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Blade Wolf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,512
Taiwan
EDIT: First let me get this straight: I am not saying having difficulty settings is bad. I'm just saying that it takes something meaningful away.

To people like us, Bloodborne and Sekiro are the absolute best gaming experience one could have in this console generation.

Not just because they are well designed and well made, many other games are well designed and well made as well.
Not just because they are responsive and fun, many other games are responsive and fun as well.
Not just because they are difficult, many other games can be just as difficult on harder difficulties.

The reason why they are such amazing and unique experiences is because they don't have easy mode.
Yes, that means some people won't be able to finish or even enjoy these games, and that might be okay or not okay to you.
On the other hand, because these games aren't made for everyone, it makes them truly meaningful to play from a gameplay standpoint.
This isn't about ''gamer's pride'', it's about sense of accomplishment.

No one gives a shit if you beat Dark Souls, but you do.

In some ways, beating Dark Souls means you beat yourself, you did something that you previously didn't think was possible. You conquered something.

There're moments where you get angry, sad and frustrated. There're moments where you wish there's an Easy mode. There're moments where you would switch to Easy mode without a question if there's one. But there's no Easy mode, either you do it or you give up. Some people give up, but you are not one of them. Despite anger and frustration, you still keep going forward. Some people freak out when they die, but you just took it like a fucking champion. Sometimes you question yourself if you can even do it, yet you still keep trying. Eventually you did it and it's the most satisfying and liberating feeling you've experienced. Here's the thing, had there been an Easy mode, you would've switched to it a long time ago, and you won't get that same feeling of accomplishment.

It's not the same thing if you have the option to switch to Easy. It's just not the same thing.
Imagine if there's a test, and you have the option to cheat without any consequence.
Even if you didn't cheat and got an A+ out of it, it still won't feel as good as getting A+ without the option to cheat.

I am not a skilled gamer, I am the kind of person that always plays on Normal in most other games, and that is exactly why I value these games so much.
These games forces me to face the challenges that I would otherwise tone down had I been given the choice.
These games forces me to face myself, they make me commit, they make me learn, they make me grow.

More choice isn't always better, sometimes it's meaningful to face something scary, and to some it can be a very powerful experience.

EDIT:

I don't think you understand my post.
I am not saying that I don't want others to play on easy mode, I am saying that I don't want myself to play on easy mode. Because I absolutely will if given the choice.

Here's my point, for those who don't get it:
If Sekiro had an Easy mode I would switch to it in a heartbeat, but the experience wouldn't be the same.
It is precisely the fact that it doesn't allow me to do that that makes the experience so much more meaningful.
 
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Deleted member 1185

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,261
Couldnt you still experience all of the things you mentioned and just not play the easy mode?

I dont understand this argument other than excluding a bunch of people
 

Jecht

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,650
There are plenty of ways to make these games easier though. Farming, Summons, etc. It's just not a direct "easy mode" option.
 

Deleted member 12129

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,021
I feel like everything you said in your post can still apply even if theres an easier mode included that you don't need to play.
 

Mullet2000

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,896
Toronto
Completely agree. I think difficulty options and accessibility are important, but I also think tailored experiences where the level of difficulty is static and fine tuned by the developer is equality important - if that is what the developer wants to design around. Something would be lost in games like Sekiro if you could toggle the difficulty away for a lot of the reasons you describe.

The difficulty is a core component of the game and everyone experiencing it at the same level is a core part of the social discussion/experience of the game.
 

bishoptl

Remember
Member
Oct 26, 2017
699
Vancouver
Choose Hard mode and flex your turgid e-peen with pride, my dude.

Other people having options to enjoy an experience - options that do not affect you at all, mind - won't kill you.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,046
I appreciate what they do, and glad they do it but I'm not going to rub it in anyones face.

It's because it makes you feel superior to those who fail.

Not sure about you, but many people have senses of self accomplishment that don't rely on other people's failings.

In this case you're on the money with this guy.
 

Gorgosh

Member
Oct 26, 2017
957
For me the real accomplishment of Sekiro is not that it is hard. It is that it's just YOU and the Game. Nothing more. You can't really level up, you can't call for help, you can't switch your Gear. You either learn the Boss, or you will fail. I am SO happy that Games like these still exist, because like you say, the feeling of accomplishment when finally beating the Boss is unmatched.
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
I've played them all except Demon Souls due to not having the console, and I disagree only on the level that if From ever decides to add a difficulty option to a future title based on their own desire, I am not going to fault them.

Not everybody can eventually overcome the challenge with trial and error and patience, so it the option existed to unlock an easy mode then hey all to them. It won't take away from my experience. Just make beating it on the normal difficulty more enticing via other means.
 

AM_LIGHT

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,725
Damn right OP, Currently playing bloodborne after trying to get into it for 2 years. I got frustrated and outright quit a few times. But this month I finally stuck to it and everything just clicked, utterly satisfying.
 

Unkindled

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,247
Everyone who plays their game's have the same type of experience which will be ruined if you add difficulty options to it.
 
Oct 29, 2017
909
I agree completely. Some games are meant to be difficult, and if people can't complete them, that's totally fine. But don't dilute the experience for those who actually enjoy these rare opportunities.
 

Vertpin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,884
FromSoftware games are unique, challenging, and ever so rewarding. I completely agree, OP.
 

Laser Man

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,683
Those games aren't even difficult bro, some rando on twitch just rushed through them taking no hit at all... very casul stuff!
 

Rodjer

Self-requested ban.
Member
Jan 28, 2018
4,808
There are PLENTY of games with scalable difficulties.

We have litterally 3 or 5 games with "fixed" difficulty and people will still moan.
 
Mar 29, 2018
7,078
It's because it makes you feel superior to those who fail.
Completely untrue

The minute I beat a crazy boss in these games I get a ton of self-satisfaction but also realise the time and energy I spent concentrating on it, which others might not have, and I head straight for boards like these to share tips and help others get through them
 

Agent 47

Banned
Jun 24, 2018
1,840
Yeh it's great they make the game they want to make without making any compromises to appeal to the mainstream.
 

Death Penalty

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,290
I mean, don't play the game.
If a developer wants to make a hard game let them do so, it's their own creation.
I never disputed that? I'm disputing that lack of easy mode for a "sense of accomplishment" is good. I've beaten all the Souls games except Sekiro, which I'm working on. Souls is not just "too hardcore" for me. I don't personally need an easy mode. I think it's ridiculous to say it's good not to have one, though.
 

Raijinto

self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
10,091
I disagree. Plenty of games evoke a similar feeling as well as having easy/accessibility features, Bloodborne/DS are not inherently better for lacking that option. And in the case of their newest game I decided to skip it for this reason, I don't have the time/patience to adapt fully as required to yet another difficult FS combat system so yeah I guess I won't be playing it for a while at least.
 

TechnicPuppet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,809
Such a bullshit argument. People have different skill levels and it would be nice to not have whole genres denied because of this.
 

MegaMix

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
786
If games are "art" then having a specific experience you want people to have is absolutely necessary. This absolutely includes difficulty. Games like Dark Souls and Cuphead would not be the same if you didn't have to overcome bosses and instead just switch to easy mode.

You have to "git gud" at these types of games and the blood and sweat from that is absolutely part of the experience.
 

Deleted member 4413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,238
Nah, I don't have time to play these types of games, specifically due to the lack of a difficulty setting. Life gets in the way. Otherwise I would love to play them.

Having a chicken shit mode for those of us with less time on our hands would be nice. In no way does that dilute the experience for everyone else playing on regular difficulty.
 

Xiaomi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,237
They would have to absolutely gut the combat system to make it easy, so I'm glad they don't. The game gives you tools to experiment with and find easier ways to do things (firecrackers are an example of something that allows you to get repeated free hits to reduce enemy life at the start of a battle and therefore have an easier time building posture damage) but short of removing many enemy attacks and the necessity of parrying it would never be easy enough for some people, even if they allowed you to take like 20 hits before you die as Bloodborne did.
 

Enforcer

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,960
For me the real accomplishment of Sekiro is not that it is hard. It is that it's just YOU and the Game. Nothing more. You can't really level up, you can't call for help, you can't switch your Gear. You either learn the Boss, or you will fail. I am SO happy that Games like these still exist, because like you say, the feeling of accomplishment when finally beating the Boss is unmatched.

You can still grind for skill points and level up medicine or spirit emblem stacks. You can also farm for confettis that make some of the bosses a cakewalk.

I get what you're saying but there are still ways in this game to make the experience easier.
 

DrBo42

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,760
Couldnt you still experience all of the things you mentioned and just not play the easy mode?

I dont understand this argument other than excluding a bunch of people
I can see that but having a game like Sekiro completely and consistently designed at X difficulty feels unlike any hard or insane mode I've ever played. I guess they could go back after and reduce difficulty across the board for someone that's unable to play the original intent.
 

OSHAN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,931
I'm fine with the From Software approach. Not every game needs to cater to the biggest market possible. If a director has a vision, let them see it through. It isn't like there aren't other games you can play.
 

Ichi

Banned
Sep 10, 2018
1,997
making something more difficult doesn't make it more meaningful. the quality of content is what makes a game meaningful, not how hard i've to try again and again because one enemy hit halves my HP. there's nothing meaningful in that.
 

Deleted member 4367

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,226
Completely untrue

The minute I beat a crazy boss in these games I get a ton of self-satisfaction but also realise the time and energy I spent concentrating on it, which others might not have, and I head straight for boards like these to share tips and help others get through them
I couldn't care less about others people failures.
I didn't care when i finished Ghost'n'Goblins years ago and i don't care now after finishing Sekiro.


But there's no Easy mode, either you do it or you give up. Some people give up, but you are not one of them.
 

finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
I agree. I hope FROM never puts an easy mode in anything they make -- the difficulty IS the game. In fact, they gave a huge middle finger to everyone asking for an easy mode by putting a HARDER MODE into what is already the hardest game they've ever made (Sekiro).
 

DocSeuss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,784
I think your take is bullshit and I think you're an ableist.

Here's the fucking deal: not everyone is as capable as you. Some of us have issues with muscle tension and coordination. I might work just as hard as you, but I got a handicap, so any accomplishment you feel, I work ten times as hard to get. It would be nice to play a game that feels just as good to me as it does to you. That's what difficulty modes are for.

The fundamental problem with assholes who think there should be no difficult modes is a lack of empathy. You think everyone shares your body, your skill level. You think everyone has the same experience.

You don't. Fuck outta here with this take.
 

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,914
Canada
Eh, I have limited time for games and have always been more interested in stories, experiences, and admiring the artistry on display.

I just want to sit on the couch, relax, and visit another world. Losing large amounts of progress because I'm not willing to commit extensive amounts of time to a particular game isn't fun to me.

Like, all glory to From Software for putting their particular vision out there, as people definitely enjoy it, but I'm not buying Sekiro because I don't have time for that BS. Yes, I may get a "lesser experience" if the game had an easy mode, but if they're up front about it, and I acknowledge this going in, who's really losing anything? I get to experience the story and world of the game, and they get my money. My experience wouldn't cheapen anyone else's perceived victories.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,396
Ibis Island
I love from games and have beaten all of the Souls Style games outside DS3 from them.
I still wouldn't mind them having a easy mode that didn't require a user to always summon. This isn't exclusive to From though, i'm very big on games being something for everyone. Regardless of skill level.
 
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