed up for Audible sub just to get a few audiobooks, on the back of a cheap promo.
I’m still subscribing 1+ years later.

Most people will keep their subs. Especially when there are so many service and multiplayer games on Gamepass to keep folks hooked
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,325
I guess it's just a difference in mentality. We all started as beginners and when I got destroyed by someone wallbouncing my first thought was "wow, how can i do unto others as was done unto me" and not to just give up and quit. I don't really see how it's different from people getting demolished in their first game of Fornite or League of Legends either.
The difference is that wallbouncing was an exploit which Epic ultimately decided to legitimise rather than risk the wrath of their core fans. You're right though, it is a difference in mentality. I actively avoid using bugs and glitches and exploits and even things I feel are unbalanced in games. As for why it is different to getting beaten in other games, it really depends on whether you think wall bouncing is a good mechanic. I do not. It's unintuitive, looks awful from an animation point of view, and completely contradicts the general play of Gears which is slow, considered and weighty. It is an aberation of a game mechanic.

I understand your criticism but meanwhile we’re in a thread about how Gears 5 is the most played game (in hours played), beating Fortnite where games like COD, Apex and RDR2 couldn’t.

It’s clearly not a small crowd that TC have “pandered” to. Gears clearly resonates with a lot of people. Again, this chart isn’t ‘people who downloaded the game for free with a trial’ or the like. It’s hours played. People are playing Gears for more time than they are any other game on the platform. They clearly haven’t turned off that many people. It’s factually not a small crowd playing it.
It is ridiculously premature to look at the game's launch metrics to decide whether or not the game's multiplayer appeals to a wide crowd.
 

ghostcrew

Spooking
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
8,976
United Kingdom
It is ridiculously premature to look at the game's launch metrics to decide whether or not the game's multiplayer appeals to a wide crowd.
You’re right of course, but surely it’s equally as ridiculous to say that because Rodelero doesn’t like wall-bouncing then TC are “pandering to a small crowd” and that they’re turning off players. In a thread about how the game is being played more than flippin’ Fortnite no less.
 

Bits N Pieces

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,599
Scotland
The difference is that wallbouncing was an exploit which Epic ultimately decided to legitimise rather than risk the wrath of their core fans. You're right though, it is a difference in mentality. I actively avoid using bugs and glitches and exploits and even things I feel are unbalanced in games. As for why it is different to getting beaten in other games, it really depends on whether you think wall bouncing is a good mechanic. I do not. It's unintuitive, looks awful from an animation point of view, and completely contradicts the general play of Gears which is slow, considered and weighty. It is an aberation of a game mechanic.



It is ridiculously premature to look at the game's launch metrics to decide whether or not the game's multiplayer appeals to a wide crowd.
It is ridiculously premature to look at the game's launch metrics to decide whether or not the game's multiplayer appeals to small crowd.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,325
It is ridiculously premature to look at the game's launch metrics to decide whether or not the game's multiplayer appeals to small crowd.
Christ, think for a second. I'm not using the game's metrics as part of my argument whatsoever. Others are.

You’re right of course, but surely it’s equally as ridiculous to say that because Rodelero doesn’t like wall-bouncing then TC are “pandering to a small crowd” and that they’re turning off players. In a thread about how the game is being played more than flippin’ Fortnite no less.
This would be a fair comment if wall-bouncing was a new feature, but it isn't. There is ample evidence that the gnasher/wall-bounce meta for Gears is very popular amongst a core and not remotely so outside of it. The very existence of the arcade modes is intended to solve this problem because TC are aware of it too.

We will have to wait and see whether the arcade offering does solve the problem, but I would speculate that it won't and I have expressed why. I don't mind if people disagree with my reasoning, but these responses are mostly non-sequitur. We cannot possibly look at statistics taken from a launch weekend and figure out whether my speculation is correct. I've not hidden that I am speculating, but I have explained my reasons.
 
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Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
2,025
Most people know that the discounts and gamepass are huge contributing factors in Gears 5's placement on this chart. Most people know that a game pass download is not equivalent value to an actual sale. Most people know that Gears 5 getting up that high is really impressive. Most of the discussions on these issues are basically about "you are being too positive" and "you aren't being positive enough"..
Unless you work at Microsoft, how do you know what the comparative value is between a Gamepass download and a retail sale?
 

calibos

Member
Dec 13, 2017
61
We will have to wait and see whether the arcade offering does solve the problem,
It's solved the issue for me. I love the arcade offering. I still played a bunch of ranked last night, and was frustrated at times, but it ended up being a solid experience. Team Deathmatch always ended way more tactical than I thought it would...They are talking about adding modes and tweaking formulas so I am confident it will improve overall. The one thing I would say is that the time to kill could be slightly higher in arcade.

There is a place for wall slamming and bouncing and ping pong gnasher fighting and it is wayyyy too late to get rid of it from the series. I am glad that they have added options for people who want to play less like that.
 

Vengeance

Member
Jan 11, 2018
2,018
Well deserved. The game is a visual gem and the campaign was absolutely brilliant. It's definitely my favorite Gears game.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,325
Unless you work at Microsoft, how do you know what the comparative value is between a Gamepass download and a retail sale?
I almost don't know how to respond to this. It's obviously the case that Microsoft will see more value from a retail sale than they would a gamepass download. That's not a knock against gamepass, it's just a fact, particularly in the case that a lot of the downloads derive from a discount offer.
 

Proven

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,303
Incredible game, this could be the most successful exclusive console game this gen considering it is dethroning fortnite where huge games like RDR2 couldn’t.
 

Gundam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,762
Honestly the power of Game Pass is exciting to see. I still love collecting physical for Switch, but getting access to these AAA on launch for like a nickel has gotten me playing way more new games than I used to.
 

CaptNink

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,168
B.C, Canada
Man the downplay in this thread is unreal. But by all means, keep it up if it makes you feel better.

Anyway, awesome achievement by MS, TC, and Gamepass and well-deserved. The game is fantastic!