• An old favorite feature returns: Q&ERA is back! This time we'll be collecting questions for Remedy Entertainment, makers of Max Payne, Alan Wake, Quantum Break, and Control. Members can submit questions for the next 15 hours, 32 minutes, 3 seconds. Submissions will close on Dec 12, 2019 at 12:00 AM.

Frozen 2 |OT| Avatar: The Last Icebender (Open Spoilers)

What did you think of Frozen 2?

  • I loved it!

    Votes: 145 31.1%
  • I liked it

    Votes: 141 30.3%
  • I thought it was okay

    Votes: 134 28.8%
  • I didn't like it

    Votes: 31 6.7%
  • I hated it

    Votes: 15 3.2%

  • Total voters
    466
Oct 29, 2017
3,991
Australia
Right before Elsa freezes, she shoots that message into the air with ice magic, calls out for Anna, and that snow message finds Anna. Anna recognizes her grandfather and puts some things together. She knows the stories and recognizes the characters.
Yep, this. How exactly is that hard to follow? It makes perfect sense. I guess someone wasn't paying much attention...
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,991
Australia
Don't mind me folks, I'm just here for your daily reminder that "Show Yourself" is a masterpiece.

Lyrically: 10/10
Vocally: 10/10
Visually: 10/10



I've said it before and I'm going to say it again, this song is Disney's magnum opus. It's one of cinemas greatest movie scenes and the single best song Disney has ever produced.

It's legitimately the GOAT Disney song.

Yes. THE. GREATEST. OF. ALL. TIME!!!
 

YukiCT

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,068
My view was that being the source of power and memories, seems like the further you go, the more memories witnessed but also much more power required to resist. Elsa taking a leap into the darker colder depths to seek answers would have been beyond her own limits. She's strong and powerful but she's mortal. Further explanation is pretty much dissection of why things are the way they are in folklore that I don't think was intended to know why. Sometimes, it's just because it's nature/magic.

And yeah, Anna immediately deduces the mystery only because Elsa sends the ice message to her right before she freezes what she needs to do. The voices literally spelling out that The Dam itself is damaging the surroundings and was used as part of a deception, it's pretty clear what needed to be done. The whole journey is about Elsa self discovery and working together with Anna even with how far they've separated.

Elsa's ice magic reveals to her other information about the past, like when they see the ice statue of their young mother and father. There is no clear reason why any of this journey needs to happen.
The statues are events in which Elsa herself knows in that point in time and location. She knows her father was saved but didn't know who saved him initially for example, or the shipwreck scene and all these memories source back to Ahtohallan so if one were to seek all the answers, you would go directly there. Even from a story point, she only really first utilizes this ability after discovering her parents quest which at that point, it was even more vital for Elsa to journey to Ahtohallan to discover and complete what her parents started but also because that's also the source of Elsa's powers and the answers she's looking for both to self discovery of herself and also the past.

Don't mind me folks, I'm just here for your daily reminder that "Show Yourself" is a masterpiece.

Lyrically: 10/10
Vocally: 10/10
Visually: 10/10

I've said it before and I'm going to say it again, this song is Disney's magnum opus. It's one of cinemas greatest movie scenes and the single best song Disney has ever produced.

It's legitimately the GOAT Disney song.

Yes. THE. GREATEST. OF. ALL. TIME!!!
Yeah, it's my favourite too. I'm actually wondering how they're going to top it in the next film because the animation to accompany the song was just absolutely breathtaking.
 

Leeness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,801
Don't mind me folks, I'm just here for your daily reminder that "Show Yourself" is a masterpiece.

Lyrically: 10/10
Vocally: 10/10
Visually: 10/10



I've said it before and I'm going to say it again, this song is Disney's magnum opus. It's one of cinemas greatest movie scenes and the single best song Disney has ever produced.

It's legitimately the GOAT Disney song.

Yes. THE. GREATEST. OF. ALL. TIME!!!
I don’t know if I’d go as far as best ever, but it’s an insanely strong song/sequence.





phew.
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,991
Australia
Yeah, it's my favourite too. I'm actually wondering how they're going to top it in the next film because the animation to accompany the song was just absolutely breathtaking.
Don't even get me started on the animation. The way Iduna looks at Elsa proudly. The way Elsa gets so emotionally overwhelmed mid transformation by putting her hands over her mouth when looking back at Iduna. The way she gets distracted by her flowing shoulder pieces causing her to turn her head away from Iduna and look at her dress. The way she tears up when she finally feels total inner peace.

The way at the very end she completely loses herself in the moment and swishes the mist around in the most breathtakingly theatrical way (this part was animated so insanely well that it actually looked like it was done with motion capture).

I mean I haven't even touched on quite possibly the best shot of the whole movie - the stunning slow motion horse riding at the very start of the song. I just...AHHHHHHHH! Literally everything about the song is perfect. Literally everything.

 

KarneeKarnay

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,151
Here is my super hot spicy take. Show yourself is just another version of let it go. It's still a great song, but it's just let it go with a hat and a fake mustache.
 

ProfessorLobo

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,151
Here is my super hot spicy take. Show yourself is just another version of let it go. It's still a great song, but it's just let it go with a hat and a fake mustache.
I thought this as soon as the music started. The difference is I knew exactly what the song was about from a character point of view, and so it actually resonated. I still don't know what the fuck show yourself was trying to convey. I think the movie was going for a "discovering who you really are" motif, but "it's your fate to become the fifth element and live with the native people" just didn't come across very well.
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,991
Australia
Here is my super hot spicy take. Show yourself is just another version of let it go. It's still a great song, but it's just let it go with a hat and a fake mustache.
No shit? How is that a hot take? LOL.

"Show Yourself" is a better written, better sung, more complete "Let It Go." It's really familiar in structure, and yet different enough to stand on its own.

It compliments "Let It Go" so beautifully. It's a lovely climax for Elsa with her finally at peace and understanding where she truly belongs. "I AM FOUND!" It's f***ing majestic.

 

KarneeKarnay

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,151
I thought this as soon as the music started. The difference is I knew exactly what the song was about from a character point of view, and so it actually resonated. I still don't know what the fuck show yourself was trying to convey. I think the movie was going for a "discovering who you really are" motif, but "it's your fate to become the fifth element and live with the native people" just didn't come across very well.
Same. I thought it kind of betrayed the original in that way. Elsa found acceptance and love from the people around her and her kingdom who were fearful of magic. The sequel turns it back on that and goes, well she's where she belongs.
 

Frodo

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
974
I loved the movie. With that being said it doesn't answer any questions and if anything if just introduces a lot more complicated questions. Jenny's video is completely on point.

Show Yourself goes in so deep.
 

ProfessorLobo

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,151
Don't mind me folks, I'm just here for your daily reminder that "Show Yourself" is a masterpiece.

Lyrically: 10/10
Vocally: 10/10
Visually: 10/10



I've said it before and I'm going to say it again, this song is Disney's magnum opus. It's one of cinemas greatest movie scenes and the single best song Disney has ever produced.

It's legitimately the GOAT Disney song.

Yes. THE. GREATEST. OF. ALL. TIME!!!
Everyone will forget about this movie and by extension this song in six months.
 

Smoolio

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
571
No lies detected, Show Yourself is the greatest of all time, and the gayest of all time.
 
OP
OP
BDS

BDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,869
No shit? How is that a hot take? LOL.

"Show Yourself" is a better written, better sung, more complete "Let It Go." It's really familiar in structure, and yet different enough to stand on its own.

It compliments "Let It Go" so beautifully. It's a lovely climax for Elsa with her finally at peace and understanding where she truly belongs. "I AM FOUND!" It's f***ing majestic.

Fuuuuuck so good, I need to go a third time
 

Einbroch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,168
Yeah, just a couple days later and I’ve already forgotten about this movie. The songs are just...weak. Shame, but they all can’t be masterpieces.

It really felt like a direct-to-DVD sequel, which are enjoyable in their own way.
 

TropicalFish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
459
INTO THE UNKNOOOOOWWWWWWWWN.

Plot was... alright? I was expecting more flashbacks involving the mother tbh.
 

WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,494
Canada
Because of rewrites. Otherwise Kristoff wouldn't propose at the end / have his 'Lost in the Woods' song.

This sounds like it's happening during game night if it stayed in.
could have had some cheesy drama to shut down the engagement in the middle, still have lost in the woods, then have them get back together again

damn the song is so good
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,324
Atlanta GA
Here is my super hot spicy take. Show yourself is just another version of let it go. It's still a great song, but it's just let it go with a hat and a fake mustache.
Not really a hot take, it's meant to showcase how far Elsa has come since that moment. Like, part of "Let It Go" even replays in front of Elsa during the sequence and she cringes. It's very much meant to be a companion piece to "Let It Go"
 

Elandyll

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,423
Don't mind me folks, I'm just here for your daily reminder that "Show Yourself" is a masterpiece.

Lyrically: 10/10
Vocally: 10/10
Visually: 10/10



I've said it before and I'm going to say it again, this song is Disney's magnum opus. It's one of cinemas greatest movie scenes and the single best song Disney has ever produced.

It's legitimately the GOAT Disney song.

Yes. THE. GREATEST. OF. ALL. TIME!!!
Ok...
To me, it's not even top 3, in just THIS movie.
 

SpongeCab

Banned
Sep 30, 2019
103
Looking back and re watching the movie, man does it really have some big holes that needed to be filled
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
7,981
Same. I thought it kind of betrayed the original in that way. Elsa found acceptance and love from the people around her and her kingdom who were fearful of magic. The sequel turns it back on that and goes, well she's where she belongs.
I agree. Which is also why I find the whole "coming out" part of it confusing, is that projection or really the writers' intent? Because in the context of the first movie, her powers were out of control and actively harming people, and letting go of all that anxiety and letting people in alleviated that. In this one she's called to right a wrong that was done up north, which seems pretty straightforward to me. Like she finds acceptance and a place to belong up north, but didn't she already have that, she was just bored/had another calling?

Even when all the elements were ushering everyone out of Arrendale nobody blamed her at all (though the people of Arrendale are really odd, twice now they just let both members of their ruling family go on dangerous missions leaving no heir behind).

I also didn't really understand the point of the revelation that the ship had gone North and that was where they were heading all along. Am I forgetting something or did that not factor into anything at all (besides having a cool water scene in the ship)? Unless that's setting it up for part 3 or something.
 

Dyle

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,443
Wisconsin
I also didn't really understand the point of the revelation that the ship had gone North and that was where they were heading all along. Am I forgetting something or did that not factor into anything at all (besides having a cool water scene in the ship)? Unless that's setting it up for part 3 or something.
They needed a way to bring up Ahtohollan again after they only barely mentioned it in the bedtime story lore dump and to give the parents some kind of "redeeming the sins of the father" redemption arc. It doesn't really make sense why no one would have known where they were going or explain how the ship ended up on this random desert tundra far away from the ocean
 
OP
OP
BDS

BDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,869
I also didn't really understand the point of the revelation that the ship had gone North and that was where they were heading all along. Am I forgetting something or did that not factor into anything at all (besides having a cool water scene in the ship)? Unless that's setting it up for part 3 or something.
The reveal was that their parents died trying to find answers about Elsa's powers, making her feel guilty for their deaths and leading her to push Anna and Olaf away.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
7,981
The reveal was that their parents died trying to find answers about Elsa's powers, making her feel guilty for their deaths and leading her to push Anna and Olaf away.
That was absolutely the right move (they couldn't all ride the horse anyway, even if they could they would've been trapped, and Anna went to the exact right place she needed to be) but again that's all plot contrivances to separate the cast.

Though like someone else said, if Elsa could pull the memory of her mom and dad meeting, she should have been able to pull the memory of the chief and the king without having to go all the way up to the river.
 

moronica

Member
Oct 28, 2017
42
That was absolutely the right move (they couldn't all ride the horse anyway, even if they could they would've been trapped, and Anna went to the exact right place she needed to be) but again that's all plot contrivances to separate the cast.

Though like someone else said, if Elsa could pull the memory of her mom and dad meeting, she should have been able to pull the memory of the chief and the king without having to go all the way up to the river.
To be quite honest, if you wanted to chase plot holes it's a losing fight - there are always unfillable gaps that can't be explained. I'm perfectly satisfied that in the heat of the moment she didn't think of pulling memories from the dam, and it's rather reasonable to think that she in turn would also be driven by the desire to find out the truth of her powers.

For my part I think the weakest part of the plot is the 'mysterious calling' that kicks off the story - it seems like an indulgence on Elsa's part that doesn't quite jive into the whole 'saving Arendelle' saga as well as it should. I think the story would hang together much better if it were tied into the disappearance of the parents somehow, which would give a much stronger motivation than mere curiosity for Elsa and doesn't make her seem quite as irresponsible. That said, I think the writers wrote the storyline around 'Into the Unknown' and the plot suffers somewhat for it.
 

ProfessorLobo

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,151
I agree. Which is also why I find the whole "coming out" part of it confusing, is that projection or really the writers' intent? Because in the context of the first movie, her powers were out of control and actively harming people, and letting go of all that anxiety and letting people in alleviated that. In this one she's called to right a wrong that was done up north, which seems pretty straightforward to me. Like she finds acceptance and a place to belong up north, but didn't she already have that, she was just bored/had another calling?

Even when all the elements were ushering everyone out of Arrendale nobody blamed her at all (though the people of Arrendale are really odd, twice now they just let both members of their ruling family go on dangerous missions leaving no heir behind).

I also didn't really understand the point of the revelation that the ship had gone North and that was where they were heading all along. Am I forgetting something or did that not factor into anything at all (besides having a cool water scene in the ship)? Unless that's setting it up for part 3 or something.
Frozen 3 : Elsa, finding no satisfaction in being a 5th element and riding water horses, realizes that family is more important than anything and must take her rightful place as queen of Arrendale.
 

Z-Beat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,993
Don't mind me folks, I'm just here for your daily reminder that "Show Yourself" is a masterpiece.

Lyrically: 10/10
Vocally: 10/10
Visually: 10/10



I've said it before and I'm going to say it again, this song is Disney's magnum opus. It's one of cinemas greatest movie scenes and the single best song Disney has ever produced.

It's legitimately the GOAT Disney song.

Yes. THE. GREATEST. OF. ALL. TIME!!!
Show Yourself was the 2nd best song behind Kristoff's
 

Frodo

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
974
To be quite honest, if you wanted to chase plot holes it's a losing fight - there are always unfillable gaps that can't be explained. I'm perfectly satisfied that in the heat of the moment she didn't think of pulling memories from the dam, and it's rather reasonable to think that she in turn would also be driven by the desire to find out the truth of her powers.

For my part I think the weakest part of the plot is the 'mysterious calling' that kicks off the story - it seems like an indulgence on Elsa's part that doesn't quite jive into the whole 'saving Arendelle' saga as well as it should. I think the story would hang together much better if it were tied into the disappearance of the parents somehow, which would give a much stronger motivation than mere curiosity for Elsa and doesn't make her seem quite as irresponsible. That said, I think the writers wrote the storyline around 'Into the Unknown' and the plot suffers somewhat for it.
The writers had a somewhat different version of the story where Arendelle actually gets destroyed. Characters were actually developed, and Anna had a purpose, a vision, and growth. But Disney needs to sell toys. This probably went thorough so many cuts and rewrites that it is amazing that the end product is still so entertaining the way it is, whilst still making a little bit of sense.
 

WoahW

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,416
Ok I’ll admit it the songs were great as shit and I had my mind blown that Kristoff is voiced by the guy who plays Holden on mindhunters
 

SapphiCine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,523
Just got back from seeing it at the theater with my gf, what a mess of a film. I didn't think this would happen, but I totally understand Anna/Elsa shippers. My gf and I are in agreement, sisters don't act like that. Disney really wrote themselves into a corner by being cowards and not giving Elsa a girlfriend.
 

moronica

Member
Oct 28, 2017
42
The writers had a somewhat different version of the story where Arendelle actually gets destroyed. Characters were actually developed, and Anna had a purpose, a vision, and growth. But Disney needs to sell toys. This probably went thorough so many cuts and rewrites that it is amazing that the end product is still so entertaining the way it is, whilst still making a little bit of sense.
Probably, it wouldn't be the first movie that got neutered thanks to executive meddling. Anyway what matters was that it hit the emotional high points effectively.


Sums up my thoughts on the film
I actually thought her envisioned direction of the movie was entirely wrong. The whole thing about the original Frozen was that it subverted the usual Princess movie emphasis on romantic bonds, instead opting to play up on the familial bond between the sisters. The natural direction of the sequel should have been to explore the bonds with their parents - one of my main takeaways was that Anna was cheated, she only got to hear things thirdhand at best, while Elsa got filled in on backstory at Ahtohallen and did that whole call-and-response with Iduna.

The spirits should have left as an ambiguous meta-enemy in the film, which would then be a (wo)man versus nature conflict.
 

Arex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,855
Singapore
Just got back from seeing it at the theater with my gf, what a mess of a film. I didn't think this would happen, but I totally understand Anna/Elsa shippers. My gf and I are in agreement, sisters don't act like that. Disney really wrote themselves into a corner by being cowards and not giving Elsa a girlfriend.
Ew fuck no they're sisters. They act like close sisters.

I like Frozen 2 but I feel the plot was a little bit more by the book compared to the first one. Also kinda feel bad that Anna didn't get to see her mother again while Elsa did all her magical destined journey lol. But overall it's still a good sequel.

Song wise Into the unknown stuck with me much more than Show yourself. I think show yourself is helped a bit in the movie by the visuals.
 

Z-Beat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,993
I feel like you're all sandbagging the amazing spectacle that was Kristoff's power ballad. It was perfect. The piano, the sick guitar riffs, effects, the backup vocals, everything.

That was absolutely the right move (they couldn't all ride the horse anyway, even if they could they would've been trapped, and Anna went to the exact right place she needed to be) but again that's all plot contrivances to separate the cast.

Though like someone else said, if Elsa could pull the memory of her mom and dad meeting, she should have been able to pull the memory of the chief and the king without having to go all the way up to the river.
She didn't know what she was looking for. That would've required her to run all over the damn forest freezing shit to find the appropriate memory water. The river/glacier was a nexus of all the memory water. It's also clear that the memories contained within that glacier are a lot more solid and lengthy than the slivers of time that she pulled out of the forest and the ship. As for Anna being exactly where she needed to be, she really wasn't: Elsa shot that magic message before she died and it found its way to Anna, it didn't head straight for that cave at random. They technically could've followed her if Elsa attached a rope from the ice death canoe to the horse. The primary issue with her getting there was that the water horse hated visitors and made the seas difficult to traverse. They go calm after she tames it.
 
Last edited: