I can dig up some quotes from this thread later, but just look at the endless drivel about how UWP not supporting mods is just unacceptable. Fair that me saying 100% is off, but...
I'm curious: how do you know this? And if this is true, why on earth hasn't Microsoft provided this option from the beginning? It seems unlikely this is because UWP isn't mature yet, because Microsoft actually had to add new features to protect UWP files and to store them in an encrypted container.
This being said: if people will be able to fuck around with DRM-free uwp apps the same way they're able to today on win32, one of the most significant reasons for me (and probably many other PC gamers) to boycott the Windows Store for PC gaming would be gone. This would also mean that Steam and other stores can support UWP games without losing features or options
I'm sure ~37k people that are playing Skyrim on Steam right now, 7 years after its release, are playing it for the quality of the vanilla game and not mods. Nobody cares about mods. That's also the reason Bethesda brought mods to consoles.
I can dig up some quotes from this thread later, but just look at the endless drivel about how UWP not supporting mods is just unacceptable. Fair that me saying 100% is off, but...
it can be unacceptable to some people and make them want to not support itI can dig up some quotes from this thread later, but just look at the endless drivel about how UWP not supporting mods is just unacceptable. Fair that me saying 100% is off, but...
People on console don't care about mods because they don't have them, surprise.37k playing Syria is nothing next to the millions playing something like Granbury Fantasy or Call of Duty and GTA5 on consoles.
Once again, its not that there isn't a market for mods, or that mods haven't been important to the industry at large, but arguing that lack of mod support in UWP is some horrible thing and a reason to avoid UWP for most gamers is ignoring the fact that mods don't even enter the equation for most gamers. Even if your argument is that many popular game originated as mods to other popular games, that doesn't mean that anyone playing those games really care or should care.
all of that third-party junk you have to deal with like DRM, third-party window management wrappers, etc, is due to Win32 being a mess. guess Microsoft ever envisioned Windows would become the standard way to desktop compute for the next few decades.
You should look up the definition of irony while looking up the definition of strawman. Or I guess you have that study to hand to backup your claim that "most gamers" don't care?
Literally some of the biggest titles on the planet right now only exist due to mods. Titles that have more players than Xbox Ones have even sold.
People on console don't care about mods because they don't have them, surprise.
People on PC care about them, because they have them, surprise.
All of Nexusmods, ENB, ReShade, Sweetfx, wide-screen mods, community patches, UI mods, savegegame editors, CheatEngine, trainers, dsfix, dpfix, FAR, SpecialK, GeDoSaTo, changing music, removing startup logos,... The list goes on.
Unofficial alterations to games is huge on PC.
And it's understandably annoying when you get told by primarily console gamers that all of that isn't really important and Papa Microsoft knows best, trust them and everything is going to be fine come next Build, despite them having a shaky history with PC gaming at best.
I trust Microsoft with this stuff, people also say I'm crazy though so, idk, maybe I am.
Play Anywhere is a compelling reason to accept the trade off that's part of UWP.
This is ridiculous. Most PC gamers don't have an Xbox, so play anywhere is useless for them. And even if it wasn't, cross-buy and cross-play are no excuse to lock down PC gaming.
FYI: Steam is offering cross-buy and cross-play between Windows, Linux, Mac and SteamOS as well.
I did not say "excuse," I said "compelling reason to accept the tradeoff," the implication there being for people who value it. Like me. It turns out that there are people who are not the same as you, and that doesn't make them garbage - which was the point of my post.
Yeah, till the mod explodes and is so popular that the mod becomes it's own game.1) I am not saying modding isn't important. Just that it's not used by most gamers and most don't care about modding.
1) I am not saying modding isn't important. Just that it's not used by most gamers and most don't care about modding.
2) Just because there is a ton of modding on PCS and you are personally involved in that community does not also imply even 5% of the PC gaming community cares or uses mods.
3) Mods are on consoles for Skyrim, FallOut4, Cities Skylines, and a few others.
4) If mods were as important as you and many others are acting like it is, all major game developers would be doing work to support and enable the mod community explicitly. Compared to the budgets needed for a modern AAA game, enabling a good modding experience is realities cheap. When most of these companies won't even make a basic investment into the activity, that alone tells you how valuable and large the community is.
As a counter point, look at Minecraft. It was clear modding was extremely valuable for that game and as a result it supported the modding community early and often.
This is ridiculous. Most PC gamers don't have an Xbox, so play anywhere is useless for them. And even if it wasn't, cross-buy and cross-play are no excuse to lock down PC gaming.
FYI: Steam is offering cross-buy and cross-play between Windows, Linux, Mac and SteamOS as well.
Yeah, till the mod explodes and is so popular that the mod becomes it's own game.
A big part of innovation/new genres only exists because of mods.
Counterstrike, Team Fortress, MOBAs, Tower Defence, Battle Royale, ...
The most popular games out there right now, aka DOTA, LOL, PUBG, Fortnite are all based on mods. Overwatch too is heavily inspired by Team Fortress, a mod. Also counter-strike. The modding community is hugely influential, even if you may not be aware of or directly impacted by it.
League of Legends originated from Defense of the Ancients on Warcraft 3. A modding system like Warcraft 3 has should be completely possible with UWP. And something like Steam Workshop has made games as Cities Skylines much better.
I understand the need for full game modding and I don't think your complaints are invalid. But for most games full mod support from either MS or the dev is already more than enough.
most gamers could give 2 fs about them and never use them and not care whether buying a copy of a game they want on the Windows Stores prevents them from being able to mod the game.
"Most PC Gamers" don't loose anything in this case.Most PC Gamers don't run Linux or MacOS so it is useless for Steam to support it.
"Most PC Gamers" don't loose anything in this case.Most PC Gamers don't have a GTX1060 or higher so it is useless for games to spend money to add textures and other support for those cards.
You have this twisted, 2 fs were given when CoD launched on the Windows Store.Mods can be beneficial to the industry even if most gamers could give 2 fs about them and never use them and not care whether buying a copy of a game they want on the Windows Stores prevents them from being able to mod the game.
It's not just MOBA games; there's also the Battle Royale and the Team-based Shooters. The bigger deal is that UWP works against the concept of open gaming that allows for mods, and that's something that gives the Windows Store bad press amongst PC gaming enthusiast circles.League of Legends originated from Defense of the Ancients on Warcraft 3. A modding system like Warcraft 3 has should be completely possible with UWP. And something like Steam Workshop has made games as Cities Skylines much better.
I understand the need for full game modding and I don't think your complaints are invalid. But for most games full mod support from either MS or the dev is already more than enough.
The main reasons are probably that the Windows Store gives so little to users that there's little incentive to use it and that the other storefronts are better established and more convenient to use. However, the lack of mod support drives away the PC gaming enthusiasts so there's no one left to cheerlead for games on the Windows Store other than Xbox fans. And as they're Xbox fans, these gamers are primarily playing on consoles hence their input doesn't count for all that much.I know this poster has me on ignore, so maybe someone else would care to explain why the sales of titles via the W10 appstore are so bad when apparently 'nobody' cares about the missing features that purchasing from there results in.
Maybe everyone is just a 'hater'.
The popularity of the Windows Store has skyrocketed.So.. this thread has like three times more posts than the official Frostpunk thread.. let that sink in..
"Most PC Gamers" don't loose anything in this case.
"Most PC Gamers" don't loose anything in this case.
You have this twisted, 2 fs were given when CoD launched on the Windows Store.
Good games don't need defending?So.. this thread has like three times more posts than the official Frostpunk thread.. let that sink in..
I didn't ...
I think you'll find that many people do not care about the "open nature" of PC gaming. The amount of people modding games is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. Even DS Fix, something you constantly bring up, only has like 2 million downloads wasn't it? The PS4 has sold 80 million consoles in 4 years and it's not an open platform. Most big games on PC are online only and you get banned quick smart for moddingIt seems plenty of people are willing to sacrifice the open nature of PC gaming for a higher gamerscore. That makes me sad to be honest :(
I think you'll find that many people do not care about the "open nature" of PC gaming. The amount of people modding games is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. Even DS Fix, something you constantly bring up, only has like 2 million downloads wasn't it?
People saying UWP was made to prop up windows phone and Xbox are, again, showing that they have no idea what UWP is or why it was created. It's a common theme with all these bash UWP/Microsoft store threads.
In the early days, UWP was presented to developers as a way to build apps for Windows 10 Mobile and IoT (build a responsive app that runs across all screen sizes, on both mobile ARM and x86 PC architecture).
I thought I smelled a little funny...
Play Anywhere is a compelling reason to accept the trade off that's part of UWP. There are lots of things I don't like about the Store and being a user of UWP games, but it's not as though there is no upside.
And before the inevitable "But you can have cross-play/buy without UWP" sure, I could wish for a lot of things to be true, but as it stands a unified store and account is the only way that it currently happens.
lol?
If that was true it would still be its own distro, not a toggle for regular windows.
It wasn't made for phones, it was made for the future - all devices of all sizes and form factors. One code base to run on anything with minimal effort for developers. Are phones one of those form factors? Absolutely. Were phones the reason why UWP was made? Not at all. UWP is a safe, secure, write once release everywhere, future proofed format. It was not made to prop up phones and xbox.
No, having a completely separate version of Windows just for S mode is dumb, which is why they've just made it a toggle in the regular code base. It's much better and easier to manage as a toggle.
So.. this thread has like three times more posts than the official Frostpunk thread.. let that sink in..
Most PC Gamers don't run Linux or MacOS so it is useless for Steam to support it.
Most PC Gamers don't have a GTX1060 or higher so it is useless for games to spend money to add textures and other support for those cards.
Most Gamers don't care about locked down games on Consoles and Mobile and Console + Mobile is a significantly larger market than PC gamers so it's useless for developers to worry about supporting markets that aren't locked down.
/s
There's a difference between supporting a feature, and adding a feature at the cost of several other features.
Given how few users mod or care about modding, building a UWP version of a game and releasing it on the Windows Store likely trumps any concerns about upsetting a few users that will care about that locking out current modding solutions, especially if the product is also planned for distribution on other market places that do not prevent modding for users who want that flexibility.
It also doesn't keep working on something if it was built for an explicitly failed product. IE - If UWP was for Windows Phone, it would also be dead now. See Microsoft Band & The new Microsoft Health stuff they were pushing.
I'm legitimately surprised you have never used an unofficial community bugfix patch, an ENB type image quality fix (even just removing piss filters), a third party controller support fix or played a MOBA.I'm a pc gamer and I had no clue there was a huge modding community. The things you learn.
They're locked into the appstore because its far to late to redeem the GFWL storefront.
Come Nextbox, I wouldn't be surprised to see both quietly killed off.
I'm a developer myself so I know, trust me. :)
But there's no connection between cross-play/buy, and locking game files to prevent modding, tweaking and community content. As I've said before: Valve is offering these features as well, yet they don't lock down anything.
I'm pretty sure that much more PC gamers care about modding than Play Anywhere. Those "few users" you're talking about are millions of people, often the most dedicated PC gamers. Being able to mod, alter, tweak and improve games to your own liking is one of the most significant perks of PC gaming. What Microsoft offers is the console experience: you buy a game "as is", and you can't change anything without support from the developer.