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Four-day week: trial finds lower stress and increased productivity (The Guardian)
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I really like my job and there's always tons to do. It's really easy to find just one or two more things to do and I end up staying longer than I should 5 days a week. A 4 day week would be good for me because I'd spend less time there, but I have a job that needs to be covered 7 days a week and needs multiple people every day so it would create a staffing issue. It's not just about getting 40 hours of work done per employee, but making sure enough of the tasks are done every day.
I worked in a warehouse for a while, on Sundays we got time and a half pay and most people were scheduled 5 hour shifts on Sundays. Sometimes they'd ask people to stay longer than 5 hours, you'd think most people would gladly stay longer for the time and a half, but nope, most people would bust ass for those 5 hours so they can get their shit done and go home. Productivity on Sundays was always better than a normal work day.
At the same warehouse job I remember myself and pretty much every employee would milk tasks and spread shit out so it takes the entire day, because it didn't matter if you finished early, they'd just find bullshit work for you or you just stood around and tried to look busy when a manager rolled around.
At the same warehouse job I remember myself and pretty much every employee would milk tasks and spread shit out so it takes the entire day, because it didn't matter if you finished early, they'd just find bullshit work for you or you just stood around and tried to look busy when a manager rolled around.
I understand that, I just don't see how you're going to get the same amount of work done. If the expectations were lowered then that's fine, otherwise I'd think you'd find a lot of added stress just trying to meet the same deadlines. But of course that depends on the job. But if you're stressed out at work now you're probably working pretty hard for most of those 40 hours.
The other wrinkle in this is that you'd have to change a variety of laws including overtime and even what qualifies you for full time benefits, at least in the US. But the biggest barrier is having them pay you the same for 32 official hours on the clock as they did for 40.
This is a huge barrier to something like 4 day work weeks. There is this mindset of "I have more worth if I kill myself hustling." It's cool to overwork yourself now. I hear stuff like this here in the Bay Area a lot. Self value is very connected to how much you work.
Not sure if you're talking about the tech sector but at least in that sector it's not because it's cool, it's because companies stack rank your accomplishments against other employees when it comes to promotions, raises, whatever and it becomes a culture, especially in start ups where the mindset is you have to make sacrifices. At least that's what I've seen.
Back to the four tens talk, I don't think I'd ever see my kids on those four days, depending on commute time. Like they'd be going to bed by the time I got home.
I would be interested in seeing alternates such as this applied to the typical 5 days a week education system. Some districts are doing early release on one of the days to allow for teacher collaboration, but I am not aware of a straight up 4 days a week academic schedule for K-12.
I think part of that is, who watches your kid on that day when you have a typical five day work week?
I took tuesday off last week so my week was 2 days off, 2 work days, one day off, 2 work days, 2 days off. I don't even feel like I have worked lol
I work at an office and the same exact thing can be said of me and my coworkers. When the clock strikes 4pm we're already mentally done for the day.
Not convinced that this is more efficient on a wide scale. Maybe for certain companies in certain sectors with certain employees. Maybe better would be a lunchtime release on Fridays as a good compromise.
The other issue is that unless everyone adopts this all at once due to federal intervention of some type, there's just no way the economy would function correctly. So many business to business relationships would get screwed up. I work in consulting for example, and there's no way we take fridays off unless our client does too, and then there's the school and childcare situation.
Also lets say this happens, does it only happen for office workers? Isn't it kind of hypocritical to expect that white collar people get 32 hour weeks while the service and blue collar workers keep the economy going? Do we expect the stores to be open on Friday while we're off? Do we expect the plumber to come out on a Friday? Unless they too go to 32 hour salaried type of schedule and split the work weeks up. Speaking of which, I guess everybody goes salaried too to maintain the same pay?
You'd have to sync this all up and there would be a lot to sort through. My spur of the moment analysis also tells me that the labor push for 40 hour weeks was probably a lot easier back in the day when women were at home and the world wasn't so interconnected.
The other issue is that unless everyone adopts this all at once due to federal intervention of some type, there's just no way the economy would function correctly. So many business to business relationships would get screwed up. I work in consulting for example, and there's no way we take fridays off unless our client does too, and then there's the school and childcare situation.
Also lets say this happens, does it only happen for office workers? Isn't it kind of hypocritical to expect that white collar people get 32 hour weeks while the service and blue collar workers keep the economy going? Do we expect the stores to be open on Friday while we're off? Do we expect the plumber to come out on a Friday? Unless they too go to 32 hour salaried type of schedule and split the work weeks up. Speaking of which, I guess everybody goes salaried too to maintain the same pay?
You'd have to sync this all up and there would be a lot to sort through. My spur of the moment analysis also tells me that the labor push for 40 hour weeks was probably a lot easier back in the day when women were at home and the world wasn't so interconnected.
Yep. I've always said this. It's nice to want things-but for most jobs this just isn't going to be feasible.
Exactly, I'd be shocked to find this isn't the case at most workplaces.
Obviously this is very anecdotal but it seems more and more... people hate fucking working, which I'm sure has always been the case but as I've gone through the work force over the past 10-15 years it definitely seems companies have higher turn over as people really learn that the company doesn't give a shit about them, so there is no real reason to really give a shit, especially as pay hasn't risen to match the improvements in performance and productivity. Nothing is ever done to try and improve morale and well being of employees.
At some point companies are going to have to start think about such things or they will face an increasing future of hiring new people every few months to combat turn over.
The whole mentality of "give everything to your job!! MORE MORE MORE!" just isn't going to cut it.
Uhm there is nothing about this that says companies have to close everything down on a day, just employees work less, so you'd solve it by just spreading schedules out... if one employee works monday through thursday another works tuesday through friday, etc. It's really not that complicated.
Very soon I'm returning to a 4 day work week after 15 years. I can not wait to have Fridays to myself again.
I'm exhausted from 8 hours anyways so let's get er done in 4 days.
Friday's, sleep in late, grab lunch, go to the movies... and the "weekend" hasn't even started yet.
I'm exhausted from 8 hours anyways so let's get er done in 4 days.
Friday's, sleep in late, grab lunch, go to the movies... and the "weekend" hasn't even started yet.
I can't imagine the day when employers here will treat us like human beings, too many here act like we're thieves stealing their precious money, and our cover is pretending to work. It's like they believe they could crank these designs out on their own, and we were just there picking our nose.
For as long as employers see paying us as us stealing from them, I doubt 4 days week will ever be a thing here. They'd be too busy thinking about how much they "lost" instead of improving our quality of life to up our productivity and loyalty for the company.
China here by the way.
For as long as employers see paying us as us stealing from them, I doubt 4 days week will ever be a thing here. They'd be too busy thinking about how much they "lost" instead of improving our quality of life to up our productivity and loyalty for the company.
China here by the way.
It probably depends on the job. Most office jobs I know could definitely be done with 20% less time, considering the amount of time wasted between various things. On the other hand, production lines and such would not be able to do the same amount of stuff done with 8 hours less, with many cases where even 40 hours were not enough to fulfill certain orders. I really hope that less hours of work will become a thing in the future where I live and work. I'd settle for 36, for a start, get an afternoon off to relax a bit would already make a huge difference.
A lot of people working office jobs don't actually have enough tasks they need to accomplish to fill a 40-hour week. It's not the case for me, but we have had threads about it on this site in the past, and I was surprised at how common it seems to be.
Some people work in industries that have inconsistent or seasonal shifts in demand. Others are part of a pipeline, and may have nothing to do when there are delays in earlier stages in the pipeline. Still others are simply more efficient than their colleagues, but get similar assignments.
Most of us in the US can't even get them to include break and lunch time into the entirety of the day - but I hope it comes for everyone.
I work a four day week and I love it. The extra day out of the office each week is seriously life changing. Especially when you can simply burn one vacation day and get four straight days off. Makes planning trips and other things so much easier.
I work a four day week and I love it. The extra day out of the office each week is seriously life changing. Especially when you can simply burn one vacation day and get four straight days off. Makes planning trips and other things so much easier.
Other than the reasons that ppl have already provided, the whole notion of the "America dream" intertwined with "immigrants are stealing our jobs" would never allow this to happen.
Beyond that, If we're talking about things that help/empower workers, i'd like if we'd all chip in to be far less discrete and secretive about how much people make. If I'm gonna bust my ass for 50+ hours a week, fine but I want the piece of mind and leverage to know that I'm getting paid what I deserve
Beyond that, If we're talking about things that help/empower workers, i'd like if we'd all chip in to be far less discrete and secretive about how much people make. If I'm gonna bust my ass for 50+ hours a week, fine but I want the piece of mind and leverage to know that I'm getting paid what I deserve
Yeah, we've known this for a while now. Unfortunately, a lot of people in the US (and even on this forum) will never warm to the idea of working less than 40 hours per week. We had people in the Rockstar crunch thread almost bragging about their 60-hour work weeks, like it was a thing to be proud of. Though I'm not sure if that was genuine or just another case of gamers feeling the need to defend shitty corporate policies for their favorite companies.
America is more likely to make 60hr work weeks the new standard than this ever happening. Sadly too many people equate their value with how much/long they work. Most people don't tie work hours to their productivity but rather physically being somewhere, productivity be damned.
I'm a nurse and I do 3 12 hr days a week. Yea 12 hrs can get pretty rough (especially the graveyard shift) but if you schedule right you can possibly have 7 days off without using vacation time.
i think for the most part companies would rather keep their employees stressed and slightly less productive so even if the corporate world comes to believe this they won't change anything unless they're forced to
Pie in sky fantasy shit. Never going to happen, especially with the current work climate. Sit at home on Friday but still on call via email, just like every other day. Please.
Besides, the 4x8 would only be for certain "upper class" jobs.
Besides, the 4x8 would only be for certain "upper class" jobs.
Oh my god this shit right here. Working "office hours" and trying to fit in doctor visits, bank trips or fucking car maintenance is a damn nightmare since they work almost exactly the same hours you do. Shit sucks cause it's inconvenient as all hell but those workers deserve time off too...would be nice and ultimately ideal to have more people working alternating shifts as opposed to EVERYONE working Mon-Fri 8:00-5:00.
But that would increase head count at a lot of companies and god knows we can't have that *jerk off motion*. That's not even getting into the concept of salaried employees now working 8 hours less but still getting paid the same even though they're likely getting just as much done as a 40 hour week if not more.
Work culture is goddamned toxic and needed to change 40 years ago. Downtime is good, this "gotta hustle 24/7" mentality is insane.
Two things:
1) I don't think they are taking into account that as of now its an extra day, but if its normalized would 4 days become the new 5, and people would think 3 instead of 4 is best?
2) Not all firms have worked based a fixed, steady schedule, and automation is reducing that number all the time.
1) I don't think they are taking into account that as of now its an extra day, but if its normalized would 4 days become the new 5, and people would think 3 instead of 4 is best?
2) Not all firms have worked based a fixed, steady schedule, and automation is reducing that number all the time.
Employee's dick around a lot, and if you have less time to get shit done and more time for a weekend, you get more done in less time.
That said, this would suck for anyone not on salary.
OP
OP
Huh? Seems this would be harder for those jobs.
thats why they studied it long term. It was not a fly by night study.
I need to get a better sense of what they mean by "increased productivity". I have a painting company, and I expect that most of my painters (ON AVERAGE) are going to be able to paint roughly 1600 square feet a day. Which is roughly 8000 square feet per week. I don't get how working one less day per week will cause that 8000 to increase to a higher number, in a lower amount of time. Like a person can physically only do so much in a day. I can't argue with the stress thing at all. I'm sure if I got to work one less day per week my blood pressure would go down considerably, but I can't understand how it would lead to an actual increase in net productivity.
