If only there was something over than non-verbal communication we could use to find out what someone else is comfortable with.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
French actress Catherine Deneuve slams post-Weinstein witch-hunt as attack on sexual freedom
- Thread starter Deleted member 15428
- Start date
She isn't WRONG. There is an ok way to flirt...there is an ok way to see if a kiss is called for...like how everyone's first kiss went...or when you kissed any of your partners for the first time...telling a women you think she is mind blowingly sexy to her face isnt always bad...i do feel like normal to slightly macho male actions are being blurred with the truly bad things. Of course the bad things are BAD REPULSIVE things.
There was a person on fox saying its not permissible for guys in college to call a girl hot. Its more that level of 'witch hunt' that i feel like she is talking about.
There was a person on fox saying its not permissible for guys in college to call a girl hot. Its more that level of 'witch hunt' that i feel like she is talking about.
She/They equates women setting personal and professional boundaries with puritanism.
They aren't bad WITHIN THE RIGHT CONTEXT. You can say your girlfriend is mindblowingly hot. Don't go saying that to a co-worker you aren't dating. First kiss with a romantic interest on a first (or second or third) date isn't wrong, even if it turns out the girl perhaps wasn't that into you, so long as you take the hint (or straight out denial) after the kiss.
And no, that doesn't seem to be the context she is talking about because that context doesn't exist (in any kind of problematic degree). Men can still flirt with women and ask them on dates. No one is beginning any kind of witch hunt because a college student called a girl hot. Like, maybe criticize about objectifying women if they are obsessive about saying that about or to every hot girl they meet, but a single off hand comment about the hotness of a woman? It's not all that big of an issue unless the guy makes it so in some way.
I think you're simplifying her argument. Men need to be able to flirt, and a setting where any expression of male sexuality is frowned upon is the kind of puritanism she is worried about. If a women tells him to stop and he doesn't or she blatantly isn't interested in the first place, that's still obviously a problem.
Claiming someone is guilty with just accusations (for any crime) is problematic. That's something worth discussing. But it shouldn't be okay for men to 'steal a kiss'.
Flirting and hitting on women/men should be okay as long as it's done moderately.
Flirting and hitting on women/men should be okay as long as it's done moderately.
But that kind of thing is nowhere near becoming a reality. Men can express their sexuality with women they are involved with. All women want is that men don't whip out their dicks at the workplace when alone with a woman and that sexual commentary and unwanted touching is not practiced with colleagues or generally with women who aren't your SO.
Aggressive flirting and making unwanted sexual advances isn't some inherent biological aspect of men that just NEEDS to be practiced or else men will wither away. If you are horny, look for sex online or go to a bar, don't go stealing kisses from random women.
This reads like she is trying to establish particular sexual preferences and desires as an acceptable norm in professional interactions. Shifting the blame of unwanted attentions onto those that are receiving them while exonerating those committing the actions as victims of sexual repression.
Is the full translation of the letter available anywhere? I don't speak French and I don't trust Google Translate.
Pay attention to body language? Build up to the contact? Don't just go for a kiss
Fuck the feminism is ruining Men's lives scare mongering. It's so incredibly toxic. If you're in a position of power, don't abuse your power to persue a sexual relationship. Read ques/faces/gestures, if you fuck up, apologize. It's not that hard, and if you're really not sure ask. Consent needs to be taught in schools, because that French lady and a couple of posters are having a hard time grasping that concept. The people that are finding themselves in trouble are the types of people that go from "hi" to touching knees and sending dick pics in a matter of minutes. Not people that use terrible one liners
Yeah. The idea that what Harvey and Franken did is somehow not linked to guys invading the personal space of women (or in some cases, even initiating physical contact) fucking astonishes me.
I asked the mods for a title change hours ago and still nothing. People are still saying "she". Come on.
I'm starting to think maybe we should include teaching boundaries in public education or something. I don't know, it just seems people are so clueless as how to treat women when it seems like it should just be common sense.
That thing you think might be great for picking up random women or getting your friend or coworker to get with you? Imagine someone unattractive or another guy (if you're straight) doing that to you and think how you might react.
There's nothing Puritan about it. You can love sex and hooking up without wanting random people trying to caress you or make unsolicited sexual comments.
Also she supported Polanski, which makes her pretty much filth in my book. She seems to be railing to protect a sort of culture that she grew up in—one that many of us feel it's healthier to change, and that will be more egalitarian moving forward.
That thing you think might be great for picking up random women or getting your friend or coworker to get with you? Imagine someone unattractive or another guy (if you're straight) doing that to you and think how you might react.
There's nothing Puritan about it. You can love sex and hooking up without wanting random people trying to caress you or make unsolicited sexual comments.
Also she supported Polanski, which makes her pretty much filth in my book. She seems to be railing to protect a sort of culture that she grew up in—one that many of us feel it's healthier to change, and that will be more egalitarian moving forward.
Last edited:
Masturbating into a potted plant is a very common flirting technique in France. Travel more guys!!!
It's why finding a gardener to maintain your plants is so difficult.
And why they ALWAYS wear gloves.
Asking for men to not rape and whip out their dick at the presence of women is puritanical? That sure is a revelation. Thank you for blessing us with your incredibly well thought post on the subject. The world sure is a better place now that you've made us see the light. Women just want dicks forcibly inserted in them.
Just to be clear, Catherine Deneuve didn't write it herself, she just signed it with other women.
How incredibly disconnected do you have to be to write this shite - i don't see a point to commenting on this when shes an outlier against the millions of women who campaigned for better treatment. And this tidbit
Say no more...for everybodys sake.
Say no more...for everybodys sake.
good for them. Glad they're not seeing this issue as black and white as there's nuance and they're very entitled to their opinion. It's very difficult for lots of men and women to navigate dating and courtship. There are lots of instances of clumsy unwanted advances and flirtation. I think it's obvious that anybody ever in a position of power over another should never even attempt it.
But then how can you say good for them when this is them calling those who are taking a stand, against people in power being sexually abusive, puritanical.
This thread is reallllllllllllllllll interesting given how many people on this site have used the term "puritanical" when talking about sex in video games.
Last edited:
I interpreted it as her calling the most extreme examples we've seen as puritanical and the movement going too far, i.e. Sandler's knee touching being met with outrage.
How stupid and evil do you have to be to write and/or sign that thing? Equating sexual harassment and assault as an awkward attempt to flirt is beyond insulting. Basically, "boys will be boys. It's not puritanical to have self-respect and personal boundaries.
So i get warned for that post because "unwanted sexual advances are sexual assault".
Well, forgive me then if i have a different opinion and came to post about it into a thread where multiple celebrities have the same different opinion.
Next time i'll pm a mod before posting to know the general consensus on the matter so i can post according to it, instead of wasting my time explaining my actual opinion.
Unwanted touches are a big issue. Overly touchy men are an issue. People saw that moment as a representation of such behaviour, considering how uncomfortable she looked at that moment, having to actually lift Sandler's hand off her leg. Men should keep their hands to themselves unless it's a person they are close with they know won't mind getting that kind of physical contact from you.
I've read it, and it doesn't have much to say. The letter talks as if something of value was lost in the process of empowering women - but this letter has nothing to show for it. What are these sexual freedoms that are no longer available? The freedom to throw flirtatious compliments at each other? Or to touch your coworkers in a slightly sexual manner? Sexual freedom in the workplace is laughable, and these signees have better ways to spend their time than empowering other peoples agendas.
The letter is vapid. It's a slightly more coherent Trump rant. Even in France it's being ridiculed.
Lol at making yourself the victim. Learn from your mistakes instead of being butthurt when people criticize your shitty hot take that supports sexual assault.
I've never heard of anyone directly asking a girl if they can hug/kiss her or if she likes him....well not after elementary school.
What else were you suggesting?
How many of these initial romantic interactions have you actually been a part of as an outsider? Because "Hey, I really enjoy my time with you, wanna go on a date?" isn't some outlandish thing to say to a woman.
And of course if things progress to a romantic level there's not necessarily a need to get a verbal confirmation if the body language and other visual ques make it clear both are agreeing to the situation.
This isn't about normal dating stuff, this is about the contexts where touching and sexual commentary are inappropriate. You don't just go around "stealing kisses", rubbing the inner thighs of co-workers and making comments like "I wanna fuck you all day long" with the excuse of "it's just flirting". That's sexual harassment.
Also, yes, people need to communicate with words more. A lot of unfortunate situations could have been prevented with more open communication. Asking permission to do something isn't nearly as juvenile as you make it seem. If anything your attitude is far more childish.
Last edited:
Yeah, French culture isn't that different. I had a quick look at reactions on a French forum and I found the same sorts of arguments people are having in this topic.
Sexual freedom in general is not a laughable matter for sure. and this letter is not about the working place only ( that anyway is not a as much an asexual place in france a as it is in the US). and this part :
"In fact, #metoo has led in the press and on social networks a campaign of public denunciations and impeachment of individuals who, without being given the opportunity to respond or defend themselves, were put exactly on the same level as sexual assailants"
Had stories in France at least with people in the mud publicly for things that were not "correct" but should not destroy a person's life.
it's not . It could be interesting to see where it's being ridiculed. Discussed for sure, and it's a good thing. ridiculed i don't think so.
Which resulted in fucking nothing.
So maybe we don't need giant letters worrying about MeToo going Puritanical when it's not actually happening.
Yeah, that letter was taken down pretty hard by Caroline Haas and a group of feminists:
https://mobile.francetvinfo.fr/societe/droits-des-femmes/tribune-les-porcs-et-leurs-allie-e-s-ont-raison-de-sinquieter-caroline-de-haas-et-des-militantes-feministes-repondent-a-la-tribune-publiee-dans-le-monde_2553497.html
("Repeat offenders of defending pedocriminals and apologizing for rape")
Last edited:
No, it's getting ridiculed. This letter was also co-signed by anti-feminists, including a women who compared feminism with Stalinism. This is the level of intellect at play here. And regarding your quote, what opportunity were the accused prevented from having to defend themselves? Hint: nothing. That quote, much like the rest of the letter, is up its own ass.
I agree 100%, but why are you telling that to me? I never mentioned or implied the above things.
How many lives have been ruined by false claims? Social media lynching is an issue, but lets not create a fake narrative of masses of men being falsely accused or some shit like that. The last case study I read on the EU was citing false sexual claims at somewhere between %2-6.
I'm friends with quite a few French journalists - and none of them have anything positive to say about this letter. It's ultimately anti-feminist at its core. And yes, surprise, there are women anti-feminists.
It would be useful if they cited examples here. I agree that there has been a rather hysterical reaction in the media, which is to be expected. Self righteousness on just about any more issue that gains traction is a hall mark. However, I think this is a huge issue, and there is bound to be some tragic and wrongfull fall out in the grand scheme of things. However, I think that evidence suggests that rabid male chauvinism is a bigger threat to the current social psyche, than the idea that this general expose will lead to empowerment of a rabid form of feminism.
I feel that most sensible men shouldn't feel threatened by this process. I certainly don't, nor many of the friends I have spoken to.