• We are delighted to introduce GiftBot 2.0, the next generation of our popular gifting feature. To celebrate, we'll be giving away some incredible prizes over the coming weeks in one big Giveaway Extravaganza!

Fortnite lost its #1 most played spot on the xbox store it had since summer 2018. Gears 5 ends the run

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
1,262
If it's good, if it's about the level of halo 5 or 4 than maybe initially it will but it will drop off really quickly. 343 has way more to prove than the collition does.
It has an entire two extra years of development time then any other mainline halo game (barring the first one). I'm cautiously optimistic that the game is going to be one for the books.

Not to mention 343 has gotten the MP down with Halo 5, and they had a good direction for the campaign in Halo 4. Couple that with more open traditional Halo levels, and I can see Infinite breaking records.
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,804
It has an entire two extra years of development time then any other mainline halo game (barring the first one). I'm cautiously optimistic that the game is going to be one for the books.

Not to mention 343 has gotten the MP down with Halo 5, and they had a good direction for the campaign in Halo 4. Couple that with more open traditional Halo levels, and I can see Infinite breaking records.
I don't agree and I am not alone in this that they dropped the ball hard on Halo 5 MP. I actively dislike it compared to the older games. it's also why I am unsure of halo infinite.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
1,262
Multiplayer only game vs single player campaign.
Take a look at the top games in US. The top 16 (I stopped counting) are all multiplayer games. Yes Gears has a campaign that people are playing, but even more people are playing it for the MP.
I don't agree and I am not alone in this that they dropped the ball hard on Halo 5 MP. I actively dislike it compared to the older games. it's also why I am unsure of halo infinite.
I know that plenty of people didn't like the direction of Halo 5's MP, but it was nowhere near as badly received as Halo 4 and even to an extent Reach.
I can see 343 messing with some of the abilities (but please don't remove thruster), but the core of Halo 5 MP is very solid imo.
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,804
Take a look at the top games in US. The top 16 (I stopped counting) are all multiplayer games. Yes Gears has a campaign that people are playing, but even more people are playing it for the MP.

I know that plenty of people didn't like the direction of Halo 5's MP, but it was nowhere near as badly received as Halo 4 and even to an extent Reach.
I can see 343 messing with some of the abilities (but please don't remove thruster), but the core of Halo 5 MP is very solid imo.
It was as badly recieved as Halo 4, The thing is none of 343's games have lived up to previous halo's before they took over. Halo Infinite is basically the big chance they have but there's no guarentee it's going to be a huge hit.

The main difference I see from gears to halo anymore is gears 4 was still a pretty good foundation which gears 5 took, Halo 5 to me is a poor foundation that halo infinite has, heck one of the most fundamental parts of the game the aiming is something that has turned me off of the game and I hope it's better in infinite I just won't know till i play it.
 

WarRock

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,107
Take a look at the top games in US. The top 16 (I stopped counting) are all multiplayer games. Yes Gears has a campaign that people are playing, but even more people are playing it for the MP.
Sure, but that's the differential it has over Apex. Any amount of people downloading it and kicking around the campaign for a couple hours will help.
 

joe_zazen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,456
I'm sorry but I think this is a case where people have somewhat misunderstood what Spencer is saying and have run a mile with it. Forgetting what he has said for a moment, it is very difficult to believe that sales will stick or even rise as subscriptions rise. This has been established clearly by other services in similar areas, both with sales of music as streaming services like spotify have come about, and with sales of dvs/blurays as streaming services like Netflix have come about. It would be extraordinary for subscriptions to lead to more sales in the long run based on this, and based on fairly simple logic: subscribers are unlikely to buy games they already have access to. In the longer term, the effect ramps up again, because a user stops buying products that aren't available through subscription because they're satisfied by what is.

Game Pass subscribers buying more games does not imply that subscriptions lead to purchasing more games (basic correlation vs causation issue). There are several reasons why that could be true that seem more logical:

1) Game Pass subscribers tend to be people that play more games anyway
2) Game Pass subscribers end up gaming more on Xbox rather than other platforms
3) A short term Game Pass subscriber buys a game because their subscription lapses (a common case in the aftermath of one of these big discounts I'd think)

None of the above reasons would lead to a situation where sales could be sustained if Game Pass (and similar subscription services) become widespread in the way they have in music, film and TV. As it happens, in the case of Gears, Benji has indicated that Game Pass seems to have cannibalised day one sales, something which hadn't been indicated with previous launches on Game Pass. I would expect that to be common. Game Pass is going to have upsides and downsides like these in the long run, but I expect for Microsoft any cannibalisation in sales will be more than made up for by the additional subscribers.

As I keep repeating, I'm positive about Game Pass and its future. But the notion that it's going to be all up and subscription services won't affect game sales is a fantasy.
Consumers aren’t rational.

I can only look at my own behviour, and while it doesn’t directly translate, when i was torrenting music i spent way more on actual cds. ‘Free’ access increased my appetite. A similar thing happened when i was into steam sales. The more games i had access to, the more i wanted to buy but only up to a point. Now i have a music sub and i have access to all the music, so no need to buy anything more.

Since gamepass doesn’t give access to all the games like spotify, i can see it acting as an appetite enhancer, and causing people to actually spend more on games. Not the games on the service of course, I am just talking overall spend.
 

KernelC

Member
Aug 28, 2019
170
I'm really digging it (PC here) but let's be real. Fortnite will probably be #1 again in two weeks
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
1,262
It was as badly recieved as Halo 4, The thing is none of 343's games have lived up to previous halo's before they took over. Halo Infinite is basically the big chance they have but there's no guarentee it's going to be a huge hit.

The main difference I see from gears to halo anymore is gears 4 was still a pretty good foundation which gears 5 took, Halo 5 to me is a poor foundation that halo infinite has, heck one of the most fundamental parts of the game the aiming is something that has turned me off of the game and I hope it's better in infinite I just won't know till i play it.
Uh, I was also around for the Halo 4 and Halo 5 launch. Halo 5 had no where near as bad a reception multiplayer wise. It was also consistently populated for years after launch and you can still actively find matches.
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,804
Uh, I was also around for the Halo 4 and Halo 5 launch. Halo 5 had no where near as bad a reception multiplayer wise. It was also consistently populated for years after launch and you can still actively find matches.
It doesn't mean it's a good multiplayer game. you can still find matches in pretty much every halo game.
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,804
Halo 5 has the best multiplayer of the series, I’d argue it’s still the best arena shooter in its field.
I absolutely disagree, it has the worst multuplayer in the series and has hurt the series more than any other game in the franchise, it's made me extremely wary of halo infinite and the halo franchise in general. I don't have faith in 343 because of it. The worst part is that I enjoyed halo 5 in the beta but they changed the aiming and killed it for me after that.

I disagree. I think it hit the mark quite well and a lot of people would agree.
Just as many would disagree with you. Halo 5 is a decisive game in the franchise.
 

Gamechanger87

Member
Oct 25, 2017
574
I don't, and that question is massively underspecified (how long do they subscribe for?), but I think it's important to remember how this argument started. I stated that the value of a retail sale is higher to Microsoft than the value of a download from a subscriber. A download is not equivalent to a subscription. If I become a long term subscriber to Game Pass because of Gears 5 then yes, there is big value there, but that will be the case for a small minority of those that download via gamepass.

the value of a retail sale is higher to Microsoft than the value of a download from a subscriber

This should not be a controversial statement. I feel like you're either drastically misunderstanding me, or drastically misunderstanding how these subscription systems make money and derive value from downloads. As I've said several times before, none of what I'm saying is a knock against game pass - I like game pass and am optimistic about its future (if wary of how the industry might be affected) - but it's important to understand how the model makes money.
In general, not every consumer buys games like we do. There are maybe 2-3 purchase a year for the vast majority.

Gamepass is a lower entry point they puts all these games in people’s hands and sets up significantly longer tails on games for DLC.

Most games only make money in the first month of life. Gamepass games have really long tails that can be monetized and the communities can last longer.

I’ve never played a Monster Hunter game before. Was bored and downloaded the base game on game pass two weeks ago because I didn’t want to play what I had.

I enjoyed it and bought iceborne. Without GP, they would never have gotten that sale from me because i would never give it a shot.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
1,262
It doesn't mean it's a good multiplayer game. you can still find matches in pretty much every halo game.
No, but it does mean that it was widely received as a good halo game. It didn't have nearly as much criticism as Halo 4 and it's MP is "known" for being good.

Also, you're moving the goalposts. I'm not arguing whether it was a good MP game or not. I said that it didn't have as poor of a reception as Halo 4. And that's true.
It barely misses the mark and has tainted the series for a lot of people because of the poor launch.
Halo 5 had a bad launch?
 

Gowans

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,958
North East, UK
I absolutely disagree, it has the worst multuplayer in the series and has hurt the series more than any other game in the franchise, it's made me extremely wary of halo infinite and the halo franchise in general. I don't have faith in 343 because of it. The worst part is that I enjoyed halo 5 in the beta but they changed the aiming and killed it for me after that.

Just as many would disagree with you. Halo 5 is a decisive game in the franchise.
I’m not gona argue with your opinion or tastes, for me I love it. I played some quite recently in ranked and it still holds up like nothing else for me personally.
 

Komo

Member
Jan 3, 2019
2,965
I disagree. I think it hit the mark quite well and a lot of people would agree.
I mean now yes I can see that, but launch basically went the same way as Halo 4 in my eyes and the game needed to be patched a bunch and content needed to be put out just so it was at least enjoyable to play. The two halo games 343 has made so far were just like destiny and needed to sit a year or two before they got good.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
1,262
I mean now yes I can see that, but launch basically went the same way as Halo 4 in my eyes and the game needed to be patched a bunch and content needed to be put out just so it was at least enjoyable to play. The two halo games 343 has made so far were just like destiny and needed to sit a year or two before they got good.
I.... Don't remember this at all. Yes BTB wasn't there at launch and released a few months later, but Arena and Warzone were great at launch.

I do hope though that this time around BTB doesn't take a backstage to any of the other modes. It's easily my favourite mode to play.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,391
I mean now yes I can see that, but launch basically went the same way as Halo 4 in my eyes and the game needed to be patched a bunch and content needed to be put out just so it was at least enjoyable to play. The two halo games 343 has made so far were just like destiny and needed to sit a year or two before they got good.
I get what you're saying, though we'll have to agree to disagree on the matter haha. I really enjoyed Halo 5's MP at launch, and the updates only made it better.
 

MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,419
It was as badly recieved as Halo 4, The thing is none of 343's games have lived up to previous halo's before they took over. Halo Infinite is basically the big chance they have but there's no guarentee it's going to be a huge hit.

The main difference I see from gears to halo anymore is gears 4 was still a pretty good foundation which gears 5 took, Halo 5 to me is a poor foundation that halo infinite has, heck one of the most fundamental parts of the game the aiming is something that has turned me off of the game and I hope it's better in infinite I just won't know till i play it.
As bad as 4 was and 5 (although I felt 343i found their footing more with 5, it's just that wack ass story and Locke that ruined it), no Halo game has been as bad as Reach.

Reach was so bad and it damaged the IP to the point where 4 & 5 (to a lesser extent) were still paying for its sins.
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,804
As bad as 4 was and 5 (although I felt 343i found their footing more with 5, it's just that wack ass story and Locke that ruined it), no Halo game has been as bad as Reach.

Reach was so bad and it damaged the IP to the point where 4 & 5 (to a lesser extent) were still paying for its sins.
I don't believe that at all, Reach never did damage to the halo franchise that 5 has done, 5 turned so many people that I know off of halo because of how bad it was.
 

Governergrimm

Member
Jun 25, 2019
566
I think it's safe to say that Microsoft would prefer a Game Pass sub over a game sale.
This. Gamepass represents RECURRING revenue which is more advantageous than single sales. Ignore xbox live gold. Gamepass at $10 a month over the course of a year is $120. So $120 a year per person or two games a year. So one person on game pass for 5 years averages them the same revenue as someone who buys ten games. That's worth more than single sales.
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,825
It was as badly recieved as Halo 4, The thing is none of 343's games have lived up to previous halo's before they took over. Halo Infinite is basically the big chance they have but there's no guarentee it's going to be a huge hit.

The main difference I see from gears to halo anymore is gears 4 was still a pretty good foundation which gears 5 took, Halo 5 to me is a poor foundation that halo infinite has, heck one of the most fundamental parts of the game the aiming is something that has turned me off of the game and I hope it's better in infinite I just won't know till i play it.
That’s wrong. Halo 5 gets a lot of credit for being the most balanced Arena shooter on consoles this gen. It had vocal opposition due to sprint but the game is perfectly balanced. Most people that I friended on Halo 5 early on still play the game. Halo 4 was a poor imitation of COD. Almost nobody lists it as their favorite multiplayer or thought it held up great. Halo 5 has a passionate community and the multiplayer was also well received by reviewers who rightly thought the campaign was a train wreck.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,325
Why do I need to source something that is common sense? These kind of trial subscriptions aren't some kind of new-fangled invention which we have no understanding of. Someone willing to pay £1 to try something for a month or £2 for two months is relatively unlikely to spend £10.99/mo long term thereafter. Some will, but most will not. It doesn't make it a bad ploy from Microsoft's point of view by any means, as they get a bit of money from people that would likely have ignored Gears 5 entirely otherwise, and some will stick, but based on the long history of these kind of deals, and based anecdotally on the people I know, most people will not stick with it. I wouldn't be remotely surprised if Microsoft were content with turning 20% or less of their triallists into long term subscribers.

The amount of people who are trying to make this seem like a bad thing is wild.
I mean, you're not the first person trying to push this narrative of there being loads of haters in here, but just reading through the first few pages it doesn't actually hold any water at all. The vast majority of posts in here are positive about Gears and Game Pass and most of them are overwhelmingly so. The debates in this thread are primarily between those who think that Game Pass is a unicorn and people who don't.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
2,025
Why do I need to source something that is common sense? These kind of trial subscriptions aren't some kind of new-fangled invention which we have no understanding of. Someone willing to pay £1 to try something for a month or £2 for two months is relatively unlikely to spend £10.99/mo long term thereafter. Some will, but most will not. It doesn't make it a bad ploy from Microsoft's point of view by any means, as they get a bit of money from people that would likely have ignored Gears 5 entirely otherwise, and some will stick, but based on the long history of these kind of deals, and based anecdotally on the people I know, most people will not stick with it. I wouldn't be remotely surprised if Microsoft were content with turning 20% or less of their triallists into long term subscribers.
Firstly, common sense should tell you that there’s a reason why these type of deals are very popular and prevalent.
It worked for Apple Music. It’ll work for Apple TV+. It works for Amazon Kindle Unlimited. Works for Audible.

Actually, going by anecdotal evidence, the general impression here on Era is that Gamepass is a pretty solid deal, and the service has lots of great games, with excellent titles added monthly. While - from reading what you usually post - I have no doubt that several of your acquaintances will not renew, I’m certain that retention figures for folks trialing out the subscription will be quite good and not the ‘small minority’ you allege.

Because, frankly, most People aren’t gonna play just Gears 5 for that $2. They’ll see Metro, FH4, DMC 5, KI and many other titles. And they’ll keep on playing.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,966
Even people that don't stay now, getting someone in the door is the first step to getting them to try it again in the future.

Next another game comes out and it's normal price, the yygo 'that's a good deal, I had a good time last time, I'll do it again' and they do.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,325
Firstly, common sense should tell you that there’s a reason why these type of deals are very popular and prevalent. It worked for Apple Music. It’ll work for Apple TV+. It works for Amazon Kindle Unlimited. Works for Audible.
I never said it wouldn't work.

Actually, going by anecdotal evidence, the general impression here on Era is that Gamepass is a pretty solid deal
Never judge anything anecdotally based on ERA, but yes, Game Pass is a very good deal, especially while Microsoft are discounting it significantly.

and the service has lots of great games, with excellent titles added monthly.
That's a bit further than I'd go, but yes, it has a good selection of games and they are consistently adding more.

While - from reading what you usually post - I have no doubt that several of your acquaintances will not renew, I’m certain that retention figures for folks trialing out the subscription will be quite good and not the ‘small minority’ you allege.
I don't think "quite good" and a "small minority" are opposites. If 20% (which is a small minority by any definition) of the triallists subscribe long term, that would be great. As I've said repeatedly, Game Pass is a good venture, I like it, and am optimistic about its future. It still obeys the laws of economic gravity.
 

Defect

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,602
I don't believe that at all, Reach never did damage to the halo franchise that 5 has done, 5 turned so many people that I know off of halo because of how bad it was.
You are living in some bizarro world. Reach absolutely damaged Halo and then 4 killed it. Mcc gave us a glimmer of hope but it was broken. I had no excitement for 5 and neither did my group who gave up on Halo but it actually was alright. Equal starts, better launch maps than the previous two games, a pretty good weapon sandbox that actually made Ar starts not ass.

And no, I’m not in love with the abilities but they were handled better than Reach and 4 for the most part. My main complaint is the aiming is terrible for whatever reason.

I believe they can make Infinite great. I just hope we see/play it soon.
 

Surface of Me

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,498
Lots of people of underestimate Borderlands. Maybe Fortnite is just losing some steam(temporarily) too.
I do think Fortnite must be losing steam, as games like CoD and RDR2 were both massive and didn't topple it, while we just had two games in a row that did. Not to diminish Gears 5's and BL3's accomplishments, but I do think Fortnite fatigue is at play.
 

klier

Member
Oct 29, 2017
440
This doesn't make sense, Fortnite dominates PS4 store as well right? So how can you glean the status of quality of a store from Gears (quality game) overtaking it.
I was banned over my comment.

So let me just say I own an Xbox One X (and a Switch, and a Pro), and am currently enjoying Horde in Gears 5. I am not a fanboy.