If development of the intentioned, recommended difficulty would be compromised by creating an easy mode, then no. I do not want that either.
But if it's feasible, I'm always for it.
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FromSoftware games truly evokes the sense of accomplishment, and I am glad they don't have an Easy mode (see Staff Post)
- Thread starter Blade Wolf
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If development of the intentioned, recommended difficulty would be compromised by creating an easy mode, then no. I do not want that either.
But if it's feasible, I'm always for it.
I'm not entirely for difficulties having to be added but jesus christ some Souls fans can't take criticism and differing opinions.
Sekiro wasn't for me, and I can't blame the game much, but I am a little bit worried the git gud crowd will constantly demand harder faster games that make From games even less accessible. Of course, Sekiro isn't a Souls game and we may not even get another Souls game so this worry may be for nought.
Sekiro wasn't for me, and I can't blame the game much, but I am a little bit worried the git gud crowd will constantly demand harder faster games that make From games even less accessible. Of course, Sekiro isn't a Souls game and we may not even get another Souls game so this worry may be for nought.
I don't know you, and so couldn't care less about what you think of me.
At the end of the day I'm strongly against how there are no doubt able bodied people in here that are complaining about a game being difficult, calling for inclusivity and conflating their misgivings with said difficulty with those that have disabilities that literally prevent them from not just playing hard games, but games in general.
The latter is an audience that every developer in the industry should be striving to cater to through hardware and software.
But Sekiro has an explicit and optional harder difficulty. If the one ideal difficulty is so integral to the experience then by your logic the devs have undermined their own supposed goal by letting you adjust the difficulty. The dumb old devs. If only they knew what they were going for as well as the fans did.
There's no reason to not be OK with an easy mode unless knowing that other people couldn't complete the game is part of the appeal to you
And for some of you, IT IS part of the appeal but you refuse to admit it to yourselves
And for some of you, IT IS part of the appeal but you refuse to admit it to yourselves
I'm not really interested in your hypothetical since it's not something I'm talking about or suggesting in any way. I am simply stating that celebrating a lack of options because it lets us stroke our own ego is wrong-headed, lacking in fundamental empathy, and that it reeks of meaningless gatekeeping and policing of the experiences of others. This isn't about whether FROM includes a mode or not, it's about the really gross attitudes around the possibility.
Elitism, ego, whatever you want to call the hollow thing that can only be appeased by lacking options which do not have any effect on the core experience for those who don't wish to use them. The point remains the same. As long as your experience remains intact, wanting to deny accessibility options to others on principle is ridiculously self-absorbed.
I'm not disputing this, nor advocating for creators to be forced to do anything that isn't in their creative vision. That is not the core point of the argument.
Also I'll say this again since it keeps coming up for some reason. Souls games are "for me". I've beaten all of them, without summoning, some of them on challenge runs, save for Sekiro. I'm not making this argument for myself, it's just possible for me to look beyond my experience and think that it's fine for someone to enjoy something a different way from me, especially if they cannot enjoy it the same way as me for some reason outside of their control.
To the rest of you replying to me to agree, just wanna say you're good people and I'm glad to see this is such a dominant sentiment on era despite it being a more "hardcore" crowd. I think you'd struggle to find this sort of attitude in most other enthusiast settings.
I think it takes at least a couple of weeks for people to calm down a little and really get to know the game because every first time in souls or bloodborne, you get people calling it impossible. Mastering the game takes time, and it usually takes longer than a week for an actuall consensus on difficulty to emerge with these games. It takes time to master the game and it will take longer than the weekend most people had with the game.
With other souls games, you maybe waited for the wikis to fill up, and people's general skills at the combat would increase with the amount of time and attempts they would invest. Sekiro has that too, where tactics are discovered, tips and tricks are being shared. A certain crowd needs to forget the old lessons from old souls games and get to know the new learning curve this game presents with its clashes and parries.
I think we'll have people calling this game easy in a few months time.
With other souls games, you maybe waited for the wikis to fill up, and people's general skills at the combat would increase with the amount of time and attempts they would invest. Sekiro has that too, where tactics are discovered, tips and tricks are being shared. A certain crowd needs to forget the old lessons from old souls games and get to know the new learning curve this game presents with its clashes and parries.
I think we'll have people calling this game easy in a few months time.
These games are made with the difficulty in mind. It's as big of a part of these games as jumping is in Super Mario Bros. The devs balanced every single aspect about these games around that difficulty. There is really nothing in these games that makes them impossible to master and get better at the longer you play. If that's not an option for some of you, or you just want instant gratification then these game aren't really made for you in the first place and there are millions of other games out there to play instead.
Not every game can be made for everyone. I get that some might not want to miss out on these game but it's just the way it is. Nobody would demand that a horror game or a movie be less scarier because some can't deal with it. The same logic applies here.
Not every game can be made for everyone. I get that some might not want to miss out on these game but it's just the way it is. Nobody would demand that a horror game or a movie be less scarier because some can't deal with it. The same logic applies here.
So you're fine with cheating a game, which in turn certainly doesn't make it the game the developers created, yet you don't want difficulty options that the developers would have created to their preferences?
I don't see an artist like Miyazaki compromising on his vision. Not that way. I also never expect an easy mode either, regardless of how "for it" I am.
Sekiro has been the most enjoyable From Software game for me but there are ways to praise and champion the challenge they provide without excusing the lack of options for less experienced and less-abled people. While I don't think it was the OP's intention, it's inherently an unnecessarily exclusionary position to have. From's games are good because of how intricately they're crafted, not because of how they don't let bad players finish them.
I don't really mind being called an elitist lol
I do love an artist with an uncompromising vision
I do love an artist with an uncompromising vision
Nobody demanded shit. This is From's artistic vision and if they think all you need is one game mode, why is that so hard to accept?
This forum universally agrees that publishers should never get in the way of devs and should let them do their thing. I guess that only applies if their vision lines up with yours.
for me yes...absolutely, when it comes to his games and this saga. Game has proven it sells and there is a core audience for it that demands and wants the game to be hardcore.
You want to play the game so badly? play it, adapt, get better..get mad, break things, do what you want...but why should a developer sacrifice his vision because gamers want hand holding? if you guys want an easy mode on soulsbourne games, maybe the games just arent for you.
OP
OP
I'm fine with OTHERS cheating if they want to. I would never fucking do that, for me the challenge is the point and I love it. That's why I make this thread.
Why don't you ask them? I'm not going to assume it doesn't help them, as you do. I guess you didn't play Celeste, which offers both hard as nails difficult and various easier modes. And please, most games don't have closed captions, which would be a HUGE boost to people like me with hearing softer sounds and gameplay cues.
To the last part, I wrote a few not nice things in response. You know what, you're not worth me getting banned over. Talk to you never :)
You chose the wrong platform then. What's that got to do with the option existing, or the discussion of it?
Yet you said that you would use an easy mode in the OP if the game had it?
The things that make difficulty so integral are still present on a harder difficulty, though. Arguably even more prominently than normal, as you'll probably need to get even deeper into the game's mechanics to succeed there.
That was an interesting point though, thanks.
The compromise is changing your design philosophy to cater to a larger audience. If that isn't your aim then as a creator you should be able to stick to your vision. Why do you think it would be so simple to add an easy mode? Do you know how difficult it is to balance a game? You do know that takes additional time and resources right?
From would have to change attack patterns, enemy tells, player health, player damage, enemy health, enemy damage. Half of the difficulty that comes from the game is timing. Changing that fundementally changes how each player approaches combat and if the designer wants players to engage in the combat a specific way then you have to narrow your difficulty scope as much as possible.
It's not stupid at all, the game is built around the difficulty, everything stems from it.
Why would it personally bother me? Honestly because if I'm stuck at a really hard boss, it would just feel different if there was an easy mode I could switch too, even if I didn't want too, or hell even if I kept myself from doing it. It would just feel lesser knowing I could have. 95% of the games I play I choose the average difficulty and never play it any other way. But when it's obvious the game was designed with the one difficulty in mind, and every single person struggled the same way you are struggling, IDK there is something about it.
My question is why do all these people who think From are idiots and morons want to play these games so bad? All anyone has to do in this thread is say they like the games the way they are and suddenly you are an elitist gamer. Can't think of that being the case for any other games. And if you want to play them because of how great everyone says they are, and you want to experience it for yourself. Well no one talking about how great they are played them on easy mode, and I think all of them would tell you that the challenge is what made the experience memorable in the first place.
Accessibility is important, and the people who shit all over that aren't much better than the anti-diversity GG types, IMO.
OP
OP
There're prosthetic tools that makes each boss fights easier. Also items that strengthens your defense, attack and posture.
There's also stealth and resurrection.
Before i played Bloodborne i thought From's games desperately needed a difficulty option, but playing through bloodborne, slowly understanding what the game wanted from me, and having the game "click" is one of the best feelings i've ever had in a video game, From Software went from a dev i didn't care about at all to making one of my top 10 favorite games of all time.
There's no doubt in my mind that the heart thumping bliss of defeating those bosses in bloodborne would have been completely ruined if i had switched it to easy, i would have felt like i didn't do anything to earn the victory, i would feel defeated after i turned the game onto easy.
There's no doubt in my mind that the heart thumping bliss of defeating those bosses in bloodborne would have been completely ruined if i had switched it to easy, i would have felt like i didn't do anything to earn the victory, i would feel defeated after i turned the game onto easy.
It's a point of personal pride for me in the same way that being pretty good at playing music is something I'm proud of. I don't go around telling people about it like it makes me better than others, but if someone told me it was a waste of time to get better at playing music and that it shouldn't take so much work, I would take issue with that.
Yeah good old Soulsborne games with no way to make the challenge easier, thank fuck they didn't include the ability to increase your stats or god forbid they let you summon in other people to help you with a fight. But no they held true to their vision so REAL GAMERS could enjoy it with no way to make the experience weaker (because as we know an easy mode would effortlessly break the will of a REAL GAMER lessening them and dragging them down to the level of the casual, after all despite being gods of gaming they are but human and cannot resist the allure of the difficulty level selector. Weep you casuals, weep for the sorrow your weakness causes these gods)
I'm not saying it easy, just that all this praise for them game NOT having the option is really off putting.
If this was framed and executed clearly as a mode for accessibility, I would be fine with it.
Lmao what's there to be elitist about?
You beat a game that other people who are mediocre at games can also beat with slight difficulty? Well done..
Agree 100% non-ironically with OP. I absolutely love it when games have an intended difficulty set by the developer, and reflects their intention on how the experience was meant to be played.
There is no difficulty in Super Mario Brothers. There is no difficulty in Sonic the Hedgehog. This was an era when mastery of a game still meant something.
This experience does not fit every game nowadays, nor should it. But it absolutely should exist. And although I suck at Sekiro, I am SO glad it exists without compromise.
There is no difficulty in Super Mario Brothers. There is no difficulty in Sonic the Hedgehog. This was an era when mastery of a game still meant something.
This experience does not fit every game nowadays, nor should it. But it absolutely should exist. And although I suck at Sekiro, I am SO glad it exists without compromise.
OP
OP
That's exactly why I love when games doesn't let me do that. It forces me to take on the challenge which is the point of the game.
Something that always fascinates me when this topic comes up is if you go into any OT for games such as those made by From Software, you'll see people praising the games for all kinds of reasons. These range from stuff like the level/world design, the lore of the world, armor and weapon design, the music of the games, especially in particular boss fights and speaking of which the design of the enemies and bosses themselves are another huge draw, etc. There are just so many pluses about these games that people gush about, and rightly so. And of course the difficulty comes up as well. But that's only part of the discussion and just as much if not more is spent on all that other stuff.
But yet in threads like this, all this other stuff disappears. Suddenly, it's ONLY that difficulty that matters, and the game itself would suddenly fall apart if it weren't there, or if it were there, but so much as an option, an OPTION to play it on a lower difficulty were there. All that stuff about praising the level design, the music, the monster design, the weapons, armor, etc? All vanish. Apparently, it was only ever the difficulty that mattered to begin with and any and all praise levied on those other aspects of the games were just lies since they apparently matter for fuck all if so much as an OPTION for lower difficulty were added. Nope, apparently the difficulty is the ONLY things these games have going for them at all. Music? Trash. Level design? Garbage. Music? Nothing there either. Only thing that they have going for them is difficulty.
Of course, that's pure nonsense, as you can see in any OTs for these games. There's so much more to these games than that and the idea that the difficulty is literally all they have going for them and that anything would be lost by adding even so much as difficulty options is insane to me (and quite frankly, insulting to the games and all the work that went into those other aspects of the game, and dishonest beside because, again referring to those OTs, I know that's very rarely the only part people praise). Because with those options, that hard difficulty would still be there. And not only would the difficulty still be there if people desire, but so would be the many other aspects that rightly deserve praise, like all that other stuff I mentioned.
Now, to be clear, there's nothing wrong with enjoying a game just for its difficulty. That's a very valid way of playing games, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. But nor is there anything wrong with for those other reasons, and just, say, messing around with various different weapons and builds, or just to enjoy the level design and music, or any number of reasons. And with difficulty settings, all these different players can co-exist with no harm to anyone else.
On the other hand, of course adding difficulty settings naturally comes at the cost of additional resources, for implementing them and balancing them and all that. But even there, making games more accessible by adding difficulty settings can expand the audience to more players than would have ever played the game otherwise, thus meaning more money, and that's a win-win for everyone at that point.
So I can't be against difficulty settings being added, even in games like Dark Souls. There's just so much more to gain than lose IMO.
But yet in threads like this, all this other stuff disappears. Suddenly, it's ONLY that difficulty that matters, and the game itself would suddenly fall apart if it weren't there, or if it were there, but so much as an option, an OPTION to play it on a lower difficulty were there. All that stuff about praising the level design, the music, the monster design, the weapons, armor, etc? All vanish. Apparently, it was only ever the difficulty that mattered to begin with and any and all praise levied on those other aspects of the games were just lies since they apparently matter for fuck all if so much as an OPTION for lower difficulty were added. Nope, apparently the difficulty is the ONLY things these games have going for them at all. Music? Trash. Level design? Garbage. Music? Nothing there either. Only thing that they have going for them is difficulty.
Of course, that's pure nonsense, as you can see in any OTs for these games. There's so much more to these games than that and the idea that the difficulty is literally all they have going for them and that anything would be lost by adding even so much as difficulty options is insane to me (and quite frankly, insulting to the games and all the work that went into those other aspects of the game, and dishonest beside because, again referring to those OTs, I know that's very rarely the only part people praise). Because with those options, that hard difficulty would still be there. And not only would the difficulty still be there if people desire, but so would be the many other aspects that rightly deserve praise, like all that other stuff I mentioned.
Now, to be clear, there's nothing wrong with enjoying a game just for its difficulty. That's a very valid way of playing games, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. But nor is there anything wrong with for those other reasons, and just, say, messing around with various different weapons and builds, or just to enjoy the level design and music, or any number of reasons. And with difficulty settings, all these different players can co-exist with no harm to anyone else.
On the other hand, of course adding difficulty settings naturally comes at the cost of additional resources, for implementing them and balancing them and all that. But even there, making games more accessible by adding difficulty settings can expand the audience to more players than would have ever played the game otherwise, thus meaning more money, and that's a win-win for everyone at that point.
So I can't be against difficulty settings being added, even in games like Dark Souls. There's just so much more to gain than lose IMO.
Friend, just admit you and the OP don't want it because you lack self control and would rather have everyone else excluded rather than you controlling your impulses.
And fwiw, I'm a huge souls fan. I've beaten them all save this latest Tenchu one. I still would have zero problems with easy mode.
Doesn't this new game have a harder difficulty anyway? If so that completely kills the point of artistic vision being tied to a set difficulty experience
These games are like life.
Sometimes it's hard, frustrating, and may seem impossible. But if you keep trying and you're persistent, eventually you'll accomplish the goal in front of you.
Life has no easy mode.
Sometimes it's hard, frustrating, and may seem impossible. But if you keep trying and you're persistent, eventually you'll accomplish the goal in front of you.
Life has no easy mode.
It doesn't force you because you can just cheat. Imagine if FROM's next game is only on PC. Imagine if one boss is causing you so much trouble that you've been trying to beat it for 5 days. Would you use a trainer to beat it?
think you misunderstood me/half of this entire thread
people are being called elitist for recognising that the difficulty is tied with the design philosophy of these games
Regarding hostility and misrepresenting other members
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Please be respectful and civil to one another. You can post your point of view and about what's important to you without purposefully antagonizing other members or misrepresenting their arguments.
I took care of someone with disablities for 1 year, he was an avid gamer that simply wasn't able to enjoy most games, which sucked. Easier difficulties didn't help him. Closed captions would be nice, but I don't see how that has anything to do with an easy difficulty.
Yeah, likewise. I haven't seen someone being able to mischaracterize so much in such a short amount of time in a long while, while at the same time being super transparent with their bad faith bullshit. You thought I was an elistist the second I disagreed with you and just went form there, pretending to want any sort of discssion. I don't wish anyone that you disagree with a "discussion" with you. Horrendous. Have a nice day.
Chill out lmao, you're only proving my point about not taking criticism well, and I meant demand in an economics sense. They aren't coming up with these ideas in a vacuum, not considering what their consumers would want and what would sell well.
And people who want an easy mode lack the self control to be patient, learn the mechanics and overcome the challenge of a game meant to be challenging.
This is so fun!
This is the first game from them that after every difficult encounter I don't get that feeling of accomplishment. I feel relieved to never have that fight again. Its the only game I have no desire to start over, and I still havent finished my first run.
This game is tedious on so many levels...
This game is tedious on so many levels...
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