Lol the yellow vests aren't alt right. They are low / middle class workers being ignored by your government
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French protesters want to set off bank run with withdrawals
- Thread starter ReactionShot
- Start date
No! No they didn't! They've been the force behind repeated government shutdowns, have been primarying out guys like Cantor and Strange in favor of assholes like Moore, and their reactionary racist response to a black President is not something that anyone should be looked up to.
"Don't step on snek?" No, step on the damn snake so it can't bite anyone anymore.
Deliberately trying to destroy the economy is not what I'd call the brightest idea, no. The poor will be hurt the worst, while the wealthy travel safely to other countries with their limousines and yachts and mansions until the heat dies off while right wing candidates, like Le Pen, take advantage of the chaos to become the new rulers of the New France.
Meanwhile Putin is all
Another pillar of the EU taken out from within, with his own puppet leading the country.
Then I'm misinformed. I thought they were only angry over economic reasons. I support their want for change but I didn't realize that they wanted to replace Macron with a Donald Trump-like figure. I'm not sure how they think that could work if they been watching anything that's been going on over here. I only said I support them because they are actually going about and trying to create the change they want to see. I wish we did that here and got our dumbass president out of office.
This is what I was getting at. I wish BLM had that success. I wish any progressive movement would find success right now because God knows we need it in this country.
Being low / middle class doesn't change the fact that a majority of them are racists.
Note the word majority. I feel bad for the genuine good people in the movement that struggle with their income, but the movement has been taken over from day 1 by alt-right assholes.
Nice, there's a lot of shit disturbers in the riots. Guess we can define BLM and other protests by such low standards. It's kust alt right shit heads funded by the Russians. Nothing else to it folks
User Banned (1 day): Antagonizing other members
Yes Stinkles. Tell the middle class French that they have no grievances and are Russian shills while you rake in 6 figure salaryLol. Leftist my ass
True, I just don't know how you obtain change without some sort of consequence. I'm viewing everything from an American perspective and I just wish we had some sort of movement here that could have the president in fear like the yellow vest protestors have done with Macron. We are finally starting to see people protest over the government shutdown and I wish that would continue until we obtain real change and get that dipshit in office to hear from the American people. However, what's more likely to happen is that Trump reopens the government,
They're not funded by the Russians. (well, they might be, but this would exist with or without them, much like the Tea Party shit would've existed with or without Koch astroturfing)
Le Pen got 35% of the vote. Who do you think many of the protestors will be?
I was being sarcastic, of course the alt right will show up to fight against a left wing government. But generalizing that the yellow vest movement is an alt right movement is a joke.
With UK soon gone, France is the only nuclear-weapon state in the EU, the only permanent member in the UN security council in the EU, and the EU second biggest economy. France is the main diplomatic power in the European Union, whereas Germany is the main economic power. Without those two there is no EU as we known it (already greatly weakened by brexit).
I don't blame you if you're looking at it from the outside. The closest analogue you have in the US is the "economic anxiety" justification to vote for Trump. Maybe there are some people among them who are on board because of that rhetoric, but it's mostly coded language for right-wing buffoons. In France specifically though, there's just a worrying amount of anti-Semitism thrown in the mix too.
"Quenelle" is a stupid thing more or less invented par french comedian and activist Dieudonné, for anyone that wants to know.
Basically, anyone doing it embraces Nazi ideology.
What's sad is that a lot of kids are doing it because they think it's funny and edgy, without knowing what it actually implies.
So populists.
I was turned off immediately when I read that they demanded direct democracy and weakening of parliament.
It's the "shitting myself on purpose" movement.
Here's French polling data- https://elabe.fr/wp-content/uploads...es-mesures-annoncees-par-edouard-philippe.pdf
Going by first-round votes in the 2017 election, the voter group with the most favorable opinion of the Yellow Vests is Le Pen supporters. The next? Melenchon, And after that? Sit-outs. This is not a good combo. And as this article points out, the reason the fuel tax caused this sort of reaction is because rural areas are more heavily reliant on gas. (there's that rural vs urban divide again, similar to the Tea Party.)
Going by first-round votes in the 2017 election, the voter group with the most favorable opinion of the Yellow Vests is Le Pen supporters. The next? Melenchon, And after that? Sit-outs. This is not a good combo. And as this article points out, the reason the fuel tax caused this sort of reaction is because rural areas are more heavily reliant on gas. (there's that rural vs urban divide again, similar to the Tea Party.)
FWIW, there's no great Russian conspiracy involving money at play here, in the sense that all Russia has to do is use its usual and visible soft power in the form of RT and Sputnik. They just have to concern troll western democracies, and repeatedly point out and amplify their very real failings to erode our societies. There's a strong (sometimes violent) anti-media feeling among YV that RT has been exploiting, to the point RT has been cheered by "the movement".
(Using quotation marks here because as a decentralized movement, you won't find something 100% of them agree on)
Of course, the usual bad faith actors, some of them Russian backed, are supporting the movement, but as much as they're trying to fit in the picture, they're mostly cheering from the sidelines.
(Using quotation marks here because as a decentralized movement, you won't find something 100% of them agree on)
Of course, the usual bad faith actors, some of them Russian backed, are supporting the movement, but as much as they're trying to fit in the picture, they're mostly cheering from the sidelines.
Major change generally ends up getting worse results, that's why working within the system with incrementalism is the better choice. Not because it's great, it's so we don't lose everything and can be reformed properly. Movements like the riots do have a history of making change, but the type of change you and they want won't be done by riots it'd be a coup de tat. Macron vacating may be a good result, but then the next popular candidate in line with elections is Le Pen. Which I don't see as an improvement. Internationally Macron was seen as a compromise candidate by American liberals and centrists since he was the best among the France candidates by default, not because he was "good."
Presidents being in fear of their citizens isn't good enough, neither is getting a new emperor/empress from whoever comes out of the Yellow Vests. Which aren't a left wing movement. It's a movement with various political groups on the left and the right intertwined, and filled with political extremists.
Agreed, Palette Swap.
Wow at some of the replies here.
It's like they don't know anything about France other than a quick Google search.
Protesting is the French national sport and I mean that with no malice. This is a particularly strong set of protests but this isn't anything new and isn't some sort of grand Russian conspiracy.
LePen trying to co-opt the protests is an expected move but this at its core is the French people getting pissed off because they feel that they've tried everything (Republican, Socialist and now Macron) and they get the same old.
It's not even the worst protests in my memory and 2005 springs to mind. This has just burned on longer.
Anyway, mainstream media have not really picked this up for a reason. It'll take millions of people to conduct a coordinated bank run on an otherwise stable bank. You can't just pull a Northern Rock like they think you can.
It's like they don't know anything about France other than a quick Google search.
Protesting is the French national sport and I mean that with no malice. This is a particularly strong set of protests but this isn't anything new and isn't some sort of grand Russian conspiracy.
LePen trying to co-opt the protests is an expected move but this at its core is the French people getting pissed off because they feel that they've tried everything (Republican, Socialist and now Macron) and they get the same old.
It's not even the worst protests in my memory and 2005 springs to mind. This has just burned on longer.
Anyway, mainstream media have not really picked this up for a reason. It'll take millions of people to conduct a coordinated bank run on an otherwise stable bank. You can't just pull a Northern Rock like they think you can.
Being honest? Russia probably have their finger in anything that causes unrest in Europe.
However they're not anything other than minor players at best. This rose locally and any influence from external sources is adding fuel to the flames rather than instigation.
I mean, sometimes all you need is a spark to cause a fire that burns half a country
How do you fund something with no central organisation, no leaders, no HQ? Who is being given money?
This Russian mastermind thing is a really shit meme
you pay the vocal people to start shit
maybe some facebook groups
Seems so. It's like the red scare bullshit from the cold war all over again. I can see liberals labelling every single radical movement in the future that may even slightly challenge their own economic interests as being as being "funded by Russia" in the same way conservatives attribute the same movements to being "funded by Soros".
Its all the same bullshit all over again and history repeats itself. Nothing new.
There are not enough Yellow Vests for this to work, far from it.
Also, they are protesting because they lack purchasing power: there is probably not much money to withdraw from the banks.
But they don't know who the vocal people are until they're, you know, vocal. This wasn't started by a leadership or anything other than a congregation of angry people. If anything people trying to "speak for the group" were usually ousted.
This was started locally. This is not Russia doing a job on France.
It's not a singularly left or right thing.
It's a group of people from all political positions who hate Macron coming together to protest. It's not the way to do things when it comes to violence like it has but it's no Russian, or right wing conspiracy.
There's right wing, and nationalism in here too, but it's not a LePen organised thing, nor is it solely a protest of the left either.
I think there's some miscommunication here. Not all of us think they're being funded by Russia, only that they're being vulnerable to doing Russia's work for them by making France vulnerable politically and economically which helps nobody. Weakening France would be a huge win for them.
What is frustrating is how those on the left ignore what's going on from our enemies aboard because they assume Russia is our friend after the Cold War ended. This ignores various activities Russia's done over the years which has had severe severe consequences we're feeling.
History really does repeat itself. The Soviet Union did fund various left wing groups in America for their own agenda during the Cold War while Putin did the same for various left wing groups during '16 to destabilise the US. Despite being a right winger, Putin does want to relive his glory days where Russia was on top.
It is the same bullshit, but it wasn't a fantasy then and it's not a fantasy now.
Macron is the definition of classical liberal. Which I guess is actually sort of centrist? Still don't know how I feel about him (but his pigheadedness is a big no-no).
They're under every rock and behind every tree!
But them sowing discord online is old as time
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Those are American horse race enthusiasts.
In Europe itself support is there because we actually acknowledge the reality of the theft being done by big corporations. Well...unless you ask center right voters that are already ranking in double the median income a month and don't care if you starve.
Well I did not say it was all that. I said a part. I might back down on the majority too, as that seems unproven too.
But why not support the left wing parts of it? Though I do acknowledge that resetera in large extents are very liberal, but not nessecarily socialist as such (socialist as believing in a expropriation of the means of production-socialist), so I do get why people find the violence unapealling. That's an entirely other debate though.
you're right
just like france, america was never influenced by russia in the past few years
The far right and far left are doing all they can to stir shit up with this movement. It's a big fucking mess. The french far right is bankrolled by russia.
Because people who actually live in France and have been dealing with this for 2 months now, can tell you that despite the façade of the 'working man versus the establishment' image that people from outside the country seem to have, this movement is morphing into something more and more extreme.
Before we just kind of laughed at them because they wanted impossible demands (more public spending, higher wages, but less taxes!), but now they seem hell bent on destruction for destruction's sake. What will satisfy them? Macon's head on a stake? Then what? Is that going to solve all their problems?
It's an angry mob and nothing Macron does will make them happy. He's not perfect, but he's not the boogey man that these protesters seem to paint him in very broad, childish strokes.
Because of the proven Russian astroturfing in the yellow vest movement.
Not agreeing with you does not mean liberals or centrists don't care about those things, they are simply skeptical they'll get the results you want.
I hate Macron tbh, he's just the personification of modernism-era (lofty ideas) arrogance mixed with neo-liberal practices completely undermining worker class rights.
I do acknowledge that the problems are way more complicated than just chopping his head off, but he has a part in this.
Also with regards to violence - I believe it is very much an ... oversight, not to have the violence of the state (police) as a factor in viewing this conflict. Why are the violence of states so fully legitimized always in the eyes of liberals. We need to do a marx OT in this mf'er.
Well seeing as how we actually have economic theory to back our point up and how centrists don't...eh. If you care about poverty then you are expected to come with plans to tackle poverty. Except that you are incapable to do that because centrism fused with the lowered might of nation states against multinationals means every decision ends up benefiting the big boys.
Russia's meddling has been proven in the US elections, in Brexit, in most far-right EU parties for years. Melanchon, on the far left, is a fan of Poutine, just like Le Pen.
At that point, you'd have to be naïve to believe that Poutine wouldn't see in the YV movement an opportunity to sow dissent, or that he would ignore it.
At that point, you'd have to be naïve to believe that Poutine wouldn't see in the YV movement an opportunity to sow dissent, or that he would ignore it.