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France : "yellow vests" protest movement is causing political instability
- Thread starter Herb Alpert
- Start date
Happy?
Edit: she even wrote this op ed piece for WaPo
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...18f6849a004_story.html?utm_term=.6bc2dfe8205c
1) y'all have a really weird definition of "gushing"
2) neat, we now have plural examples. but it's probably not a coincidence that you were given like 40 minutes to think of anyone and all you could find were those reid/tanden tweets, which are coincidentally the first things you see when googling "democratic party macron"
2) neat, we now have plural examples. but it's probably not a coincidence that you were given like 40 minutes to think of anyone and all you could find were those reid/tanden tweets, which are coincidentally the first things you see when googling "democratic party macron"
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That's a pretty odd criticism given the... entire history of the European continent?
Also you don't know what xenophobic means.
Liberals gushing over an electorally successful liberal. What's so surprising about it?
i mean, i'm not surprised that my dude basically just paraphrased a salon article from 7 months ago in which those two were also the only two "prominent democrats!!!" named, that's for sure
I have the distinct feeling Le Pen would only top 40% in the second round if she was facing Macron
Oh, absolutely nothing.
I'm not too familiar with electoral system there, but from experience this whole thing has the potential of moving her up. And we're not even halfway through the mandate.
I've watched the left fucking things up in Brazil and getting Bolsonaro easily elected.
I've seen Democrats and Hillary fucking up their campaign so badly that they got Trump of all things elected, I mean, your country is racist and whatnot, but you guys got Obama elected and the last election could've been won just alright.
Now this.
I love Socialist Europe, I wished I could move to Portugal, but damn Macron is a turd that will give more power to the populists there, if not Le Pen, someone else.
fwiw Le Pen was polling in the mid-high 20s at this point in Hollande's mandate (so even better than she's polling right now), ultimately hit 21% in the first round, and could only muster another 12%
eh. the last hundred-odd years of this country's political history (in which power's generally swung around on a pendulum in 6-8 year cycles to the point that "six-year itch" is actually a US political science term) would actually suggest that it was going to be an uphill battle regardless of candidate
Nice stat, wasn't aware of that. I based my thought by Brazilian politics, when Bolsonaro had moderate chances at best, but he began rising once Lula was out of the run and as the Worker's Party still insisted in promoting him, a convicted criminal (apparently), in the faces of everyone that weren't satisfied with how the party operated these last years due to the numerous scandals, the last crisis and whatnot.
Which is what I see happening with Macron, the exact same thing, leaving room for a side to take advantage of all that anger within the people not satisfied with the current/last administration. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I just figured Obama had done decently enough for the Americans, and that he would the chair for another Dem to take his spot. I still think Hillary wasn't the right candidate to win people over, despite having the majority of votes (that's how it works here), and that her overall campaign just failed throughout the months.
Are you speaking of Jean-Luc « La République c'est moi ! » Mélenchon, or about Jean-Luc « Tout ça, c'est l'Europe ! » Mélenchon?
He's a megalomaniac and his populism is really no better than Le Pen's.
Macron is not a convicted criminal. If anything, it makes more sense to compare him with Obama when looking at the vitriol and hate thrown at him by the extremists. Obama was seen as poison too in the 2010/2012 elections, but did end up getting reelected.
Populism is a buzzword. Macron was a populist too.
And I mean, isn't Jupiterian Macron the definition of a megalomaniac?
Sounds like somebody who has no idea what they're saying would say
Wikipedia has a nice definition:
« Dans son acception générale d'aujourd'hui le mot populisme désigne une approche politique qui oppose le peuple au élites politiques, économiques ou médiatiques. »
If you think about it just a little bit, I'm sure you'll find how I can easily associate JLM to this definition:
- other political parties are thrash
- capitalism is thrash
- media is thrash
But you're right, demagoguery is probably better fitting RN and FI's strategies:
« Le discours du démagogue sort du champ du rationnel pour s'adresser aux pulsions, aux frustrations du peuple, à ses craintes. »
« Dans son acception générale d'aujourd'hui le mot populisme désigne une approche politique qui oppose le peuple au élites politiques, économiques ou médiatiques. »
If you think about it just a little bit, I'm sure you'll find how I can easily associate JLM to this definition:
- other political parties are thrash
- capitalism is thrash
- media is thrash
But you're right, demagoguery is probably better fitting RN and FI's strategies:
« Le discours du démagogue sort du champ du rationnel pour s'adresser aux pulsions, aux frustrations du peuple, à ses craintes. »
At some point in the future, the Le Pen dynasty will be elected, it's just a question of time. Macron just help them to grab few percentages quicker, but i'm not sure it'll be enough to win the secound turn in 2022 (cause we know it'll be a second turn Le Pen against who ever can be second). Maybe for 2027 with Marion Marechal, the heir of the throne.
The Fifth Republic is built for megalomaniac, so most candidates for the presidency are megalomaniac.
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Est-ce que l'on vient de sauter le requin ici?
(Hmm...that expression takes on a whole other meaning in French....)
(Hmm...that expression takes on a whole other meaning in French....)
Criticize JLM/FI substantially please.
Reducing politics to linguistics or ad hominem attacks is a show of ideological weakness. Not a new strategy of status quo supporters but I'd hope we can be more respectful to not only each other but also acknowledge the seriousness of the situation at hand.
Reducing politics to linguistics or ad hominem attacks is a show of ideological weakness. Not a new strategy of status quo supporters but I'd hope we can be more respectful to not only each other but also acknowledge the seriousness of the situation at hand.
French protestors tend to be more hardcore than your usual US protestor, they like burning sheep whilst still alive.
Tanden and Reid are extremely influential and a good barometer of elite Democratic opinion. If they were just randos on Twitter, you might have a point here.
Yeah, I doubt you have any serious knowledge about populism, and no, Macron wasn't one, that absurdity just shows how baseless you can be.
I can't support protestors who cook meat to well done temperatures.
Macron's movement was populist at its core. Like Obama's. Like Trudeau's.
Who cares anyway? Jupiter is falling lol.
It is a nebulous word but Melkr's interpretation is not without merit.
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.go...me-minister-trudeau-canada-and-president-peñaObama said:
JLM is an old political parasite from the french OCI, never worked a day in his life, yet pays the fortune tax.
His whole political carrier is one of nepotism and insulting opponents the old OCI way.
He is not a democrat, his cronies have a Stalin portrait on their desks ffs.
Venezuela is a paradise and chavez a genius, it's all the fault of the US. he says..
Cuba never was a dictatorship. He says..
He was campaigning on a crass anti eu rhetoric where the plan was to impose shit to others members under the threat of Blowing europe out if not.
He is the embodiment of populism.
"we have to stop useless wars in eastern europe and redefine country borders so that everyone* is satisfied"
- JLM, TF1 presidential debate in 2017
* translator note : everyone means vladimir putin
- JLM, TF1 presidential debate in 2017
* translator note : everyone means vladimir putin
Yikes is not an argument.
Obama called himself a populist lmao.
Might we go back to Greek roots or what?
Thanks samoyed.
Would Hamon be a good compromise then?
I get the impression Europeans treat the word "populism" like how we (Americans) treat "socialism". Decades of propaganda and derogatory association has given it a inherently negative connotation.
It should be mentioned that the original populists were agrarian co-ops, trade unions and socialist (before socialism was coined) intelligentsia in America. Generally your common working class socialists buoyed by bourgeoisie sympathists. The term has a neutral-ish connotation in the US where the vestiges of the ideal agrarian yeoman still holds cultural sway. Europe, which has largely abandoned its prairie life fantasies many centuries ago thinks of populists as uneducated rural hicks. In recent times the US seems to have reimported Europe's contemptuous "populism".
It should be mentioned that the original populists were agrarian co-ops, trade unions and socialist (before socialism was coined) intelligentsia in America. Generally your common working class socialists buoyed by bourgeoisie sympathists. The term has a neutral-ish connotation in the US where the vestiges of the ideal agrarian yeoman still holds cultural sway. Europe, which has largely abandoned its prairie life fantasies many centuries ago thinks of populists as uneducated rural hicks. In recent times the US seems to have reimported Europe's contemptuous "populism".
Yikes.
Trump calls himself good and honest, kiddo. I don't know what you're trying to say.
Populism have always been about we the people against the established system, finding an enemy, causing indignation, attacking said enemy that can be the press, a party, a group of people and whatnot. Sometimes all of that and more.
You had Chávez, Lula, Podemos, Syriza and more. Now there's Trump, Bolsonaro, Le Pen, Viktor and more.
Also against several topics, multi-culturalism, immigration, globalism and etc. It's we the people first in a world that wants our country to not come first, but the need of others instead. The usual excuse.
Apparently.
So, yeah. You're terribly wrong. I study this shit here in Brazil, and it's not that complicated.
I mean, populism gave us Napoléon III which led to the defeat against Prussia and the loss of Alsace-Moselle. Populism also started the Boulangism, which was all about getting our revenge on Prussia. Both those things (linked to populism) are part of the reason there even was WWI (well, it's much more complicated than that, but let's say populism did help turn this war into the bloodbath that it was).
see there's making this argument (which is at least internally consistent if not a complete rebuttal of the "elite Democrats didn't gush" point), and then there's Helio basically plagiarizing Salon's May article in which those two were also the only two named and just expecting everyone to go with a point without a thesis, as per frickin' usual
i really shouldn't need to spell out that my issue here's with the latter example of intellectual laziness
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