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Frozen 2 |OT| Avatar: The Last Icebender (Open Spoilers)

What did you think of Frozen 2?

  • I loved it!

    Votes: 145 31.1%
  • I liked it

    Votes: 141 30.3%
  • I thought it was okay

    Votes: 134 28.8%
  • I didn't like it

    Votes: 31 6.7%
  • I hated it

    Votes: 15 3.2%

  • Total voters
    466

Uzzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,505
Just watched it with my little niece and nephew, who both loved it. The songs were decent, especially Into The Unknown and Lost in the Woods (which was amazing and hilarious at the same time). Lots of songs with meaning and lessons too, which is going to sink into a lot of kids, which can only be a good thing. Elsa crossing the Dark Sea was a very good looking sequence, and in general the film looked great.

Plot felt a bit weak though. The overall thrust I appreciated, but the third act wasn't even there. They could have at least stretched that out for a moment, keep Anna's instant determination to destroy the dam to set things right, even at the cost of Arendelle, which was legitimately excellent, but maybe don't give her the solution immediately. Maybe she needs to go talk to the Northundrans first to figure it out? That'd have given them a bit of a role. And the Arendelle soldiers probably shouldn't have instantly bought her plan too either.
 

Xagarath

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,732
North-East England
I felt like this could have been trimmed a little bit - there are one too many moments nodding to the first - but otherwise really liked it. Animation was incredible, songs were overall stronger than the first, and this is a more meditative, thoughtful story than I can remember Disney doing. If Arendelle had been destroyed it wouldn't have been that far removed from Princess Mononoke.
 
OP
OP
BDS

BDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,869
Saw it a second time, how is nobody talking about Anna telling Kristoff she prefers him in leather lmaooo
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,193
Saw this Friday with my kid (he’s 2.5). He fucking loved it. He loves Olaf and kept asking where the snowman was whenever he left a scene. He couldn’t stop giggling during the growing up song with Olaf and my wife (who doesn’t like animated movies or musicals) was laughing during the Olaf recap. His favorite part was the ending when Anna is running and then Elsa stops the flooding.
I feel like overall I enjoyed the music more than the first, which I was not expecting. The first couple songs felt whatever and Into the Unknown felt too much like trying to rekindle Let It Go, but it picked up and the rest were fun. I was cracking up at Kristoff’s ballad -even though they obviously had no idea what to do with him.
The story isn’t any worse than the first one. Both are kind of odd when you step back and think about how little is really explained or how in both there’s a part where Elsa tells Anna to go away and rather than safely keep her at bay, she puts her in mortal danger. What a terrible sister.
It’s just strange they had to be told as kids about this enchanted forest that really only became off limits some 30 years prior. That all these soldiers were still there and people I guess gave up on them? That they were living there all this time and for some reason they weren’t privy to the King’s plans to kill the other leader or that none of the forest people remembers how the fighting started or voiced how the dam was killing the forest. Oh and I guess the water spirit is a horse, the fire is a salamander, the earth are a bunch of giants and the wind is.....wind?
And don’t get me started on sending a message to Anna near the end about what happened. How did Elsa find her from the Fortress of Solitude? And did they really go with copying the plot of the Fifth Element?
Still enjoyed it.
 

Duane

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,001
Hang on, a day later something is confusing me. Why didn’t Dad want to tell the girls that his rescuer was Mom? I mean, he knows, right? Is it a secret that she’s from the northern people? Who do the girls think their grandparents are on their mother’s side? Where do they think she grew up? Is it a secret from them and/or the kingdom or something?
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,193
Hang on, a day later something is confusing me. Why didn’t Dad want to tell the girls that his rescuer was Mom? I mean, he knows, right? Is it a secret that she’s from the northern people? Who do the girls think their grandparents are on their mother’s side? Where do they think she grew up? Is it a secret from them and/or the kingdom or something?
Shhhhhhhhhhh
 
OP
OP
BDS

BDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,869
Hang on, a day later something is confusing me. Why didn’t Dad want to tell the girls that his rescuer was Mom? I mean, he knows, right? Is it a secret that she’s from the northern people? Who do the girls think their grandparents are on their mother’s side? Where do they think she grew up? Is it a secret from them and/or the kingdom or something?
When Elsa is in the ice cave in Ahtohallan she sees her parents (as adults) and her mother says she needs to tell him something. So he did not know she was his rescuer until he was an adult.

I'm guessing he lost his memories when she saved him. In the trailers for the movie there's a scene where you can see little Iduna walking into Arendelle with some reindeer, I'm guessing there was a cut flashback that explained she was on the other side of the mist when it fell over the forest and she went to Arendelle and made up a fake backstory and put herself back into Agnarr's life again. There's also a cut scene from the first teaser trailer of Iduna and Agnarr playing in the woods that wasn't in the movie either.



On closer look this looks like the dam from the forest, not Arendelle. But in any case it's clear there were more flashbacks of Iduna and Agnarr as children that probably explained more.
 

Jeff Albertson

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
633
All the clips I heard before and the Elsa dolls songs all seemed to be based around Into the Unknown, they also showed nothing of Elsa’s final form in trailers from what I saw.

Did they intentionally keep ‘Show Yourself’ under wraps knowing that would be the breakout, Let it Go sequence?
 
OP
OP
BDS

BDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,869
All the clips I heard before and the Elsa dolls songs all seemed to be based around Into the Unknown, they also showed nothing of Elsa’s final form in trailers from what I saw.

Did they intentionally keep ‘Show Yourself’ under wraps knowing that would be the breakout, Let it Go sequence?
It's because the song and the sequence itself are sort of spoilery.
 

Ionitron

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
246
Well, just saw it. I have to think on it for a bit but I was actually pretty bored watching it, I’m really disappointed. I’ll say, I did like Frozen as much as I liked most Disney movies I guess, but I did expect Disney to make something more coherent than what we got.

Again, gotta think on it more though.
 

Ramala

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,749
Well, just saw it. I have to think on it for a bit but I was actually pretty bored watching it, I’m really disappointed. I’ll say, I did like Frozen as much as I liked most Disney movies I guess, but I did expect Disney to make something more coherent than what we got.

Again, gotta think on it more though.
I don't think it's as enjoyable an 'DAS movie'' as the first. I think it's a better 'film'. If that makes any sense.
 

Ionitron

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
246
I don't think it's as enjoyable an 'DAS movie'' as the first. I think it's a better 'film'. If that makes any sense.
I totally understand what you’re saying but I also disagree.

I feel like the movie tried to be more about finding oneself, grieving(?), colonialism? I dunno. It definitely tried to be more mature, which by all means I totally appreciate, but I did not think it was implemented well and felt kinda disjointed/boring : (
 

Ramala

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,749
I totally understand what you’re saying but I also disagree.

I feel like the movie tried to be more about finding oneself, grieving(?), colonialism? I dunno. It definitely tried to be more mature, which by all means I totally appreciate, but I did not think it was implemented well and felt kinda disjointed/boring : (
Fair enough.I probably need to see it again. The central narrative did seem like it was crafted as a ‘reflection of our times’ political division analogy versus a typical DAD heroes journey/villains plot type deal. I totally get where you’re coming from.
 

Brock Reiher

Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,450
I liked that Olaf made sure that the audience didn't feel left out of the theme of inevitable loss due to the ravages of time by directly telling the audience at least once (I think twice?) that we have visibly aged in the past 6 years.

I feel like the movie tried to be more about finding oneself, grieving(?), colonialism? I dunno. It definitely tried to be more mature, which by all means I totally appreciate, but I did not think it was implemented well and felt kinda disjointed/boring : (
It's mainly about dealing with change, and all the good and bad it brings I think. It's not an accident that the whole thing takes place in Fall.
 

SteveMeister

Member
Oct 31, 2017
496
I can’t help but wonder if at one point they’d intended to keep Elsa dead, or perhaps incorporeal as the fifth spirit. Bringing her back so quickly made her sacrifice and Anna’s grief meaningless. And they’d still have ended up with queen Anna. Would’ve been harder on the kids, but it kinda feels like that was the direction at one point.
 

Xita

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,998
Saw it, pretty good. I don’t think it was better than the first, but it was still enjoyable.

So glad I wasn’t spoiled on Into the Unknown. So good.
 

Sub Boss

Member
Nov 14, 2017
12,195
So i just watched FROZEN 2 and it was ok

First the visuals are amazing, ice animates beautifully everythings looks so realistic and i dare say it, magical, its expected from Disney but FROZEN 2 is a beautiful movie, from the autum leaves to creepy mountains to icy lands and scary sea.

The songs are awesome too,well most of them but its a stronger show than the first movie, Disney knew they had to top Let it Go and they did freaking did it, there us a hilarious one from the dude in the middle, into the unknown and show yourself will obsses girls young and old for years to come.

The visual and mosic team deserve applause and all praise.

Now the plot, the interesting part as how the story of Elza and Ana continues, i never thought much about the original FROZEN besides the songs, and this sequel doesn't change that but it still was surprisingly underwhelming

Its a bunch of nothing, repeated themes and wasted potential,every hard choice the characters make gets undone the next scene, characters touch some 'mature' themes in a dumb way that goes nowhere, it introduces some interesting story beats and world building only to throw it away for a gimmick and the themes it has are overdone and handled better on other movies

A possible fire elemental person? its a dumb salamander, an animal sidesick.

They needed/wanted to destroy the city so Arendelle doesn't become a sign of treachery and unite their people, but no Elza arrives at the last moments to stop it with her ice powers
Olaf finds eace and dies after his existencial crisis? No he is brought to life like nothing, makes Ana worrying look dumb in retrospective.
Elsa sacrifices herself to know the truth, and for some reason she turns to ice
Everyone liked the relationship between Ana and Elza right, make it 80% the new movie

And some other stuff i fogot etc etc pocahontas did this better and i dont even like that movie.
Anyways, 6/10 for Disney a solid sequel but not much more zero risk.

It confirms TANGLED > FROZEN to me TANGLED ended with the superior low budget sequel instead of the big theatre show
now THIS is how you make a sequel to an animated movie with lots of worldbuilding and fun and surprises! 😁😁

watch it everyone its awesome

WITH THE WIND IN MY HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Nov 13, 2017
5,391
All the clips I heard before and the Elsa dolls songs all seemed to be based around Into the Unknown, they also showed nothing of Elsa’s final form in trailers from what I saw.

Did they intentionally keep ‘Show Yourself’ under wraps knowing that would be the breakout, Let it Go sequence?
I think so. I listened to the soundtrack before I saw it and based on the lyrics and Evan Rachel Wood’s voice, I knew Else was going to find her somehow and that Elsa was the McGuffin they were searching for.

In a few weeks I’m sure they’ll start marketing that spoiler outfit. Give kids a reason to buy a new doll lol
 

Avalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,573
hey, how are ya :)

I didnt think this thread was only to say positive things, or ONLY for people that liked it, lol do carry on then
Just because you don't like something doesn't make it trash. I understand if you didn't like it. That's fine. Calling it trash, though? Without any explanation other than "you can believe me, I liked the first movie;" You're just shit posting.
 

thecouncil

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,029
I liked this exchange when Kristoff scooped Anna up as she was being chased by the stone giants:

Anna: Kristof!
Kristof: I'm here. What do you need?
Anna: To get to the dam.
Kristoff: You got it.

No questions asked. He usually treats her like she's an absolute shithead, so it was refreshing to see him trust her judgment for once.
 

F Trump

Member
Jul 12, 2019
715
I enjoyed it. Was nice getting the back story on their parents and why Elsa has her powers. I also loved how the movie takes place in the fall, the surroundings were gorgeous. Not quite as good as the original but a solid follow up.
 

jorgejjvr

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,852
Just because you don't like something doesn't make it trash. I understand if you didn't like it. That's fine. Calling it trash, though? Without any explanation other than "you can believe me, I liked the first movie;" You're just shit posting.
believe what you want, it obviously affected you deeply

wasnt shit posting, i saw it recently and that was my initial reaction, if i chose to do so, ill add more details later

short version, boring, no memorable songs, lackluster story, not a fan of what they did with the characters, just forgettable altogether

only positive was the visuals, that water was impressive
 

FenninRo

alt account
Banned
Nov 13, 2019
84
I enjoyed it. Was nice getting the back story on their parents and why Elsa has her powers. I also loved how the movie takes place in the fall, the surroundings were gorgeous. Not quite as good as the original but a solid follow up.
+1 the fall visuals were just incredible. While I voted that the movie was just OK, I'm still looking forward to watching it again once the Blu-ray comes out. I'm sure I'll see it dozens more times if it's even half as popular with my kids as the first one is.
 

El_TigroX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,646
New York, NY
Quite enjoyed it, but we couldn't help but feel that it was hard to follow for younger kids. The kids in the theater grew increasingly loud and asked a lot of questions in the middle of the movie, and any time Olaf was gone, they were confused.

Part of me wanted them to show Olaf completely getting dissolved because that would absolutely cause some childhood trauma issues. That scene was played for good effect.

I think it was pretty bold of them to even TRY a sequel after the first one... and they pulled it off (mostly). Some good jokes, great new music... and some fun material that worked for parents/older set (80s hair rocker Into the Woods montage).
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,443
Huge fan of the first one.

Didn't like part 2 all that much. (voted "It was okay") Plot was way too contrived. The 'menace' that drove the plot was too vague. (As opposed to eternal winter in Arendelle). I was never sure of what exactly the stakes were - apart from the moment when Elsa was frozen solid and Olaf had temporarily passed away.
Not a huge fan of the whole proposal thing with Kristoff.

What rubbed me the wrong way about the songs was that - when in part 1 the songs felt organic, like 'character development and plot progression conveyed through song'; many songs in the sequel felt ... too intentional, too on the nose.

That being said, i loved Kristoff's (kind of) solo number 🤣
And the fall visuals were fantastic, of course.
Panic at the Disco during the credits was ... unexpected.

Regarding the plot:
So, the nature spirits engulfed the woods in mist because they were pissed about the dam? Or because they were really pissed about the conflict? What did the dam do? It was apparently 'bad' for those Inuit-like folks, but in what way - we were never shown. Was it bad for the nature spirits or the wood itself?
There were so many plot threads that were hinted at which were only resolved in a very rushed / superficial way. Elsa being the "fifth element", Elsa's mom being a ... uhm ... "Northerner", the conflict between the two people, what that whole frozen magical island was all about - apart from being another fortress of solitude (and source of epiphanies) for Elsa.

I enjoyed it. Was nice getting the back story on their parents and why Elsa has her powers. I also loved how the movie takes place in the fall, the surroundings were gorgeous. Not quite as good as the original but a solid follow up.
Do we, though? I still kinda don't know how Elsa got her powers, do we? Is she adopted? Is she the manifestation of the fifth nature spirit? Is it some kind of 'chosen one thing' that there's always one human that serves as the conduit for this kind of magic connection?
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,826
This was an Elsa movie in search of anything to do with the other characters. Her feeling chained by the throne was an interesting idea that just came out of nowhere with her first song, one of the only decent ones in a movie full of duds.

There were good ideas here but the execution wasn't there.
 

FenninRo

alt account
Banned
Nov 13, 2019
84
Regarding the plot:
So, the nature spirits engulfed the woods in mist because they were pissed about the dam? Or because they were really pissed about the conflict? What did the dam do? It was apparently 'bad' for those Inuit-like folks, but in what way - we were never shown. Was it bad for the nature spirits or the wood itself?
There were so many plot threads that were hinted at which were only resolved in a very rushed / superficial way. Elsa being the "fifth element", Elsa's mom being a ... uhm ... "Northerner", the conflict between the two people, what that whole frozen magical island was all about - apart from being another fortress of solitude (and source of epiphanies) for Elsa.

Do we, though? I still kinda don't know how Elsa got her powers, do we? Is she adopted? Is she the manifestation of the fifth nature spirit? Is it some kind of 'chosen one thing' that there's always one human that serves as the conduit for this kind of magic connection?
They made a big deal about water having memories and being important to the magic of nature, so I'm guessing the dam was blocking that water from flowing to Arendelle, which pissed off the nature spirits? Not really sure, honestly... Also not sure why the northerners appreciated the building of the dam or needed it in the first place. Also not sure why breaking it would drown all of Arendelle if that water obviously didn't pose a problem before the dam was built, or are we supposed to believe they built up the current kingdom in just the last 30 years?

Elsa and Ana are, as a pair, manifestations of the fifth nature spirit that is supposed to form a bridge between the magic of nature and the normal people in Arendelle... I think? Either way, her mom was a northerner, so I assume they meant to convey that her powers passed down from her mom's side and their connection to nature and its magic, and that's why Elsa belonged in the north.

Honestly, I'm a bit confused about the details, too.
 

Pirate Bae

Era's Problematic Fave
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
3,879
??
They made a big deal about water having memories and being important to the magic of nature, so I'm guessing the dam was blocking that water from flowing to Arendelle, which pissed off the nature spirits? Not really sure, honestly... Also not sure why the northerners appreciated the building of the dam or needed it in the first place. Also not sure why breaking it would drown all of Arendelle if that water obviously didn't pose a problem before the dam was built, or are we supposed to believe they built up the current kingdom in just the last 30 years?

Elsa and Ana are, as a pair, manifestations of the fifth nature spirit that is supposed to form a bridge between the magic of nature and the normal people in Arendelle... I think? Either way, her mom was a northerner, so I assume they meant to convey that her powers passed down from her mom's side and their connection to nature and its magic, and that's why Elsa belonged in the north.

Honestly, I'm a bit confused about the details, too.
The spirit was mad because Runeard built the dam to deceive the Northuldra and weaken them so that he could invade. It was deception made under the false pretense of trust and peace. When Runeard murdered the northern leader, the spirit isolated the forest and everything in it from the world, until things could be made right by Arendelle.

During this, Iduna rescued Agnarr and as her reward for her kindness, the spirits rewarded her with Elsa, who was the bridge between spirits and mankind. Her mother didn’t have powers.
 

thecouncil

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,029
I took the dam as a symbol of the betrayal of the Northuldra and the spirits. An offensive reminder of the past. Like Confederate statues today. Had to come down.
 

FenninRo

alt account
Banned
Nov 13, 2019
84
The spirit was mad because Runeard built the dam to deceive the Northuldra and weaken them so that he could invade. It was deception made under the false pretense of trust and peace. When Runeard murdered the northern leader, the spirit isolated the forest and everything in it from the world, until things could be made right by Arendelle.

During this, Iduna rescued Agnarr and as her reward for her kindness, the spirits rewarded her with Elsa, who was the bridge between spirits and mankind. Her mother didn’t have powers.
Sure, but why did the Northulda want the dam in the first place, and how did its destruction threaten Arendelle? That part had me very confused.

Also, wasn't there a line in there that said that both Elsa and Anna together are the bridge (which I believe is the embodiment of the fifth spirit)? Maybe I'm misremembering.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,528
Sure, but why did the Northulda want the dam in the first place, and how did its destruction threaten Arendelle? That part had me very confused.

Also, wasn't there a line in there that said that both Elsa and Anna together are the bridge (which I believe is the embodiment of the fifth spirit)? Maybe I'm misremembering.
The dam was supposed to 'strengthen' their bond to the water by keeping more of it up there. Destroying it NOW would destroy arendelle because a giant flood unleashed by all the pent up water. Didn't think it was too confusing.
 

Pirate Bae

Era's Problematic Fave
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
3,879
??
Sure, but why did the Northulda want the dam in the first place, and how did its destruction threaten Arendelle? That part had me very confused.

Also, wasn't there a line in there that said that both Elsa and Anna together are the bridge (which I believe is the embodiment of the fifth spirit)? Maybe I'm misremembering.
It threatened Arendelle because if it was destroyed the water would destroy the town.

The Northulda accepted it as a gift from Runeard because he told them it would help them.

She says something like “they had two daughters”, meaning that Anna’s place is as queen and Elsa’s place is as protector of the spirits. They’re not the bridge together, as I see it, but I guess that part’s up to interpretation. The entire “Show Yourself” sequence is about Elsa discovering she is the fifth spirit.
 

FenninRo

alt account
Banned
Nov 13, 2019
84
The dam was supposed to 'strengthen' their bond to the water by keeping more of it up there. Destroying it NOW would destroy arendelle because a giant flood unleashed by all the pent up water. Didn't think it was too confusing.
The part the confused me was that, wouldn't the modern Arendelle have been underwater before the dam was built if destroying it would completely submerge the city? Either it wouldn't, and it wasn't a threat, or we're supposed to believe that the entire city and castle was constructed in like... 10 years or so after the dam was built? Maybe I don't understand how dams work.
 

PatriotSaro

Member
Nov 8, 2019
43
The part the confused me was that, wouldn't the modern Arendelle have been underwater before the dam was built if destroying it would completely submerge the city? Either it wouldn't, and it wasn't a threat, or we're supposed to believe that the entire city and castle was constructed in like... 10 years or so after the dam was built? Maybe I don't understand how dams work.
Dams stop the flow of water from a river right? The water that was supposed to be flowing builds up behind the dam and if a dam breaks, that excess water has to go somewhere. Was was safe once before is suddenly at risk