This rapper sounds like a racist asshole but I would never wish anyone get criminally charged over song lyrics.
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French rapper investigated for call to 'hang white people'
- Thread starter Deleted member 15428
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Isn't the video kind of relevant to the discussion? Not sure why you'd grill someone for posting it
Damn, the lyrics are fucking garbage but where is the outrage of white people about us PoC having shit songs made about us??? I mean look at the comments too...
It's an intentional reversal of racist tropes, done to start a dialogue (and more importantly gain attention). Who gives a shit. Bigger story seems to be that European rap continues to be trash.
Glad I live in a country with free speech and the best rappers. USA USA USA.
Glad I live in a country with free speech and the best rappers. USA USA USA.
Yeah that was pretty fucking disgusting, especially as it was aimed to a person sharing their personal experiences.
Wouldn't fly in France I assume. You have to take this up with your president..... oh right.
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How did I downplay anything, honestly?
You're in this irrational outrage mode and it's ridiculous over this stupid small reaching video.
Do you think the discrimination, prejudices and violence white Eastern Europeans in example face is just as condemnable as when it's directed towards POC. I'm not asking which do you think is more common, I'm asking if you see it as equally bad act?
Ah, good to hear. Just a note but I'm not really trying (nor am I in the mood lol) to argue on the wider societal context of this but merely on this specific case alone.
I know offensive artistic content can exist and I know it can be literal, you're assuming a lot of things if you assume I actually think otherwise. I also know that offensive content, especially that which is direct specifically towards a particular ethnic group, can have a damaging effect on society. The French clearly know this as well which is why they're focusing on that in regards to this issue instead of the actual intent behind Conrad's lyrics/video.
Why can't France simply turn a blind eye? I'm not at liberty to say since I'm not French, but they clearly wish to take a hard-line stance regarding any material that can be seen as hate speech or an incitement of violence towards any particular ethnic group. I don't particularly believe that Conrad's video would have been that harmful in the grand scheme of thingshad it been left to relative obscurity (though the rhetoric itself is still disgusting in context) but I do believe that legal and societal precedent is a powerful thing. If France were to set the precedent that speech similar to Conrad's is acceptable due to it being "fictional" then it would undermine their hate speech laws and allow much more harmful forces to propagate under this newfound loophole. Of course the video was found and amplified due to alt-right ulterior motives, I'm not stupid, but this particular cat can not be back into the bag. The French government, therefore, has a choice between undermining their hate speech laws or, as you said, simply giving the guy some sort of charge to make a point.
Youtube's a hypocritcal shithole but this particular case was likely due to them not wanting to piss off the French government by hosting French content that had been deemed to be hate speech.
No, the problem is not the video, the problem is you saying that people genocided by Hitler of all things, weren't victims of racism and coming up with stuff such as "ethnic genocide, not racism" to downplay it.
So minorities need to stop so, what, they get to be targets with zero recourse? That turn the other cheek stuff doesn't work when people don't even recognize you as deserving of basic rights and decency. The second minorities adopt the attitude that we should all just hug it out is the second things turn real bad. It's not a circle because that implies everyone is giving and getting hatred equally.
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Sure
Yeah I created the term ethnic genocide. Come on
I'm sorry but I can't know if you are being sarcastic or something. "Yes, of course" would had been more convincing. Now it seemed like "sure whatever". But okay, why is it so important then that it's not called racism. Why is the disctintion so important when they are equally bad things, perpetuated in same manner. It feels weird to me since where I live the definition of racism also encompasses ethnicity, culture and religion, not just race. Do you also make a distinction between Islamophobia and racism?
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Those two must not be paying attention, I know of one poster who has been banned at least twice for what they claim no one has ever been banned for.
Clearly dark satire, and also an example of why I tend to fall into the free speech absolutist camp. Give any entity authority to silence speech, even hate speech, and no matter how well meaning they claim to be, they'll find a way to abuse it. Allow hate speech, and leave it up to the people to take action against it using their own free speech/expression, whether it be in the form of deplatforming, protest, or debate. Just don't hand that power over to a fucking institution.
Yeah race based and religious based discrimination are different things that can intersect. If a minority hates a oppressive group because they're treated as second class; that a different situation than two different ethnicities of the same "race" going at it.
Just pretending everything is equally "racist" isn't right.
So minorities need to stop so, what, they get to be targets with zero recourse? That turn the other cheek stuff doesn't work when people don't even recognize you as deserving of basic rights and decency. The second minorities adopt the attitude that we should all just hug it out is the second things turn real bad. It's not a circle because that implies everyone is giving and getting hatred equally.
Sorry dude I respect every men and women on this planet and I don't care about your stories about thousand years of violence or intolerance.
I m a grandson of an Algerian man and a French woman by the time of the colonies.
They are the greatest heroes, those that achieved To put hopes and love before all this hate.
I'm sorry but I wont shed a tear to those that fight hatred with hatred.
I mean, I'm white so I don't have those stories, but yikes. I hope you start caring about that.
Yep, well said.
I mean in my experience racism towards racial groups (people with darker skin color) is more common in this day and age. In that way I'd say it's not equal, that's what we probably agree on. But how it's perpetrated is equal. And I'm not talking about "racism" towards the majority, I'm talking about racism towards ethnic minorities who can be mostly white. Someone getting beat up for being Polish or Russian minority is just as bad as someone getting beaten for being black or brown skinned. Both are things completely out of their control too, nobody chooses where they are born or with what skin color. Or getting discriminated in employment. Or having stereotypes perpetuated. Do we agree on this?
Is UNESCO recognized as the holders of the only legitimate definition of racism or something? I can't find that on their site where they say "all other definitions are wrong and ours is right". Also, what part of you finds a problem with how Elegant Weapon defines racism (I'll tag him because you did not)? I don't understand where that reaction is coming from inside of you. it's fine to disagree but when you make a comment like that it seems like it has some teeth behind it, like it bothers you more than just a friendly disagreement.
Just striked me as odd you replied to the poster after me, that's all. Good luck on your test.
Nice! I just often get a bad impression on some threads, when people say that there can be no racism towards white people. It reads as a downplaying the problem of racism. I'd have less issues with it if people said their mind while acknowledging those who suffer from racism or xenophobia (however you want to call it) while being white too. As it's not a shield against discrimination or prejudices. It still happens even on institutional level and still hurts.
Again I'm talking about minorities. Not for myself, as I'm not a minority and definitely not a victim of racism. Also I'm usually talking about white people who are perpetuating it.
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I'm heading to part two now but you shouldn't fret too much over my opinions as much as white on white racism in Eastern Europe which I'm spared from experiencing as an American.
Why not?
Every single time some entitled middle-aged white woman calls the cops on a black person at a BBQ or at a park, it gets a thread here and weeks worth of news.
This guy is calling for racial violence. Why does his popularity dictate how newsworthy it should or shouldn't be?
I'd say that calling cops on a black person in the US is putting them at risk. The risk of something happening to them is greater than something happening to white people in France because of this song. But I don't mind this thread either though.
On one hand you described state assisted racial conflict. On the other, you got one dude saying stupid shit. Nothing about that denotes an important difference to you?
That I'm not fretting over, I still wonder whether you think Nazis are racist or tribalistic though lol. Because if you say I can't have experienced racism since I'm not black and it was tribalism instead (again, no distinction is made there in my country), and we know the Nazis never particulary went for black people, that would mean Nazis were tribalistic as well?
Which makes us calling racists Nazis nonsensical? Yet everybody does it. I think we do for good reason, you seem to disagree.
Good luck on part two then as well!
I mean the dude lives and was most likely born in France or seems to have ancestry in Cameroon, not in America, so I'm not sure what he's reversing here. The way the picture plays with him abducting the guy, toying with him while he dies, that shit is imagery that doesn't even happen in America anymore. Certainly not in France, where the hatespeech laws are in place. And the killing babies part, as you said as well, was just too over the top.
I'm not surprised the shock was wanted lol.
I'm also not sure what it is treated differently to. Opposed to what? What rap video have you seen where this imagery is even remotely being displayed in reverse, or even one that was treated with lighter hands and reactions than this one? Again, the organization that sued him normally sues far right wingers for hatespeech or the government and companies for discrimination policies/discriminiation at the workplace.
The fact that right wing nuts are attacking him on the internet should surprise absolutely noone, but people in here arguing against him are mostly arguing against people downplaying his statements.
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He should have let the white guy rap so that we could get #bothsides. Joyner Lucas also should have showed up and just cried at the end.
I don't think I've said anything about black people in this thread; at least I definitely didn't say only black people experience racism
Then why did you tell me it's not racism when I just said I have white skin colour and people gave me hell for years do to my heritage anyway? Since that line of thinking that racism is something that only PoC can experience is quite prevalent on this board I interpreted your one sentence post like that.
Strange they didn't absue it for 70+ years and in some instances longer then. There is no scenario in which hatespeech laws can be abused in a way that theatens minorities or politically opressed. They are too clearly defined for that.
Allowing hatespeech leads to something like America right now. The far right is on the rise in Europe as well, but it's not as bad and I firmly believe it's also becuse of those laws. Deplatforming works.
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Black people aren't the only people who face racism for their skin color and I never implied otherwise. I did say there is differences in context of why people are discriminated.
Still pulled his shit down faster than they did Jones/spencer/every other Person with the same viewpoints on youtube/twitter/Facebook...
Sometimes not even so.
So true! Glad someone pointed this out.
Makes you think doesn't it?
I strongly advise you to not talk about things you don't know anything about. This entire thread just makes you look like such a ridiculously poor person, it's not even funny anymore.
oh I'm not angry but I do have a personal stake in what his definition doesn't consider as racism as it pertains to my own family. like one person's experiences with racism shouldn't have to diminish other peoples' to the extent that you try to rewrite definitions.
"that not racism" is just rude and uncalled for
It doesn't really. Jones and Spencer and most other straight up racist/white supremacy youtube/social media guys are american and america doesn't have hate speech laws. This guy was french and France has hate speech laws, so if youtube didn't react in certain time amount France would have fined them for a lot of money.
It sucks youtube and other social media platforms are so slow to react in many cases like Jones' but you're looking for a conspiracy where there is none and there is a clear explanation for why they reacted as fast as they did.
Exactly : two different countries, two different laws so the comparison between Jones and Conrad can't work
You can make a change without to have to repent for things you didn't do. For what I know I'm shocked, stunned by the atrocity that our elders have committed.
But I'm equally shocked by some rhetoric I'm reading here.
Basically, it's "an eye for an eye" but if you do that, then you're doing or saying harmful things to people that have not the choice either to have the skin coulour of ancestral douchebags.
I'm white, I didn't choose to, so I have to be associated to racists, supremacists because they represent a majority ?
So there's a form of hostility that is accepted because you have to even the odds and the other will have to wait ? We can't fight every form of intolerance under the same banner ? Why ?
It is a story about hope and love, I'm sure it's far more needed that some of the messages of pure and sometimes non dissimilated hatred that I've came across on this topic may it be toward black or white people.
You don't think that we could do way better with each others if we started to talk about what we have in common instead of what our (basics as skin colour) differences are ?
Come on guys...
indefensible lyrics saying that in any modern society will get you investigated regardless of race , hope the fool learns his lesson on being racist
All your posts here are Gold Medal winning Mental Gymnastics, you are too good.
How exactly can you claim to care about and respect others, when you won't listen to their struggles? Instead, you felt like gushing about your "heroes"
Enlighten me then.Tell me how I was wrong.I was most likely right since he/she avoided to answer my question and also changed his/her antifa profile pic.
Aye and some folks in here could win a Gold Medal in... acting.
Here's a song for you all
Oh wait, it was called out in a top 10 list - http://loudwire.com/top-10-songs-about-killing/
But Audioboxer, we don't know who Type O Negative is, maybe once they get signal boosted then we'll have some conversations about "ethics in song lyrics".
Or Audioboxer, that's a punk band just being edgy and while I don't like it, I can tuck myself in at night and not be offended. Yeah imagine that, the white dudes get a bit explicit in their music lyrics and no one is going to care
But a black guy gets a little bit rowdy/maybe goes over the top a little in attempting a political message via... music lyrics, and we best make it an international media circus and investigate him because those black guys trying to push boundaries probably actually eat children.
So yeah, the more I think about this topic, the more I probably need a visit to the toxic masculinity topic when I now say some of you need to man the fuck up and stop pretending that you don't let a million other edgy artists or commentators pass... as long as they are white or not a perceived threat. Funny how that works!
Or maybe I just grew up with a backbone and knew when something wasn't literal or it could be explained, even if the eventual outcome was it wasn't pulled off all that well, I didn't curl up or need to take some bath salts over... song lyrics.
If you want to post some literal Nazis in song and dance about killing, or some other supremacists singing about killing and meaning it/endorsing it, I'll change my tune. But then that's not as much to do with them signing, as it is to do with me knowing they are being literal/are literally violent or hateful people. You know, arguably the more important thing, what's the person's intentions/what are they like as a person.
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