Frostpunk arrives on the Microsoft Store (Windows 10)

Rychu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,318
Utah, USA
I expect "Mods" on a UWP title to be similar to the Bethesda Creation Club shit Vs Real Fallout/Skyrim mods
See, the great thing about W32 is that you don't need to wait for someone else to add officially sanctioned support for mods. You can just go right ahead and modify that executable yourself.
Oh congrats. They want to support one of the fundamental parts of PC gaming.

I bet it's something around like creation club stuff. Nothing like Nexus.
It’s not like Nexus but it isn’t as restricted as Creation Club either, it’s like Steam Workshop. According to job listings, developers can easily enable “Xbox Live mod support for any Windows 10 and/or Xbox One game they publish”.
 

Madjoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,494
Windows Store and UWP isn't same thing tho.

It’s not like Nexus but it isn’t as restricted as Creation Club either, it’s like Steam Workshop. According to job listings, developers can easily enable “Xbox Live mod support for any Windows 10 and/or Xbox One game they publish”.
I'll believe when I see.

Regardless as long as it's something developers must support, not even half of games will support. Compare to Steam Workshop.
And Modding will be limited to what developers decide to allow (just like Steam Workshop).
Microsoft has said many times they're not planning to let users run custom code, which non supported mods in most cases are (like script extenders), because "they contain Chrome keyloggers".
 

grosbard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
608
It's not going to happen overnight, but Win32 is going away and there is nothing you can do about it. Windows 10 S already set this in motion, most people emailing and Wording on their laptops or whatever will just be ignorant towards the issue and won't get the free Win32 unlock - which is there to ensure MS looks like the good guys here. Then app devs will have to make UWP to reach everybody again. Games will probably take a while longer but it's happening anyway.
Windows 10 S was a complete failure. UWP has a long way to go before it's mainstream and an even longer way to go before it's good for PC gaming.
 

Akronis

Lizard Daddy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,552
It's not going to happen overnight, but Win32 is going away and there is nothing you can do about it. Windows 10 S already set this in motion, most people emailing and Wording on their laptops or whatever will just be ignorant towards the issue and won't get the free Win32 unlock - which is there to ensure MS looks like the good guys here. Then app devs will have to make UWP to reach everybody again. Games will probably take a while longer but it's happening anyway.
I literally talked to Microsoft Engineers two weeks ago and they said Win32 is going no where lol.
 

Noobcraft

Member
Nov 23, 2017
326
This would be a tough sell for me because it exists on GOG, but if it weren't I'd gladly purchase it on the windows store primarily because I refuse to touch Steam.
 
OP
OP
SuikerBrood

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
10,804
Jez maybe this isn't the right topic to ask, but would it be possible to have an interview with someone from the Xbox or Windows team about the problems 'hardcore gamers' have with UWP? Would be interesting to see their perspective.
 
OP
OP
SuikerBrood

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
10,804
You seem upset.
Does it bother you that the MS Store is growing?
I can understand his fears, MS isn't interested in the open aspect of pc gaming as much as Valve is.
But.. I do think UWP is the future, because it has Microsoft's backing. And by the way, we have no clue if the MS Store has any growth. I think most people never use the store. The change in revenue cut that was announced last week doesn't make it look good.

Also, it's a difficult thing for Microsoft. Windows is getting less important to the company and it is becoming less relevant by the day. PC Gaming is a core market they still have, but they don't earn a lot of money from that market.

At some point they'll stop developing Windows on this scale and maybe gamers will move to Linux one day?
 

zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,614
Well...wouldn't that be a question to ask during E3 ;). I've always said that people were going to hate UWP for the unrestricted access for modding as all the other issues would go away over time. Oh and Win32 is going to be around for a long time. But that's not this topic.

OT: Good to see more games come to the store.
 

Akronis

Lizard Daddy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,552
No. As i said he dislikes the store, but likes UWP
I talked about your statement. The opposite is true.
The Store has issues, but UWP is not one of them.
Certainly not the main.
UWP is still not feature parity with Win32 and by design will never be (it also never preventing the one thing it was supposed to, cheating)

It will always be inferior. I don't give a shit about an app being able to seamlessly switch monitors lmao
 
Last edited:

Soony Xbone Uhh

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,156
UWP is still not feature parity with Win32 and by design will never be (it also never preventing the one thing it was supposed to, hacking)

It will always be inferior. I don't give a shit about an app being able to seamlessly switch monitors lmao
It does some things better than Win32
It does some things worse than Win32
It does some things just different than Win32

Maybe that is your stance but 99% of the world does not give a shit if an app is UWP or Win32.
They just want it to work well for what it is supposed to do.

And that is the reason why the Windows 10 Store has issues and UWP is not the reason for those.
But maybe i missed all those complaints about Sea of Thieves being not a Win32 application and that being the big issue.
 

Akronis

Lizard Daddy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,552
It does some things better than Win32
It does some things worse than Win32
It does some things just different than Win32

Maybe that is your stance but 99% of the world does not give a shit if an app is UWP or Win32.
They just want it to work well for what it is supposed to do.

And that is the reason why the Windows 10 Store has issues and UWP is not the reason for those.
But maybe i missed all those complaints about Sea of Thieves being not a Win32 application and that being the big issue.
A large portion will care when things like DSFix cease to exist. But sure, you don't have to care. A lot of people do. Maybe people wouldn't care if mods weren't a large part of why you are able to play older games today.

If Microsoft ever decides to address those things (reminder that a large part of PC gaming are things like DLL injection, for better or worse, and unauthorized mods) then I'll retract my statement. Until then, it's inferior.

Also, I have no idea what you're talking about with Sea of Thieves lol talk about a non-sequitur

If someone can explain to me how UWP is ultimately better for the consumer in its current state, I'd love to hear it. Actively removing large features (stuff that makes people actually buy games on PC) is not something I would trade for whatever tiny improvements UWP makes over Win32.
 

Soony Xbone Uhh

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,156
Mods...
UWP can support mods.
Many people play old games because of BC.
Windows 10 will be the last OS until some major shift in computing happens. So why wouldn't you be able to play those games in 5 or 10 years? Or even 15.
Most people play new games. They don't care about old games and mods.


If that what determines for you being inferior or not, fine. But as i saidy most people don't give a fuck about that stuff.
But they do if you can't download a game properly. If you have login problems or if a store is missing a good search function and other basic features.

That are the complains and rightfully so.
UWP is something positive.
 

Akronis

Lizard Daddy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,552
Mods...
UWP can support mods.
Many people play old games because of BC.
Windows 10 will be the last OS until some major shift in computing happens. So why wouldn't you be able to play those games in 5 or 10 years? Or even 15.
Most people play new games. They don't care about old games and mods.


If that what determines for you being inferior or not, fine. But as i saidy most people don't give a fuck about that stuff.
But they do if you can't download a game properly. If you have login problems or if a store is missing a good search function and other basic features.

That are the complains and rightfully so.
UWP is something positive.
Can only do developer supported mods. DSFix wouldn't exist in Dark Souls UWP.

What backwards compatibility on PC lol? And can you prove to me that Windows 10 is going to be the "last" OS for 15 years? What happens if that changes? I don't have to worry about that now if people can make fixes for existing titles.

"Most people play new games." What an absolutely anti-consumer statement to make. Again, I don't have to worry about this shit with UWP.

You have literally 0 proof of any of this shit and it's all conjecture. Right now, UWP is absolutely an inferior way to package applications and the current roadmap does not show it getting any sort of parity with Win32. You're shitting on a large part of what makes PC gaming great with some of the weakest arguments I've ever seen. This is probably one of the most embarrassing posts I've seen defending UWP, good lord.

I'm honestly questioning if you even game on PC with some of the shit you say.
 

clamj00ce

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
60
Canada
Can only do developer supported mods. DSFix wouldn't exist in Dark Souls UWP.

What backwards compatibility on PC lol? And can you prove to me that Windows 10 is going to be the "last" OS for 15 years? What happens if that changes? I don't have to worry about that now if people can make fixes for existing titles.

"Most people play new games." What an absolutely anti-consumer statement to make. Again, I don't have to worry about this shit with UWP.

You have literally 0 proof of any of this shit and it's all conjecture. Right now, UWP is absolutely an inferior way to package applications and the current roadmap does not show it getting any sort of parity with Win32. You're shitting on a large part of what makes PC gaming great with some of the weakest arguments I've ever seen. This is probably one of the most embarrassing posts I've seen defending UWP, good lord.

I'm honestly questioning if you even game on PC with some of the shit you say.
Thats the one thing you notice about people who support UWP they don't game on the PC they just support the XBOX brand.
 

SirVilhelm

Member
Oct 27, 2017
391
A lot of angry posts about UWP lol

Who's disrespecting you? Microsoft owns Windows and if you don't like it move to Linux, wtf is the fuss about.

I am more curious about what publishers think about UWP. I am willing to bet they'll start pushing it if it means more control of their IP. The walled garden has been very successful for Apple and Google with their apps you bet Microsoft is jumping on that same bandwagon. You'll see Windows becoming just another walled garden. It will happen and you won't stop it.
 

Akronis

Lizard Daddy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,552
A lot of angry posts about UWP lol

Who's disrespecting you? Microsoft owns Windows and if you don't like it move to Linux, wtf is the fuss about.

I am more curious about what publishers think about UWP. I am willing to bet they'll start pushing it if it means more control of their IP. The walled garden has been very successful for Apple and Google with their apps you bet Microsoft is jumping on that same bandwagon. You'll see Windows becoming just another walled garden. It will happen and you won't stop it.
I don't give a shit about what publishers think lol, I'm a consumer. This is bad for me as a CONSUMER. Also lol if you think UWP gives people any more "control" over their IP. Again, what proof is there of that? What does that statement even mean in this context?

And yea I'd love to go to Linux but it's super disingenuous to just wave off people's complaints by saying "hurr durr go somewhere else"

PC gaming<>Windows gaming
PC gaming includes Windows gaming.
 

SirVilhelm

Member
Oct 27, 2017
391
I don't give a shit about what publishers think lol, I'm a consumer. This is bad for me as a CONSUMER. Also lol if you think UWP gives people any more "control" over their IP. Again, what proof is there of that? What does that statement even mean in this context?

And yea I'd love to go to Linux but it's super disingenuous to just wave off people's complaints by saying "hurr durr go somewhere else"
Hurr Durr seriously go somewhere else if you want freedom. I am not joking when say Windows will be a closed platform. And before you get even more pissy I am not advocating uwp, I just see the writing on the wall.

You should care what publishers think because it will give you insight as to where this is heading. You can continue to be pissed and have your head stuck in the sand or take a look around at today's landscape. If publishers like UWP and decide that it gives them some protection, even if it's false protection, they'll start using it and may opt to use it exclusively. You better bet your ass that's what MS is hoping for.
 

Zexion

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,089
It's not going to happen overnight, but Win32 is going away and there is nothing you can do about it. Windows 10 S already set this in motion, most people emailing and Wording on their laptops or whatever will just be ignorant towards the issue and won't get the free Win32 unlock - which is there to ensure MS looks like the good guys here. Then app devs will have to make UWP to reach everybody again. Games will probably take a while longer but it's happening anyway.
Completely false.

MS themselves have said multiple times that Win32 Is NEVER Going away due to how engrained it is in the workplace / consumer markets. With what Little they have spoken of Polaris (Next OS after W10), It's been stated that Win32 will take the sidelines, but will still be usable Via Virtualization (Whether it's Local or Remote Virtualization is yet to be figured out.)


EDIT:
Who's disrespecting you? Microsoft owns Windows and if you don't like it move to Linux, wtf is the fuss about.
Windows isn't the main platform for gaming for a reason. MS did this themselves by platform locking DirectX.

If publishers like UWP and decide that it gives them some protection, even if it's false protection, they'll start using it and may opt to use it exclusively. You better bet your ass that's what MS is hoping for.
Yeah because everyone is totally using UWP for gaming now.

The more you talk, the more it sounds like you have 0 clue what you are talking about, just keep quiet.
 

Akronis

Lizard Daddy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,552
Hurr Durr seriously go somewhere else if you want freedom. I am not joking when say Windows will be a closed platform. And before you get even more pissy I am not advocating uwp, I just see the writing on the wall.

You should care what publishers think because it will give you insight as to where this is heading. You can continue to be pissed and have your head stuck in the sand or take a look around at today's landscape. If publishers like UWP and decide that it gives them some protection, even if it's false protection, they'll start using it and may opt to use it exclusively. You better bet your ass that's what MS is hoping for.
What a mature response. No shit Microsoft wants a closed platform, they've been the laughing stock of the security world forever.

It's an issue when they try to shove their garbage into games where it doesn't fit. They can use UWP for everything else, I don't care about that. UWP works for that sort of stuff. It's bad for gaming. Fortunately Win32 is not going anywhere so hopefully developers who actually care won't use UWP.

All you've come into this thread to do is shit on people with serious concerns which is both sad and hilarious.
 

SirVilhelm

Member
Oct 27, 2017
391
What a mature response.

All you've come into this thread to do is shit on people with serious concerns which is both sad and hilarious.
You either are way too worked up to be civil or need to work on your reading comprehension. I have not "shit on people" who have concerns. Maybe take a break and relax before keyboard warrior'ing. But I do hope you got a good chuckle, and hit me up in a couple years when win32 is dead on Windows. We can have a beer and laugh at the absurdity of it all. Until then, you're on the ignore list.
 

Jeffrey Guang

Member
Nov 4, 2017
676
Taiwn
I like uwp apps because uwp has a lower chance to negatively affect the whole PC system. The uwp version of iTunes, for example, is for that reason, far superior than the win32 version. And many are more than happy to replace the app with the store version.

I think it'll interesting to see the consensus on this site after mod support had roll out to uwp. The dislike of the platform will at that point be a philosophical one.

Edit: And as Chinese developers rise up to dominent the industry, I'll only install uwp versions of their game from now on. I am a Taiwanese and I don't want Chinese to plant some monitoring tool in my personal PC. I won't be able to mod one of Tencent's property, but the privacy and security will be worth it.
 
Last edited:

Lukas Taves

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,321
Brazil
He was super quick to respond the first time, been waiting a little while for a follow up though.
Well duh, the only store that sells uwp right now has extra protection for mods, that doesn’t mean uwp can’t.

And he’s right, the last platform updates was essentially to bring uwp and win32 closer and closer together to the point where soon it won’t matter for a capability perspective.
 

Dr Wily

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,112
But maybe i missed all those complaints about Sea of Thieves being not a Win32 application and that being the big issue.
IIRC there were a lot of complaints about its lack of options like not being able to run at an uncapped framerate and not being able to downsample without fucking up your desktop resolution, both of which are non issues with win32 titles.
 

Madjoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,494
I like uwp apps because uwp has a lower chance to negatively affect the whole PC system. The uwp version of iTunes, for example, is for that reason, far superior than the win32 version. And many are more than happy to replace the app with the store version.

I think it'll interesting to see the consensus on this site after mod support had roll out to uwp. The dislike of the platform will at that point be a philosophical one.
UWP probably works best for simple applications. (iTunes isn't UWP native tho, it's win32 using centennial bridge).
But that aside, clean uninstall is good. The real issue is iTunes (and many others) is garbage that install tons of extra crap and are very complex entanglement of various dependencies, that others may use too.
Even Microsoft things like Office and Visual Studio, probably impossible to fully uninstall, without nuking Windows install.

For most of games that isn't really issue anymore thankfully.

Hurr Durr seriously go somewhere else if you want freedom. I am not joking when say Windows will be a closed platform. And before you get even more pissy I am not advocating uwp, I just see the writing on the wall.

You should care what publishers think because it will give you insight as to where this is heading. You can continue to be pissed and have your head stuck in the sand or take a look around at today's landscape. If publishers like UWP and decide that it gives them some protection, even if it's false protection, they'll start using it and may opt to use it exclusively. You better bet your ass that's what MS is hoping for.
Publishers rely on users for income, if userbase isn't supporting UWP, then no sense moving there.
I mean Square Enix is even seemingly dropping support, they released Rise of the Tomb Raider and FFXV on UWP.
But seemingly Shadow of the Tomb Raider is moving back to being Steam exclusive. It's safe to assume, It probably didn't do extremely well (despite being cheaper than Steam copy initially).
 

TehPotentialz

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,362
UWP is still not feature parity with Win32 and by design will never be (it also never preventing the one thing it was supposed to, cheating)

It will always be inferior. I don't give a shit about an app being able to seamlessly switch monitors lmao
UWP was not made to prevent cheating lol.

UWP has so many benefits over Win32 that people on here just can't see because they hate MS and want to be outraged. The overwhelmingly large majority of PC game players couldn't care less about modding.

Win32 isn't going anywhere anyway. It will always be there, just not natively.

Still waiting on a single advantage UWP has for the PC customer
Are you being serious? You really don't know anything about what UWP actually is if you can't think of a single advantage it brings.
 
Last edited: