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It's interesting to me that this keeps raring its head. I'm not really leaning towards it being likely, but I'll just bring up again that SciresM is very insistent that current game code is at a low enough level to only run on the current GPU.
It's a claim that's always struck me as odd with current compatibility layers, which he should no doubt be aware of. But I've never asked him further about it as I don't really have a strong enough technical understanding to ask the right questions.
But if that line of thought needs another hole poked in it, wouldn't including the entire SOC just be too large? If the thought is a die shrink, isn't that impossible without TSMC, who they can't rely on for a new product right now? If the thought was to include both GPUs in the new SOC, wouldn't that be impossible without violating TSMC IP?
I'm in agreement here but I do want to point out it's something they were seemingly planning at one point. That ship sailed when they announced it as quietly as possible short of not even marking the boxes though.
Which is fitting for them. The company that makes things as out there as LABO is going to care about what's going on in their chips.
Basically the raster engines and up to 4SM? Or is he referring to just the raster engines?
Would it? Idk. Pascal was split between Samsung and TSMC, so if they could wrangle something compatible out of that I don't think it would be involving TSMC IP.
a GPC is a bundle of SMs and other parts. gaming Ampere has 12 SMs per GPC
Lovelace could change up the SM per GPC, or it could be a more custom design for lower power devices like Orin (like 6 SM instead). we won't know until more details on Lovelace come out
Lovelace could change up the SM per GPC, or it could be a more custom design for lower power devices like Orin (like 6 SM instead). we won't know until more details on Lovelace come out
Yeah, that ship sailed back in 2019 when the Mariko Switches didn't even get a new name.
So I think this belief comes from the user mode portion of the Nvidia drivers supposedly being packaged with each game. The reverse scenario from this (newer user with older kernel) is definitely an issue (as anyone who has used Nvidia's proprietary drivers on Linux can attest), but I've yet to see any indication that older user with newer kernel is actually a problem.
GPC's are graphics processing cluster. They're the high level cluster which contains everything: ROPs, SM, TPC. In the Ampere architecture, a single GPC has six TPC which in turn have 2 SM per TPC.
Here's Ampere whitepaper
Here's Ampere whitepaper
a GPC is a bundle of SMs. gaming Ampere has 12 SMs per GPC
Lovelace could change up the SM per GPC, or it could be a more custom design for lower power devices like Orin (like 6 SM instead). we won't know until more details on Lovelace come out
The GA100 (their huge AI chip) had 16SMs per GPC so it might be closer to that.
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That tweet changes little, but his wording seems to intentionally put some distance between the chip he's talking about and Nintendo. I think he realized he made the first tweet without being as sure as he usually is.
This is the reason I'm glad I discovered this Restera thread with all the constructive conversations, tech-savvy people, and plausible theories. The only thing I saw on Reddit were memes, upvotes and karmas regining over people who actually tried sparking conversations and take facts into account. Also, r/NintendoSwitch might be the subreddit with the most unfriendliest mods ever -- anything worthwhile outside of fanart, simple Switch questions/stories, and official Nintendo trailers gets downvoted, flagged and removed :(
He's raised it before, I expect he's seen things that point to that. But he claims he's just talking about Orin, which he might be, the article in the link he is replying to talks about Orin.
while it doesn't rule out hardware, not sure if I would expect much there. especially if Lovelace is intended to succeed Ampere. it's way too soon to start talking about it
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I mean there's a possibility that the GPU in Orin is only Ampere by name, similar to how the GPU in the Tegra X1+ is only Maxwell by name.
That's not for the pro, that's for automotive orin. 2048 cores is a big-ass chip
Scires literally said that Switch games would need to be recompiled in order to run in the new GPU.
Humm, no? We don't even know what Lovelace is. But Orin S is the custom Tegra solution being speculated as the SoC of Switch PRO. And if Kopite is to be believed, he says there's a possibility of Lovelace being present in Orin S. Nothing is ruled out.
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To play devil's advocate, the GPU in Orin could be Ampere only in name, similar to how the GPU in the Tegra X1+ is only Maxwell in name.
I don't think it makes much of a difference since we know nothing concrete of Lovelace other than it
(rumored) being to Ampere what Pascal is to Maxwell, a die shrunk would probably be enough to make it a true Lovelace.
Nintendo & Nvidia are using technology best equipped to achieve the goal of the hardware being designed. One of those goals is bringing DLSS to the device.
This week you got a report from Bloomberg backing the 4K via DLSS. Let's not shift to becoming too invested in wondering what the exact architecture is or other specifics. You won't be getting answers anytime soon.
This week you got a report from Bloomberg backing the 4K via DLSS. Let's not shift to becoming too invested in wondering what the exact architecture is or other specifics. You won't be getting answers anytime soon.
The fact that you took the time to post something like this in response to people's excitement says a lot about you.
Honestly, posts like this are part of the reason why I hope this thing is a beast. The other is to finally play Nintendo games at high fidelity.
You really wanna mock folks for that?
I agree with this, it would mostly be fruitless to get hung up on what the exact arch is at the moment.
No, I want this to be powerful, I want Nintendo to be aggressive in their tech business plan like they were in their hayday. Just because I'm saying you all got hyped up for underwhelming information doesn't mean I'm attacking anyone here, calm down dude. Where did I say that I wanted this to fail?
I just want to know more information about this new revision, I hate people saying one thing and then leading up with something completely different. These threads seemed to pull 180's out of nowhere.
Same. Should be a decent upgrade as corroborated several folks now.
Yeah, sort of in a similar place here.
It will be some variant of Lovelace no matter what IMHO.
And due to that, it would likely be stronger than Ampere.
It just depends on how close to the Desktop Lovelace that is reportedly 71% or so stronger than Ampere.
Honestly with the news these past few days, I am more confident with this general config.
- 6 or 8 Core A78/A78C CPU
- 8 GB LPDDR5
- GPU Configuration Equivalent to 6SMs of Desktop Ampere
- Meaning, whatever number of these "Almost Lovelace" or just Lovelace SMs equals or surpasses 6SMs of Ampere.
- This is primarily in order to allow
- 720p to 4k Ultra Performance DLSS to be working properly at 60fps
- Lock most, if not all unoptimized/unpatched games to their resolution and framerate caps (Most often 1080p 30fps)
- Future games to easily target either 720p to 4k with more graphical effects or 60fps, or 1080p.
- The key thing that people don't seemingly think of when considering 4SMs of normal Ampere is that
- it wouldn't be able to use Ultra Performance DLSS due to not having enough Tensor Cores
- It wouldn't be able to lock most Switch games to 1080p in order to use 1080p to 4k Performance DLSS.
- UFS 3.1 or NVME SSD Storage
- The pricing actually isn't that much higher despite what people may think, also Nintendo likes getting rid of notable bottlenecks in revisions like these, the I/O is one of them in the OG Switch.
- 720p OLED Screen
If Nintendo wants Nvidia to make compatibility happen, they'll make it happen. Worst case scenario, the GPU might need some modifications to be binary compatible, but that's not exactly uncommon for console GPUs.
Yes. It's a meaningful upgrade. It has an exciting new feature with DLSS. It'll be good for Nintendo and consumers. Speculate how cool BotW2 can look with DLSS at 4K.
Obsessing over the potential architecture and clocks will only raise hype and then reality will bring them down and people will start to declare doom.
This will definitely prove to not be the case in practice, but this statement is also just wrong in the abstract, because what is "the new GPU?" Nobody actually knows what the internals of a Switch revision or successor will be well enough to make this claim.
And it seems to me this isn't the first time where Scires is extrapolating from the things he does actually know a lot about, to make conclusions about spaces he doesn't actually know much about. His assertions about what Aula meant for a new Switch are already contradicted by most of the reporting on the revision. Doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to data mining and reverse engineering Switch firmware, but again, the conclusions are not following.
Edit: Also, static recompilation and/or repackaging of certain parts of an application aren't the same thing as recompiling from source, and if something like that is necessary for a future Switch (not the revision), Nintendo could provide a near-automatic process to do it so publishers don't have to invest any of their own effort.
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It sounds like Lovelace will be an extension of Ampere, so they probably won't be changing to much on the design front.a GPC is a bundle of SMs and other parts. gaming Ampere has 12 SMs per GPC
Lovelace could change up the SM per GPC, or it could be a more custom design for lower power devices like Orin (like 6 SM instead). we won't know until more details on Lovelace come out
(Lovelace) on 5nm is more than enough to allow the architecture to shine over the 8nm Ampere cards...
Ampere GA102 has 7 GPC for the entire chip and Lovelace AD102 is rumored to have 12.
So it sounds like he is simply stating the entire Orin chip could be based on 1 Lovelace GPC and other variations such as Orin S or future Switch could be cut down from the full chip.
NVIDIA AD102 (Lovelace) GPU rumored to offer up to 18432 CUDA cores - VideoCardz.com
New information on the NVIDIA AD102 graphics processor surfaces. NVIDIA Lovelace AD102 GPU A week ago we reported that NVIDIA will introduce a new graphics architecture named after Ada Lovelace. The series is expected to be NVIDIA’s next gaming architecture that could arrive even before Hopper...
videocardz.com
Kopite7kimi has stated since before these current leaks started, that the new Tegra Orin would be based on Lovelace.
They are definitely a credible Nvidia leaker, so the only thing we don't know is exactly what form of this chip Nintendo will utilize going forward.
I see people saying but it's so new and not even out yet, but neither was PS5 or Series X SoC's in comparison to AMD's desktop cards, but these things can be developed in tandem. Nintendo's new president Furukawa said this in the beginning of March and I think it's a good take of why they might be making the moves they are...
"No matter the hits, in the entertainment business people someday do lose interest. Up until now, we have repeatedly had the experience of our business taking a nosedive," Furukawa said.
"Because of this, I myself as well as those within the company do not at all think the current state of affairs will keep going and going. Every year is a do or die situation."
"You must give new customers fresh surprises, and our existence can slip into obscurity at any time. I always have this kind of sense of crisis."
Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7812...year-is-do-or-die-situation-for-us/index.html
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The only Lovelace GPUs I can see being fabricated using a 5 nm process node (most likely Samsung's 5LPE process node) is the consumer Lovelace GPUs that's expected to be released at around 2022, assuming Nvidia planning on releasing consumer GPUs on a 2 year cadence.
Orin's likely to be fabricated using Samsung's 8N+ process node. But Samsung's 7LPP or 6LPP process can't be completely discounted, although not as likely as Samsung's 8N+ process node. And any of TSMC's advanced process nodes (N7 to N6) is completely out of the question.
To be fair, doom is inevitable regardless =P
I wonder what Metroid Prime would look like more so than BOTW2....
The new SoC should provide a boost to older games in the form of resolution and fps -- depending on how the game is coded.
It'll be a nice improvement.
