Forza 7 removing "loot boxes", paid tokens not part of FH4

Nov 15, 2017
2,013
#1
https://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/news/Forza_Summer_Update

Turn 10 studios announced in a blog post that, the prize crate, essentially loot boxes in Forza Motorsport 7, will be removed from the game completely, and paid tokens which can be used to purchase cars in game, will also not be implemented in FM7 and Forza Horizon 4.

Keep in mind though, the crates in FM7 are in game currency only, there is currently no form of microtransactions in Forza Motorsport 7. In the past Forza games, paid tokens were often added to the game some time after release, and can be entirely disabled in the optons.

One major area of discussion for the team has been prize crates. While we’ve never charged money for prize crates in Forza Motorsport 7, their presence in the game has continued to be a source of controversy. The overwhelming feedback has been that this system feels out of place in the game. After careful consideration, we have decided to completely remove prize crates from Forza Motorsport 7. Similarly, paid tokens – which were a part of previous Forza games – will not be coming to Forza Motorsport 7 or Forza Horizon 4.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,989
#5
Nice. If Gears 4 could follow suit, that would be really nice. There are still packs in that game that you can only buy with real money.
 
Mar 2, 2018
1,159
#9
Interesting. Props on them and Microsoft. I’ve seen several people bring up loot boxes and micro transactions whenever talking about MS games and how they force these in, so hopefully that’ll stop soon (as in people saying it).

Still, I think how much you were affected by any of these things in Forza was negligible. At least for me it was.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,574
PNW
#13
Can you disable tokens in FH3?

Sometimes when I look at cars, it says I need tokens even though I have like 3 mil credits, not really sure how the whole system works.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,790
#14
So there was no way of buying anything through real money in FM7? good on MS. Hopefully the rest of their games follow (or at least stick to cosmetic)
 
OP
OP
SmartWaffles
Nov 15, 2017
2,013
#16
Can you disable tokens in FH3?

Sometimes when I look at cars, it says I need tokens even though I have like 3 mil credits, not really sure how the whole system works.
Yes you can, go to marketplace in the pause menu, go to extras and you can disable tokens there.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,443
#18
With the fact that the game never used real money and lootboxes effectively multiplying your rewards very easily, I actually enjoyed the lootbox system. I hope they'll still keep a cards system or something because if played smart it gave you tons of money for free by using the right cards at the right time, not to mention it gave you extra challenges to keep you on the edge of your seat - eg. making sure you stay on track for the entire race, making sure you win by at least 50 metres, etc. etc.. It was a very enjoyable system and I wonder what will happen instead of it. But in general I don't mind them removing the concept, as random unlocks may not be particularly enticing in a driving game. Hopefully this will also clear up a lot of intentional misunderstanding about this game's lootboxes, which were by far the best implementation I've ever seen in a game since they involved no real money and were actual fun ways to make the game more varied and challenging.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,210
#22
Man it's great how long they're supporting this game. I am awful at it, but I boot it up every once in a while because it's such a looker.
 

GHG

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,500
#23
Its good that you say this. Biggest misconception since release.
They went on record and said they intended to introduce microtransactions at a later date. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out they ultimately decided not to in order to not get fully caught up in the lootbox shitstorm.

The intent was there.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,479
#25
I always felt like loot boxes dropped metacritic scores (both through grindy design decisions and reviewer distaste) of Forza 5-7, Gears 4, Halo Wars 2 at least a few points. Good to see one of the only potential reasons for concern on FH4 likely out the window.
 

ghostcrew

Spooky
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
7,265
United Kingdom
#26
The crates in FM7 are in game currency only, there is currently no form of microtransactions in Forza Motorsport 7.
It's funny that Forza 7 got such a bad reputation for 'loot boxes' when it's actually the first Forza MS game for a long time that doesn't have any microtransactions. The prize crates in the game were 100% bought with in game currency and 100% optional. It got this weird reputation that you needed to spend all of your credits on random drop loot crates instead of buying cars and it's just bonkers.

Still, good to have it in writing that they're not using tokens moving forward with Horizon 4 either. Good!
 
Oct 25, 2017
561
#29
What happens to the mods ?

Actually, I'm interested in the bonus credits/XP only.

edit: just read the article, it isn't clear for now.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
4,085
#31
FH4 will be just fine, it will have wheelspins and SUPER wheelspins. ;p]

On a serious note it's nice that MS is finally listening to what people (don't) want. I'm curious how they'll resolve the "problem" of getting mods and driver gear without the lootboxes.
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,155
#32
They went on record and said they intended to introduce microtransactions at a later date. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out they ultimately decided not to in order to not get fully caught up in the lootbox shitstorm.

The intent was there.
No idea what that has to do with the misconception arround release.
 

SpartyCrunch

Xbox
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
855
Seattle, WA
#33
They went on record and said they intended to introduce microtransactions at a later date. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out they ultimately decided not to in order to not get fully caught up in the lootbox shitstorm.

The intent was there.
Right, but the point is that the loot boxes which were there, did not unfairly unbalance the game toward people who paid for them, because it was impossible to pay really money for them.

So while there are perfectly reasonable complaints one could make about the game’s progression system, them balancing the game toward “pay to win” was always a completely bogus accusation. Because you couldn’t.
 
Oct 28, 2017
701
Montreal
#36
Always happy to hear devs moving away from progress/unlock based MTX/Lootbox systems. Considering a new Forza game comes out every year the amount of money one had to spend each entry to get most content was obscene. I'm curious to see what kind of income scheme they'll put in to maximize profits though. Without a Season Pass they're bound to have some sort of system in place to either get more money out of each purchase or get some money out of game pass players.
 

ghostcrew

Spooky
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
7,265
United Kingdom
#37
So there was no way of buying anything through real money in FM7? good on MS. Hopefully the rest of their games follow (or at least stick to cosmetic)
It had a lot of DLC support. It had the standard Forza monthly car packs that were direct purchasables. They've put out (more than) 52 new cars through the store. A ton of free cars too. But the 'loot boxes' that caused all of the controversy at launch were just random boxes that you could optional buy with in-game currency. They were never available to buy with real money.

Always happy to hear devs moving away from progress/unlock based MTX/Lootbox systems. Considering a new Forza game comes out every year the amount of money one had to spend each entry to get most content was obscene. I'm curious to see what kind of income scheme they'll put in to maximize profits though. Without a Season Pass they're bound to have some sort of system in place to either get more money out of each purchase or get some money out of game pass players.
This blog post says nothing about removing Season Pass/Car Pass or expansions. It's taking out the in-game currency only loot crates and the token system that let you buy x amount of tokens for real money (like V-bucks) that you could spend on cars. Presumably the traditional car pass model and larger expansions (Blizzard Mountain/Hot Wheels expansion) will continue.
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,155
#38
Always happy to hear devs moving away from progress/unlock based MTX/Lootbox systems. Considering a new Forza game comes out every year the amount of money one had to spend each entry to get most content was obscene. I'm curious to see what kind of income scheme they'll put in to maximize profits though. Without a Season Pass they're bound to have some sort of system in place to either get more money out of each purchase or get some money out of game pass players.
Car passes, VIP passes, Expansions.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,500
#39
FH4 will be just fine, it will have wheelspins and SUPER wheelspins. ;p]
After recently getting back into FH3, yeah, I don't see that much distinction between Wheelspins and "Here's a lootcrate you acquire through in-game methods". Not, I should add, that I found wheelspins particularly objectionable anyway.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,194
#40
Fuckin A!

Like, I think F7 is amazing (sans the buttrock soundtrack they decided to add) but the loot crate/mod system felt like needless busy work and was just there for the sake of it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,085
#41
It had a lot of DLC support. It had the standard Forza monthly car packs that were direct purchasables. They've put out (more than) 52 new cars through the store. A ton of free cars too. But the 'loot boxes' that caused all of the controversy at launch were just random boxes that you could optional buy with in-game currency. They were never available to buy with real money.
Let's not all forget that the game was designed from the ground up around lootboxes. Progressing and unlocking cool stuff was possible through them and even though it was technically possible to ignore them (I actually tried that for the first ~10 hours in FM7) it only meant you were losing out on possible much greater rewards from mods. Yes, Microsoft didn't include real currency in the game, but that's only because the playerbase became very persistent at letting Turn10 and MS know they didn't want it.
 

ghostcrew

Spooky
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
7,265
United Kingdom
#43
Let's not all forget that the game was designed from the ground up around lootboxes. Progressing and unlocking cool stuff was possible through them and even though it was technically possible to ignore them (I actually tried for the first ~10 hours in FM7) it only meant you were losing out on possible much greater rewards from mods. Yes, Microsoft didn't include real currency in the game, but that's only because the playerbase became very persistent at letting Turn10 and MS they didn't want it.
I dunno, I hear that a lot but I played tens and tens of hours of Forza 7 and have bought maybe 2 or 3 of the loot crates before realising I was better just spending my points on actual cars. Didn't ever really bother with them. Getting cars through the loot crates was a tremendously bad deal. You were wasting points most of the time. I just saw them as an option for folks that had more credits than they knew what to do with. Same with the costumes crate. I bought a couple because I had so many credits. But they were obviously nothing to do with progression.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,085
#45
I dunno, I hear that a lot but I played tens and tens of hours of Forza 7 and have bought maybe 2 or 3 of the loot crates before realising I was better just spending my points on actual cars. Didn't ever really bother with them.
As long as you were smart and were buying 20-30k lootboxes there was no way to lose money on them. Even common mods offered big bonuses (usually for 3-5 races) and you could get much more credits from the same event if you had some mods activated.

And yeah, opening lootboxes with cars was actually a bad way to spend credits. I've seen videos some youtubers made opening xx boxes in a row and in a lot of the cases the cars they got were cheap and didn't even cover the costs of buying the crate.
 

X1 Two

Banned
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,024
#46
It's funny that Forza 7 got such a bad reputation for 'loot boxes' when it's actually the first Forza MS game for a long time that doesn't have any microtransactions. The prize crates in the game were 100% bought with in game currency and 100% optional. It got this weird reputation that you needed to spend all of your credits on random drop loot crates instead of buying cars and it's just bonkers.

Still, good to have it in writing that they're not using tokens moving forward with Horizon 4 either. Good!
Doesn't change the fact that they were supposed to have tokens in the game a couple months after release. The only reason why they didn't come is because they messed up Forza 7 at launch so bad, ruining even things like VIP by turning the 2x credits into limited mod cards and alienating their most loyal fans like you couldn't believe. And shipped with half the new features being "coming soon". No Forzathon, no auction house, no leagues. They came eventually three months later, but the auction house is still a huge mess (you can't sell cars that were gifted to you) and Forzathon took until May until it was actually working without issues (like progress not tracking). Multiplayer still suffers from the worst ramming in any racing game and it didn't help that modding went to community members instead of a dedicated enforcement team. Truth is, T10 lost a lot of goodwill with FM7 and the only reason why they are doing this is because GT Sport is showing off and likely takes pole position again. It's a shame, really, because T10 used to be the innovator, the pinnacle of racing games. But they completely lost it with FM7.

But they are turning it around, I hope they have a year longer for FM8, because they clearly need it. They need a new and improved decal editor, they need a new lighting engine, they need to model coxkpits in full 3D and not just the front 120 degrees, they need to get rid of tire stack pollution, they need a working multiplayer rule system, they need to bring old favorite tracks back, they need to bring more Motorsport feeling into Forza Motorsport. The series is stagnating, but the updates look promising. Still don't understand why they teased new track limits months ago when it's still nowhere near in the game, though.

I hope they can turn it around, the Forza games are why I am in the ecosystem. And for the love of everything: Change rewards payouts for the old games to the same 500k max as for the new ones.
 
Oct 31, 2017
470
#48
With all the cosmetics for your driver and player housing I'm expecting boxes for FH4. I'm not entirely against the practice but I'm hoping we'll be able to just simply buy and or win them through the existing in game systems instead.
 

GHG

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,500
#49
Right, but the point is that the loot boxes which were there, did not unfairly unbalance the game toward people who paid for them, because it was impossible to pay really money for them.

So while there are perfectly reasonable complaints one could make about the game’s progression system, them balancing the game toward “pay to win” was always a completely bogus accusation. Because you couldn’t.
My primary gripe at launch (other than the shit-tier drivatars) was how it impacted the progression system. The whole thing was completely unnecessary.

No idea what that has to do with the misconception arround release.
It's not a misconception when they were essentially saying "shortly you will be able to pay for your lootboxes just as you can with every other game with lootboxes in them". Like I said they got caught up in it because:

a) lootboxes were in the game

And

b) the intent was there
 

ghostcrew

Spooky
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
7,265
United Kingdom
#50
As long as you were smart and were buying 20-30k lootboxes there was no way to lose money on them. Even common mods offered big bonuses (usually for 3-5 races) and you could get much more credits from the same event if you had some mods activated.

And yeah, opening lootboxes with cars was actually a bad way to spend credits. I've seen videos some youtubers made opening xx boxes in a row and in a lot of the cases the cars they got were cheap and didn't even cover the costs of buying the crate.
Yeah there was always that thing of buying mod packs and using them on 'long' versions of races instead of the standard but I don't ever do long races. Too stressful! Apparently that was the diamond way of getting a lot of credits. I always seemed to have plenty with the weekly Forza Rewards stuff and just playing the game.