I used to hate the area during my first playthrough, but I just again went through it and kinda liked it.
Fuck the slow "fat" rolls and the tree guys though.
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From Software Development & Speculation - Everything we know about their current projects
- Thread starter Mifec
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Fuck the slow "fat" rolls and the tree guys though.
if you jump into DS2 unbiased,you'll enjoy it way more than you think. If you jump in with the mood "lets see how bad DS2 is", then you aren't starting on a right track
I say go to Drangleic,DeS is great,but it's a bit rough since it was the first. You'll appreciate DS2 more imo
I bring grave news,but Elden Ring was revealed almost a year ago
Well, it was revealed so long ago that they can do a re-reveal.
I think the same goes for the next BOTW. So many surprises coming. When is anyone's guess.
No arguing from me. Announcing things so far out is stupid IMO.
I hope I like BOTW2 more than BOTW. Seeing the "new" world/art direction is really the only reason I'm interested in seeing more of it, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
Every time this thread is bumped and I come in all thirsty...
WOMP WOMP...WOOOOOOOMP
I hope From takes the time to really come up with some new ideas for Elden Ring. Dark Souls is probably my #1 game of all time and even I'm pretty burnt out and don't want to see more recycled Souls elements. Even Sekiro had the typical poison, dungeon, crazy village areas at some point despite being relatively fresh otherwise.
Also not sure if there's been word on difficulty but I also hope they reevaluate their approach in that department a bit. I felt like between DSIII and Sekiro things were becoming a bit meme-ish.
WOMP WOMP...WOOOOOOOMP
I hope From takes the time to really come up with some new ideas for Elden Ring. Dark Souls is probably my #1 game of all time and even I'm pretty burnt out and don't want to see more recycled Souls elements. Even Sekiro had the typical poison, dungeon, crazy village areas at some point despite being relatively fresh otherwise.
Also not sure if there's been word on difficulty but I also hope they reevaluate their approach in that department a bit. I felt like between DSIII and Sekiro things were becoming a bit meme-ish.
Nope. Tomorrow was always more likely than today, since the surprise title is supposed to be previously unannounced.
Tomorrow is unlikely too, but less so IMO.
People might dunk on you for this but I can see where you're coming from and I've talked with a few people about this who have expressed similar feelings. It's something that would get balanced through playtesting and feedback but I do sympathize with people who feel that the most recent games have become a bit too punishing in certain cases.
It's a bit of a difficult issue to address because ideally you want to make something that is both challenging for long time players as well as being reasonably accessible to new players and finding that balance in the middle is tough. Long time players who have stuck with these games for years either casually or through more dedicated play are eventually going to grow accustomed to From's usual bag of tricks, and when gameplay mechanics wise, Dark Souls 3 isn't really a massive departure from Dark Souls 1 they need to start adding new tricks to that bag to keep things interesting for long term players which results in them adding stuff like delayed attacks to bosses, having them move more, introducing multi-phase fights, increased enemy speed and aggression, among other things to trip up the player and keep them on their toes.
But when these things are combined with ballooning health pools it can stop being enjoyable and end up being less a test of skill and more a test of endurance, which is a fair and fine test of ability in its own right but can also end up making things a lot less fun for a number of players, I imagine even moreso if you're just jumping in for the first time. I can say that there are some infamous fights in DS3 and Sekiro that I don't personally enjoy for that reason.
It's worth noting that as fans, your guys' voice and opinions do matter to From and they are willing to make adjustments, especially regarding difficulty when fans feel like they've missed the mark and that it's worth your time to (respectfully) voice those opinions and outline where the issue you have is and why so that they are able to make those adjustments when needed because they do care. You don't even need to take my word for it as I'm sure anyone who played The Ringed City on release remembers just how punishing the angles were, this upset a lot of players and they were nerfed not too long after. I never really found them to be much of an issue myself, but I also play characters with very large health and stamina pools, so for someone that doesn't I can see why it would've been a very frustrating issue.
Omni if you had to compare Elden Ring to a progressive rock song what would it be? The people need answers.
I think there's a bit of a fine line here. I understand some of the complaints that people might have with the long, multi-phase boss fights like Friede and the Sword Saint, but at the same time, I think those are also some of the most spectacular and rewarding fights that they've ever made.
It's also worth noting that the difficulty scaling might change a bit here with the open-world aspect, as I expect there'll be some freedom in terms of the order in which players tackle the content, as opposed to the more linear design of DS3 and Sekiro.
It's also worth noting that the difficulty scaling might change a bit here with the open-world aspect, as I expect there'll be some freedom in terms of the order in which players tackle the content, as opposed to the more linear design of DS3 and Sekiro.
I am curious to see how difficulty in Elden Ring plays out. One the one hand, you have From as a developer and their reputation for challenging games, and I'm sure they will continue that tradition. But on the other hand, if any part of the collaboration with GRRM is marketing and attempting to capture a larger audience, then I can see providing tools like co-op and summons and maybe clarify those to make the potential of getting through the game higher. It'll be interesting to see how they handle it.
I think this is an interesting point. I found the challenge of endgame bosses in Dark Souls 3 like Sister Friede/Nameless King/Midir to be annoying with some of the bloat and punishes, whereas, with the exception of Demon of Hatred, I didn't feel the same way about Sekiro. I found it hard as balls, but because it was testing me in different ways, I guess it didn't bother me as much. But with Dark Souls 3 needing to change things up and put a new spin on a system where there are 100 bosses preceding those bosses in roughly the same system, it is a challenge to meaningfully change the difficulty. I'm hoping then that Elden Ring provides enough tweaks to the Dark Souls formula so that it is less an escalation of Dark Souls difficulty, and more providing difficulty by finding new ways to challenge and test players.
I think this is an interesting point. I found the challenge of endgame bosses in Dark Souls 3 like Sister Friede/Nameless King/Midir to be annoying with some of the bloat and punishes, whereas, with the exception of Demon of Hatred, I didn't feel the same way about Sekiro. I found it hard as balls, but because it was testing me in different ways, I guess it didn't bother me as much. But with Dark Souls 3 needing to change things up and put a new spin on a system where there are 100 bosses preceding those bosses in roughly the same system, it is a challenge to meaningfully change the difficulty. I'm hoping then that Elden Ring provides enough tweaks to the Dark Souls formula so that it is less an escalation of Dark Souls difficulty, and more providing difficulty by finding new ways to challenge and test players.
God I hope not. And knowing how well received Sekiro was, nobody's at FROM's going to take opinions like this seriously!
I don't mind difficult stuff but I do mind bosses with too many phases because I start to get the feeling the game is making me waste my time.
Learning new attacks after 5 or more minutes of fighting isn't ok. I don't want to repeat two phases over and over again so I can just reach the 3rd one to learn a bit before dying again (since by that time I'll most likely be short on healing). It makes the learning process of a new boss fucking tedious instead of something to be excited about.
I much rather have something like Ludwig which has huge amount of patterns but only two phases.
Learning new attacks after 5 or more minutes of fighting isn't ok. I don't want to repeat two phases over and over again so I can just reach the 3rd one to learn a bit before dying again (since by that time I'll most likely be short on healing). It makes the learning process of a new boss fucking tedious instead of something to be excited about.
I much rather have something like Ludwig which has huge amount of patterns but only two phases.
I've been lurking these parts for a long while now, mostly for the infamous Omniposts 🙂 Love you and everything you're doing for this community, in those times of silence I'm at a loss for words and unable to emphasize how much ANY kind of insight into this game means to me, and most certainly, every other FROM fan... On the current topic of difficulty though, I felt I should break the lurker status and throw out this one question... Will SL1 runs still be possible in Elden Ring? Or something equivalent? I'm this guy who got that taste of adrenaline out of those games and once DS3 came out, I went in blind and straight up SL1 for the very first playthrough - I can only say that it was the most memorable and the most intense gaming experience of my life. And repeating this ordeal is something I'm desperately waiting to experience once more!
Except for the fact most bosses have two phases, only exceptions are Gael (Whose the final fucking boss of the entire Dark Souls series), Elfreide (who was designed to invoke that due to how shocking a third phase boss fight was) and Sword Saint Isshin/Demon ofHatred, two late game boss, one you don't even have to fight)
please say Atom Heart Mother please say Atom Heart Mother please say Atom Heart Mother please say Atom Heart Mother please say Atom Heart Mother
Plus Genichiro and Corrupted Monk.
And the first two phases of both bosses aren't even that different which makes things even more baffling.
You basically need to do the first phase twice so you can reach the third and see new attacks for the first time that can kill you very quickly (lightning with Gen, which you never learned the timing to counter before and can only read the explanation on how to do it, and also the vomit attack from the Monk that inflicts terror).
It's pointless.
Hah! Im watching Jan from GB playing through Bloodborne right now and it struck me how much they reuse certain gameplay themes. I've never played BB so I just assumed they kept that aspect in DS games only.
Yo this is neat, nice job. How are you adding custom animations btw? Do you make your own or import them from other From games?
Either way, its crazy to see how much Souls game modding has exploded. Feels like only this year that I noticed how far the scene has developed.
With single phases fights (Demon Souls/Dark Souls 1/Most of 2) the fight is utterly static. Sekiro's, Dark Souls 3's, and Bloodborne are on another level entirely.
While i think Sekiro did difficulty right (mostly). I think Dark Souls 3 missed the mark especially in the DLC. Enemies became too aggressive and too fast. Spamming dodges (which are also very fast) takes away from the feeling of slow and methodical gameplay that Dark Souls are known of. Some of the attack are too fast to even react to. like Pontiff's quick stab with his magic sword.
Also, it tends to throw a lot of enemies at you at the same time. This is something that Bloodborne DLC is guilty of too. In Sekiro you can easily jump/grapple out of any situation to reevaluate your strategy but in Dark Souls your only choice is to run while chugging estus like a madman.
I feel like From almost nailed the difficulty for Sekiro. Apart from Demon of Hatred and the Raging Bull. Which give me hope that Elden Ring difficulty will be more like it and far from DS3.
Also, it tends to throw a lot of enemies at you at the same time. This is something that Bloodborne DLC is guilty of too. In Sekiro you can easily jump/grapple out of any situation to reevaluate your strategy but in Dark Souls your only choice is to run while chugging estus like a madman.
I feel like From almost nailed the difficulty for Sekiro. Apart from Demon of Hatred and the Raging Bull. Which give me hope that Elden Ring difficulty will be more like it and far from DS3.
I completely agree with that. I just think since Dark Souls 3 they are starting to take things too far regarding the lenght of certain fights, which actually hurts the experience in my case.
Bloodborne fights like Ludwig and Orphan are the sweet spot for me, two phases, a bunch of patterns and reasonable health pools.
Orphan fight and Lady Maria fight are so fucking awesome.
And the gherman fight as well.
Gherman flower field arena with the First Hunter music track couldn't be more hype. Such a awesome moment.
Yap, and the second phase of ludwig gosh....
Im so fucking hyped for Elden Ring.
I've been following From since King's Field on PSX and later Demon's Souls and obviously I enjoy a good challenge, so my intent definitely wasn't to criticize From's design philosophy as a whole. You touched on pretty much everything I meant with my post and it mirrors how I feel about their trajectory in that overall it seems to be heading in a way I find pretty exhausting instead of challenging.
I also get how it must be difficult to balance new players with veterans' skill sets, sequel expectations, PvP and all the finer details going into this. I just noticed in DSIII and even more so in Sekiro that on my first playthroughs I often just walked away from the game in pure exhaustion after only a handful of tries at most while in previous titles I loved going for that 'just one more try'.
Ultimately, all I'm saying is I hope Elden Ring gets a bit of an overhaul and different approach instead of just a further continuation of more phases, more health, less room for error which, as a player, I think Sekiro pushed as far as it can go really without devolving into full-on tedium. I'm by no means looking for some From: Casual Mode type game, just think that particular style of difficulty has run its course.
PS: Thanks for taking the time to type all that up, was a nice read for me as a From fan. They are still my favorite active devs, hands down.
Look above.
I grew up thinking shitty frame rate was a stylistic choice and me and my friends called it 'slow mo'...
Needless to say I even loved Blighttown on my X360 where I originally played it much like yourself. The view alone is incredibly atmospheric, realizing your actually now down among those ancient, massive stone pillars you saw from Firelink. I know the game is full of moments like this, but that area sold that feeling of being 'down in the absolute dirt' so well.
I recently actually played Dark Souls on my new, and first since the early 2000's, gaming PC for the first time and it was amazing to finally see Blighttown at 60FPS. I wanted to shed a little tear but was immediately attacked by some asshole dog while getting nailed with blow darts and made toxic. Woohoo
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If it's not Comus' First Utterance or some equally as morbid and obscure album, From can go to hell!
On second thought, Comus is probably Bloodborne.
In my opinion I felt like the DLC bosses stand out from the main game. Especially with The Ringed City, the bosses all had something that made them stand apart. Whether it was their movement, moveset, arena, or difficulty, I honestly felt like From was trying to "break the mold" so to speak.
I make this same comment about the DLC weapons. They almost all stand out from what was given in the "vanilla" experience and felt unique. It makes me even more excited for Elden Ring thinking they may have had a similar philosophy in mind when designing weapons and bosses.
My only problem with this was, I just didn't have enough stamina to deal this with no matter the level of my character. Often I'd have to make a split second decision if it was worth the risk of attacking once or just letting the stamina bar refill after dodging those 5-6 hit combos. You can kind of see how it was stretching the limits of the stamina system, and Sekiro ditching that altogether was a logical next step.
I agree fully with all of this post. I by no means want From to lower the difficulty of their games but I feel in their most recent games theyve taken the multiple phases aspect a bit far. Sekiro is docked less for this because of how the deathblow system works, but I still would have liked it better if say Geni's 1st and 2nd phase were mashed into one. That would provide an even more varied fight early on while also removing the tedium of going through 3 phases. I say that and absolutely love the Isshin fight(again would have been better without the pointless Genichiro phase).
This. I think there is also a bit of a psychological aspect of wittling down a health bar only to have it fill up fully again for a phase 2. That makes the fight feel more tiring than it actually is. In fact, I bet Ludwig's full health pool is similar to say, Friede's/Nameless 1st and 2nd phases, but the fight doesnt feel nearly as "cheap" because we can still see the progress we've made on the healthbar.
Also, it just makes things feel much more special when there are fewer bosses who do the whole "surprise there's a whole other health bar" trick.
I also agree with this. DS3 for as great as it is, makes roll spamming the defacto method of defense. Its weird because while enemies are generally faster, the speed/iframes of rolls can completely negate the speed increase. I never felt that way with Bloodborne though. In BB if I spammed dodge more often than not I would get clipped. The combat just felt a tiny bit tighter in that game, same with Sekiro.
What you saying is you want to lower it's difficulty to suit your needs rather then the playerbase.
Which i'm glad isn't going to happen.
Obviously not being the same beast, but do you see the world and art direction in Elden Ring to be something that will change the way people approach fantasy games moving forward?
Sigh my dude...just read Omni's post again if reading comprehension isn't part of your Angry Elitist Gamer persona. Tl;dr: Nerfs, player feedback and so on.
Someone else ported all the BB player animations, and I helped him test a bunch/put together a repository with them all imported in a way that DS3 can easily access them. Any mod can just use them if they use that file now.
I would faint.
I've been waiting for a Demon's Souls remaster/remake/rekindle for so long. Probably since Dark Souls 2 came out.
I feel it'll be part of the blowout between now and July. Just a hunch, though.
it's just so well designed as a level too man. Like every time I play it I slowly learn it better.
Replaying it for the fourth time or so just made me marvel at what they achieved with some of those level designs even more. It struck me just how incredible Sen's Fortress is because I wasn't nearly as worried about getting my head kicked in as the first two times or so I played the game. It really is fantastic along with so many other areas.
And you know what's crazy? I can't remember who but there was someone who demonstrated that the poor performance was mostly due to the AI being really taxing. Like, all of it activates when you enter blighttown. There are a number of periods in the game where when you enter an area the framerate tanks as it loads all the AI in.
So the entire may have worked and performed fine, and then it was just too late to change when they were populating it with enemies. I don't know.
But whatever the case the game seems to not handle a lot of AI very well. Kind of wish they sectioned them off more cuz like those mosquitos are annoying.
I guess it really isn't but...it'd be kind of funny if those stupid fucking mosquitoes were ultimately at fault for Blighttown tanking so hard. It'd be kind of poetic considering what utter dicks they are. I swear, there's no weapon that reliably hits them even with lock-on. I was maining a great club and spear last time I went through there...oh my god.
Accessibility isn't the opposite of challenge. Accessibility reduces the artificial difficulty created by obscure game mechanics and explanations. But having a middle ground between accessibility and challenge doesn't stand as a phrase imo
DS3 and Sekiro were almost perfectly well adjusted in terms of challenge. The accessibility has improved immensely compared to the obsure direct and indirect explanation of the game's mechanics in comparison with DeS or DS1 and they were still very challenging. In fact Sekiro's final boss was the truest test of skill in a FROM game.
So yeah,they can keep on working on smoothing that entrance curve of accessibility,but the challenge should stay consistent more or less throughout the whole game. This is what will keep both new and old fans happy
The thing with DeS remake is that it would need more than a graphical remake to stand today with the rest of the Souls games. If it is indeed in the making,I wonder to what extend are they capable and willing of modifying/adding/removing things from the old version to make it up to today's standards
So if the remake rumours are true,I'm really curious how they are gonna handle it
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