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Frozen 2 |OT| Avatar: The Last Icebender (Open Spoilers)

What did you think of Frozen 2?

  • I loved it!

    Votes: 128 30.1%
  • I liked it

    Votes: 130 30.6%
  • I thought it was okay

    Votes: 125 29.4%
  • I didn't like it

    Votes: 28 6.6%
  • I hated it

    Votes: 14 3.3%

  • Total voters
    425

pigeon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,475
I feel like you're all sandbagging the amazing spectacle that was Kristoff's power ballad. It was perfect. The piano, the sick guitar riffs, effects, the backup vocals, everything.


She didn't know what she was looking for. That would've required her to run all over the damn forest freezing shit to find the appropriate memory water. The river/glacier was a nexus of all the memory water. It's also clear that the memories contained within that glacier are a lot more solid and lengthy than the slivers of time that she pulled out of the forest and the ship. As for Anna being exactly where she needed to be, she really wasn't: Elsa shot that magic message before she died and it found its way to Anna, it didn't head straight for that cave at random. They technically could've followed her if Elsa attached a rope from the ice death canoe to the horse. The primary issue with her getting there was that the water horse hated visitors and made the seas difficult to traverse. They go calm after she tames it.
Anna actually being at the glacier would’ve been awful, though, because then she wouldn’t have been able to get back and destroy the dam. So in that sense she was where she needed to be.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
7,938
I feel like you're all sandbagging the amazing spectacle that was Kristoff's power ballad. It was perfect. The piano, the sick guitar riffs, effects, the backup vocals, everything.


She didn't know what she was looking for. That would've required her to run all over the damn forest freezing shit to find the appropriate memory water. The river/glacier was a nexus of all the memory water. It's also clear that the memories contained within that glacier are a lot more solid and lengthy than the slivers of time that she pulled out of the forest and the ship. As for Anna being exactly where she needed to be, she really wasn't: Elsa shot that magic message before she died and it found its way to Anna, it didn't head straight for that cave at random. They technically could've followed her if Elsa attached a rope from the ice death canoe to the horse. The primary issue with her getting there was that the water horse hated visitors and made the seas difficult to traverse. They go calm after she tames it.
Oh, I know the ice sculpture was sent specifically to Anna, I meant that she happened to be right next to the rock monsters and within running distance to the dam with Kristoff and Sven getting picked up along the way, so in that sense she was where she needed to be instead of all the way up on the banks of the north river.
 

Sub Boss

Member
Nov 14, 2017
12,122
Probably, it wouldn't be the first movie that got neutered thanks to executive meddling. Anyway what matters was that it hit the emotional high points effectively.



I actually thought her envisioned direction of the movie was entirely wrong. The whole thing about the original Frozen was that it subverted the usual Princess movie emphasis on romantic bonds, instead opting to play up on the familial bond between the sisters. The natural direction of the sequel should have been to explore the bonds with their parents - one of my main takeaways was that Anna was cheated, she only got to hear things thirdhand at best, while Elsa got filled in on backstory at Ahtohallen and did that whole call-and-response with Iduna.

The spirits should have left as an ambiguous meta-enemy in the film, which would then be a (wo)man versus nature conflict.
The writers had a somewhat different version of the story where Arendelle actually gets destroyed. Characters were actually developed, and Anna had a purpose, a vision, and growth. But Disney needs to sell toys. This probably went thorough so many cuts and rewrites that it is amazing that the end product is still so entertaining the way it is, whilst still making a little bit of sense.
I don't understand why a good story would go in the way of making toys its not like there is anything new besides the water horse, the northern tribe and a new dress everything else is the same if anything the writting is the weak part i can't imagine Disney executives saying no to their golden goose
 

moronica

Member
Oct 28, 2017
37
"Into the Unknown" sequence has been uploaded. Hopefully "Show Yourself" comes sometime soon.

Nah, I don't think Disney wants to release a major spoiler sequence while it's still playing in theatres. I would watch it until it burned into my screen though.

One thing that is only evident on repeat viewings is that when Agnarr finishes telling his story, little Anna says she loves whoever rescued him. Iduna simply smiles knowingly and covers Anna's head with her shawl, which I thought was a nice touch.
 

Alpha Baymax

Member
Dec 3, 2019
51
Looks like I'm "that guy" who prefers the original over this. I guess I prefer Anna over Elsa, and seeing as the original Frozen was designed with Anna as the protagonist, her adventure and character pathos is just more enjoyable's than Elsa's.
 

Farmboy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
340
Looks like I'm "that guy" who prefers the original over this. I guess I prefer Anna over Elsa, and seeing as the original Frozen was designed with Anna as the protagonist, her adventure and character pathos is just more enjoyable's than Elsa's.
Also prefer the original. Far stronger theme, overall better songs and had more purpose for the side characters. 2 isn’t a bad sequel though.
 

Z-Beat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,777
Conversation between me and my best friend walking out of the theater went like this:

"So I don't get what she was, exactly."
"She was the Avatar."
"You know, I didn't get it initially but when you said that, everything made sense."
"She's the bridge between worlds."
 

Joe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,560
I do question the tactical thinking of a King who decided that, in order to defeat what looked like a much less militarily sophisticated people, the best move was to build a dam for his enemies, on their land, such that if the dam were destroyed, it would wipe his own entire kingdom off the face of the Earth. He basically built an ICBM for the Northuldra, designed it so it could only hit Arendelle, and gave the launch codes to the Northuldra. Hell, if his plan works, it actually gives the Northuldra an incentive to fire the missile, too!

Maybe their grandpa was just the Mad King Aerys Targaryen?
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
7,938
I do question the tactical thinking of a King who decided that, in order to defeat what looked like a much less militarily sophisticated people, the best move was to build a dam for his enemies, on their land, such that if the dam were destroyed, it would wipe his own entire kingdom off the face of the Earth. He basically built an ICBM for the Northuldra, designed it so it could only hit Arendelle, and gave the launch codes to the Northuldra. Hell, if his plan works, it actually gives the Northuldra an incentive to fire the missile, too!

Maybe their grandpa was just the Mad King Aerys Targaryen?
I dunno, after decades the enemies couldn't even defeat five aging guards.
 

Cortez

Member
Oct 29, 2017
712
I wanted to love it I really did but this film is just ‘your kids will want everything!!’ and by the time Elsa got a new costume I was pretty confident that this film exists just to sell merch. Toy Story 2 it ain’t.
 

Z-Beat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,777
I dunno, after decades the enemies couldn't even defeat five aging guards.
It's implied that they stopped fighting when the fog rolled in, at least for the most part.

Even then, I agree with the other poster. It was a very, very stupid plan. It basically relied on the idea that the dam would destroy an entire ecosystem before anyone, including the spirits, realized that the dam was destroying the ecosystem, and the backup plan was to murder the elder in the middle of a fucking party, but also if the dam breaks your entire kingdom gets wiped out. Hope those rock giants don't catch on...you know, the ones who at the time were friends with the people you were trying to kill

Reminds me of The Mummy where Imhotep gets a harsh-ass punishment but if someone reads from this book he gets world-ending superpowers and immortality
 

moronica

Member
Oct 28, 2017
37
It's implied that they stopped fighting when the fog rolled in, at least for the most part.

Even then, I agree with the other poster. It was a very, very stupid plan. It basically relied on the idea that the dam would destroy an entire ecosystem before anyone, including the spirits, realized that the dam was destroying the ecosystem, and the backup plan was to murder the elder in the middle of a fucking party, but also if the dam breaks your entire kingdom gets wiped out. Hope those rock giants don't catch on...you know, the ones who at the time were friends with the people you were trying to kill

Reminds me of The Mummy where Imhotep gets a harsh-ass punishment but if someone reads from this book he gets world-ending superpowers and immortality
The whole backstory with the grandfather was a really ham fisted attempt at social commentary. Trying to spin an Aesop just doesn't work - I think someone earlier pointed out that given all the troubles that Elsa's powers have caused, they seem more like a punishment for her grandfather's sins, rather than a reward for the love between her parents.

Who else has replayed show yourself on YouTube a million times already.
Me, good lord. The video has over 6 million views, I'm singlehandedly responsible for like 15% of them.
 
Last edited:
Oct 29, 2017
3,954
Australia
Who else has replayed show yourself on YouTube a million times already.


At the moment I'm on listen number 1,533,890. Playing it at full volume with headphones on is a religious experience.

"Show Yourself" gets played the most, but the whole soundtrack is fantastic. I think as more time passes more people will realise that this truly is one of the greatest, most well rounded soundtracks Disney has ever put out.

I mean even Olaf's song is amazing thanks to those awesome instrumentals. "Some Things Never Change" is the weakest song and yet it still sits firmly in the good category.
 

Joe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,560
It's implied that they stopped fighting when the fog rolled in, at least for the most part.

Even then, I agree with the other poster. It was a very, very stupid plan. It basically relied on the idea that the dam would destroy an entire ecosystem before anyone, including the spirits, realized that the dam was destroying the ecosystem, and the backup plan was to murder the elder in the middle of a fucking party, but also if the dam breaks your entire kingdom gets wiped out. Hope those rock giants don't catch on...you know, the ones who at the time were friends with the people you were trying to kill

Reminds me of The Mummy where Imhotep gets a harsh-ass punishment but if someone reads from this book he gets world-ending superpowers and immortality
Yeah. It's not even really clear why the dam screwed with the spiritual ecosystem so much, or how their grandfather knew that. It was an enormous gamble to try and destroy a people that, as far as I can tell, the Arendelle army could've just wiped out anyway. The cause of this whole spiritual imbalance thing that motivates the entire plot of the movie is super convoluted, and then the solution is to sing to the ice queen hundreds of miles away, and pray that she knows enough about the legends to know what to do. I only saw the movie once, maybe I missed something in the lore, because I'm trying to reconstruct it in my head and getting a lot of questions

I also thought the wall of mist surrounding the enchanted forest would be more of an obstacle than it ended up being.
 

Z-Beat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,777
Yeah. It's not even really clear why the dam screwed with the spiritual ecosystem so much, or how their grandfather knew that. It was an enormous gamble to try and destroy a people that, as far as I can tell, the Arendelle army could've just wiped out anyway. The cause of this whole spiritual imbalance thing that motivates the entire plot of the movie is super convoluted, and then the solution is to sing to the ice queen hundreds of miles away, and pray that she knows enough about the legends to know what to do. I only saw the movie once, maybe I missed something in the lore, because I'm trying to reconstruct it in my head and getting a lot of questions

I also thought the wall of mist surrounding the enchanted forest would be more of an obstacle than it ended up being.
I think the idea was that backing up the river and diverting the flow was messing up the local wildlife, and the reason they opted for this instead of a straightfoward invasion was because they feared Captain Planet

#fifthelementisheart