Four-day week: trial finds lower stress and increased productivity (The Guardian)

[entremet]

The founder of one of the first big companies to switch to a four-day working week has called on others to follow, claiming it has resulted in a 20% rise in productivity, appeared to have helped increase profits and improved staff wellbeing.

Analysis of one of the biggest trials yet of the four-day working week has revealed no fall in output, reduced stress and increased staff engagement, fuelling hopes that a better work-life balance for millions could be in sight.

Perpetual Guardian, a New Zealand financial services company, switched its 240 staff from a five-day to a four-day week last November and maintained their pay. Productivity increased in the four days they worked so there was no drop in the total amount of work done, a study of the trial released on Tuesday has revealed.
The trial was monitored by academics at the University of Auckland and Auckland University of Technology. Among the Perpetual Guardian staff they found scores given by workers about leadership, stimulation, empowerment and commitment all increased compared with a 2017 survey.

Details of an earlier trial showed the biggest increases were in commitment and empowerment. Staff stress levels were down from 45% to 38%. Work-life balance scores increased from 54% to 78%.

"This is an idea whose time has come," said Andrew Barnes, Perpetual Guardian's founder and chief executive. "We need to get more companies to give it a go. They will be surprised at the improvement in their company, their staff and in their wider community."

He has this week released a how-to-guide for other organisations, including findings from the trial and implementation.

Come on, baby. Let's go! Let's make this the norm.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...study-finds-lower-stress-but-no-cut-in-output

 

[Possum Armada]

I've argued for this for years. I've noticed I am super productive and happy on weeks when I take a extra day off. The quality of my works seems to go way up as well.

 

[maxxpower]

Not happening in the US for a long time.

 

[WereSalamander]

Obviously I love the idea (who in their right mind wouldn't?) but can't see most companies picking it up. Their management would rather blame their mistakes and inefficiencies on staff and raise work hours instead.

Also I doubt companies will raise wages to compensate, which means employees might be resistant to this idea of working less.

 

[entremet]

Not happening in the US for a long time.

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It can happen. Weekends were not a thing and they happened. Obviously took a very dedicated labor movement. But not improbable at all.

 

[mrmoose]

I'm a bit skeptical. I just can't see how productivity is the same in a four day 32 hour week as a it would be for a five day week, at least in many jobs. I understand stress levels would be down and it's an extra day not to commute, it's just I've seen what happens in four day weeks when we have three day holidays and it's not pretty. Of course, if that's the norm maybe it's a lot different. But it probably really, really depends on the industry.

 

[WereSalamander]

It can happen. Weekends were not a thing and they happened. Obviously took a very dedicated labor movement. But not improbable at all.

Click to shrink...

Unions have been dying for a very long time here in the US.

Work culture has become twisted too in some areas, leading people to believe that if you're not working 10+ hours a day 6 days a week, you're not being productive and you are wasting your life and have less value as a human being.

 

[Pokiehl]

I do this, I typically work 10-12 hour days, working through lunch. I can't say it makes me happier overall but I know I save more money/time from commuting less.

 

[Bessy67]

I'm paid by the hour, so I'm all for four 10 hour days but hell no to four 8 hour days.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Not happening in the US for a long time.

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Not on a nation wide basis, but there are companies doing this in the US.

 

[Pekola]

I'm paid by the hour, so I'm all for four 10 hour days but hell no to four 8 hour days.

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What about being paid the equivalent you're being paid now, but working less hours?

 

[Dougieflesh]

My job gives us 4 10 hour work days. People got so used to it, that they don't want to leave and work another job that makes them work 5 days a week

 

[PrimeBeef]

I'm paid by the hour, so I'm all for four 10 hour days but hell no to four 8 hour days.

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I work 2 7s, and 2 9s, with 1 6hr Saturday and 2 6hr Friday's a month. I average less than 40 a week. Couldn't be happier.

 

[Acorn]

It can happen. Weekends were not a thing and they happened. Obviously took a very dedicated labor movement. But not improbable at all.

Click to shrink...

Unions have been crippled since the 80s on both sides of the Atlantic. I'd wager some demonisation will pop up in this very thread about them too.

 

[entremet]

I do this, I typically work 10-12 hour days, working through lunch. I can't say it makes me happier overall but I know I save more money/time from commuting less.

Click to shrink...

4 tens is rather tiring as well, especially if you're a knowledge worker. Cognitive scientists have posited that most people can only do 3-5 hour of mentally taxing work per day.

Even world class concert classical musicians tap out of practice at 4-5 hours daily. Plus add commuting time to 10 hour shifts and it is even worse. Unless you need little sleep or our sleep deprived, you have no real margin in your day.

 

[Cort]

I'm paid by the hour, so I'm all for four 10 hour days but hell no to four 8 hour days.

Click to shrink...

Heck yes, 4 days working 10 hour shifts are the dream.

 

[Biske]

Especially as an office worker, I can tell you this, over the course of a week, me and my coworkers (at every company I've ever worked at) waste at least, AT LEAST a day of combined time just fucking around because we all hate being there so much.

So yeah if I had a free day, I'd be a lot more happy at work and a lot more willing to work. Instead these dumb fuck companies think propping up their poor planning and incompetence with making their over worked, over stressed, unhappy employees work overtime to make up for the lack.

 

[Pooh]

At my job we have a summer month where we get Fridays off and it's the best damn thing ever, I actually like working during that time because I feel way more rested

 

[Eila]

Mon-Thrusday work week would be amazing. Even if the hours are increased to 10 hours, I'd say. Maybe do 9 and call it a day.

 

[Kenai]

I work four 9 hour days and a half day at my current job and have loved it, working an extra hour and making it 4 days period sounds even better to me.

What about being paid the equivalent you're being paid now, but working less hours?

Click to shrink...

That sounds like one of those things that's nice to want but very unlikely to actually happen :(

 

[nightstalker962]

I'd rather just have 30 hour work weeks.

 

[entremet]

Especially as an office worker, I can tell you this, over the course of a week, me and my coworkers (at every company I've ever worked at) waste at least, AT LEAST a day of combined time just fucking around because we all hate being there so much.

So yeah if I had a free day, I'd be a lot more happy at work and a lot more willing to work. Instead these dumb fuck companies think propping up their poor planning and incompetence with making their over worked, over stressed, unhappy employees work overtime to make up for the lack.

Click to shrink...

Modern corporate management is based on the work of Frederick Taylor, who looked at knowledge work output like a factory, so we follow factory style work schedules. It's ass backwards. Later, business thinkers like Peter Drucker turned that theory on its heels. But conventional schedules still prevail.

Moreover, the type of people that make these decisions, the CEOs and COO tend to subscribe to the work hard play hard ethos. All the CEOs I've worked for have been workaholics.

 

[Bessy67]

What about being paid the equivalent you're being paid now, but working less hours?

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Sure. I'd also love to be paid millions of dollars to do nothing but that's never happening either

 

[Masoyama]

Staying up to 8 PM in the office sounds miserable though. I like finishing by 6 and having the extra time every day to go do sports, shop, etc. Having to schedule 5 days of meetings with outside providers and suppliers also sounds terrible. No one is going to be OK at the idea of coming to your office at 6 PM for a 2 hour meeting.

 

[Acorn]

Mon-Thrusday work week would be amazing. Even if the hours are increased to 10 hours, I'd say. Maybe do 9 and call it a day.

Click to shrink...

I did a job with 3 12 hours shifts then 3 days off. It sounds great but it sucks, I mean the job sucked too so that didn't help but it played havoc with my body and life.

 

[bangai-o]

People working beyond 8 hour shifts are obviously becoming less and less productive as the hour progress. It would make more sense to just get the next shift in at around hour 6.

 

[Madison]

Treating people like people makes them work good?

 

[Byakuya769]

I'm a bit skeptical. I just can't see how productivity is the same in a four day 32 hour week as a it would be for a five day week, at least in many jobs. I understand stress levels would be down and it's an extra day not to commute, it's just I've seen what happens in four day weeks when we have three day holidays and it's not pretty. Of course, if that's the norm maybe it's a lot different. But it probably really, really depends on the industry.

Click to shrink...

It's financial services — a lot of people waste hours each week arguing about dumb shit, fighting turf wars and water cooler talk.

 

[Pekola]

It's not just 4 days a week either. I think there's plenty of research done on how eight hour workdays are too much.At a certain point

Also, imagine having more time to pursue other interests as opposed to your job taking up so much of your time/identity?

 

[Old Man Spike]

I had a college professor (ethics, I think) who argued the merits of this system and swore a 4-day, 40-hour work week was the future of the American workforce.

Still waiting, Professor.

 

[PeskyToaster]

By 4 day work week are we talkin 32 hours or still 40 hours?

 

[mrmoose]

Especially as an office worker, I can tell you this, over the course of a week, me and my coworkers (at every company I've ever worked at) waste at least, AT LEAST a day of combined time just fucking around because we all hate being there so much.

So yeah if I had a free day, I'd be a lot more happy at work and a lot more willing to work. Instead these dumb fuck companies think propping up their poor planning and incompetence with making their over worked, over stressed, unhappy employees work overtime to make up for the lack.

Click to shrink...

Do you really think, once you settle in to a four day work week, you'd be more productive instead of wasting a similar percentage of time screwing around?

Like I can see the argument that Fridays aren't as productive because people are just looking at the clock waiting to go home. I'm not sure how that changes if you make Thursday the new Friday (or Tuesday the new Monday or whatever).

 

[ZackieChan]

Trying to figure out how to do this for my business (lawyer). It would give me an extra day just to concentrate on side businesses, which would be awesome.
Maybe just being clear that Fridays are "emergencies only".

 

[Acorn]

I had a college professor (ethics, I think) who argued the merits of this system and swore a 4-day, 40-hour work week was the future of the American workforce.

Still waiting, Professor.

Click to shrink...

Keynes famously said we'd have the four hour work day by now.

 

[Thordinson]

Staying up to 8 PM in the office sounds miserable though. I like finishing by 6 and having the extra time every day to go do sports, shop, etc. Having to schedule 5 days of meetings with outside providers and suppliers also sounds terrible. No one is going to be OK at the idea of coming to your office at 6 PM for a 2 hour meeting.

Click to shrink...

The study cut the amount of hours down by a day. They actually worked less.

"We've been treated like adults and I think as a result everyone is behaving like adults," said Tammy Barker, a branch manager who was part of the trial that cut the working week from 37.5 hours to 30."

Click to shrink...

By 4 day work week are we talkin 32 hours or still 40 hours?

Click to shrink...

32 hours.

I think this is a great idea. People would be happier overall. The problem is still people thinking if they aren't working a ton, they are wasting time or being lazy. Hopefully, we can change that mentality soon.

 

[Masoyama]

It's not just 4 days a week either. I think there's plenty of research done on how eight hour workdays are too much.

At a certain point, productivity goes down. And imagine having more time to pursue other interests as opposed to your job taking up so much of your time/identity?

Click to shrink...

Which is why you should analyze your productivity constantly and come up with schedule about how to best block out your day. I usually divide it into 4 chunks as a research engineer.

1) Early morning is the heaviest workload on the brain, the heavy math stuff and the abstract stuff.

2) Before lunch I review results from previous days and look over data from my workmates (but alone).

3) After Lunch is meetings with other groups and going through data within the group or helping out people.

4) Last few hours I usually end up writing reports, sending out emails, and doing the repetitive math and engineering stuff.

Done at 5-6 which lets me go do sports or play DnD with my friends or watch movies or whatever.

 

[Pwnz]

I'm all for this. But make it so not everybody has the same 3 days off. Would make bank, doctor visits etc way easier

 

[Rigbones]

4 tens is rather tiring as well, especially if you're a knowledge worker. Cognitive scientists have posited that most people can only do 3-5 hour of mentally taxing work per day.

Even world class concert classical musicians tap out of practice at 4-5 hours daily. Plus add commuting time to 10 hour shifts and it is even worse. Unless you need little sleep or our sleep deprived, you have no real margin in your day.

Click to shrink...

Yeah I don't know how I would survive four ten hour days. Assuming a reasonable 30 minute commute to work, 30 minutes back, 30 minutes for lunch, and 8 hours for sleep, and 30 minutes to get ready for work in the morning, there's only four hours left in the day. By the time you work out, prepare dinner, do whatever daily errands you have to do, you're done. God forbid you have a longer commute or take a longer lunch. I feel like I would spend all of my Fridays off collapsed in bed, lol.

But the truth is that five 8 hour days is also really tiring for me. I know this could sound spoiled/privileged, but 40 hours of work a weeks is just too much. It's really depressing that during the colder months of the year I'll spend all sunlit hours at work for 5 out of 7 days.

 

[Chasm of the Abyss]

I've got my business to the point where I work maybe 18-22hrs a week.

It used to be at least double that.

Well worth the hard work at first.

Now I make a ton of money and it feels like I hardly work for it.

 

[Biske]

Do you really think, once you settle in to a four day work week, you'd be more productive instead of wasting a similar percentage of time screwing around?

Like I can see the argument that Fridays aren't as productive because people are just looking at the clock waiting to go home. I'm not sure how that changes if you make Thursday the new Friday (or Tuesday the new Monday or whatever).

Click to shrink...

Yes.

Here is the thing, I know I'm stuck at work all week, so who gives a shit, I have plenty of time to stretch things out to fill the time I don't want to be there. There comes a point where you feel all your time and energy is poured down the drain at work. Having an extra day of free time is unbelievably huge in terms of stress relief.

Then I would know I have less time at work so I should make it count.


Or you know, fuck it, work me like a disrespected dog and see how great work that produces.

 

[StereoVSN]

Not happening in the US for a long time.

Click to shrink...

Or Asia. Hell, in China tech companies are doing 996 thing which is 9 to 9, 6 days a week.

 

[Pekola]

But the truth is that five 8 hour days is also really tiring for me. I know this could sound spoiled/privileged, but 40 hours of work a weeks is just too much. It's really depressing that during the colder months of the year I'll spend all sunlit hours at work for 5 out of 7 days.

Click to shrink...

It doesn't, love. I think eight hour work days don't really account for the reality of people in the United States. You're working 7.5-8 hours a day. But your commute to/from can be from 30 minutes to an hour.

It's exausting for neurotypical people. Imagine how much more it can be for people with disabilities and disorders. People with kids, ect.

I think we can do better by people. But only if we reframe the conversation and make workers a priority.

 

[entremet]

Or Asia. Hell, in China tech companies are doing 996 thing which is 9 to 9, 6 days a week.

Click to shrink...

Oh God.

 

[Vonnegut]

If I have to work 10 hours a day for those 4 days, then this doesn't really help me. I'll still be exhausted.

Since technology has facilitated greater output from employees, why are we still expected to work 40 hours a week?

Perhaps in the next 100 years, people won't have to work more than 20 hours a week.

 

[John Rabbit]

This is a nice idea but I don't see how I'm going to get done in 32 hours what I barely get done in 40. I don't goof off that much at work so there's not a lot of wasted time that would suddenly be removed in this scenario.

I'd work four 10s though.

 

[Silver-Streak]

The best schedule I ever worked was Monday-Tuesday, Thursday-Friday. Even though they were 10 hour shifts, only working 2 days consecutivey relieved so much stress, and having Wednesday off let me do things I needed to do during normal business hours.

(Basically, the mentality of "Either tomorrow is one of my "Fridays" or tomorrow is a day off" was one of the biggest relaxants there could be)

 

[Rendering...]

No kidding. But of course the US won't do this ever because it makes too much sense.

The best schedule I ever worked was Monday-Tuesday, Thursday-Friday. Even though they were 10 hour shifts, only working 2 days consecutivey relieved so much stress, and having Wednesday off let me do things I needed to do during normal business hours.

(Basically, the mentality of "Either tomorrow is one of my "Fridays" or tomorrow is a day off" was one of the biggest relaxants there could be)

Click to shrink...

I've worked similar schedules and they're a godsend.

5 work days in a row, nooooo thank you.

 

[Kyuur]

Have there been any studies or trials on the effects of this for businesses that require high staff availability (like retail)? I'd be interested to see if there was decreased turnover to make up for the additional staff they'd have to hire. Additional productivity isn't necessarily useful in all business sectors.

 

[BringBackSonics]

I loved 4-10s in my office, it's nice having that extra day during the week. Plus the shift from 8 to 10 hours, only takes a couple of weeks to get used too.

 

[NineConsonants]

I'm a bit skeptical. I just can't see how productivity is the same in a four day 32 hour week as a it would be for a five day week, at least in many jobs. I understand stress levels would be down and it's an extra day not to commute, it's just I've seen what happens in four day weeks when we have three day holidays and it's not pretty. Of course, if that's the norm maybe it's a lot different. But it probably really, really depends on the industry.

Click to shrink...

Because just because you work linger doesn't mean you're productive. And there's a good chance that long work hours one week make you less productive the next week. Building up stress just hurts your productivity.