• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

sHitman

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
315
As with everything, if you want the masses to eat it then make it cheaper than regular meat. Being more eco friendly will get a minority who have more money to eat it to feel better about themselves, but actual mass market civilisation changing sales will require it to be cheaper than "real" meat. If it's using that much less water and land then it really should be a lot cheaper once the technology evolves.

I think you forget the fundamental difference between the products. Even if its more expensive, lets just assume there is a flat $5 difference between "real" and artificial meat. Before it was always questionable if the meat marked "free-range" or "organic" was really the better product. You have to pay more and esseantially could get the same product, just labled differently. But between real and artifical meat, there is a real difference. The one needs an animal to be killed and the other does not. This can be a major selling point. If marketed corretly, you could make this very clear. This never was possible before. If you have them side by side, the one the remains of a dead animal and the other one from a tube, I think the choice would be more difficult. Of cource we have to assume at this point that there are no health related issues that rise witch this new product.

If it works, it very well could change everything, just think how many people would have a hard time explaing to their kid why they chose the cheaper meat and had an animal killed when they could have the kill-free alternative. It's all in the marketing. I can see this commercial in my head right now. "But Mom, don't you love cows too? Why did you chose to have it killed?"
 

OniLinkPlus

Self-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
600
This is truly exciting. I don't find the act of eating meat from animals to be the evil that many vegans see it as, but I am horrified by the treatment of the animals we eat during their life as well as the environmental impact of mass breeding. I have certain health issues which make abandoning meat impossible for me, so the option to switch to an objectively cruelty-free and environmentally-friendly source of meat is so good for me.

Anybody have a source on the price trends of artificial beef over time compared to "real" beef and maybe a current source on the price of artificial chicken?
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
I think you forget the fundamental difference between the products. Even if its more expensive, lets just assume there is a flat $5 difference between "real" and artificial meat. Before it was always questionable if the meat marked "free-range" or "organic" was really the better product. You have to pay more and esseantially could get the same product, just labled differently. But between real and artifical meat, there is a real difference. The one needs an animal to be killed and the other does not. This can be a major selling point. If marketed corretly, you could make this very clear. This never was possible before. If you have them side by side, the one the remains of a dead animal and the other one from a tube, I think the choice would be more difficult. Of cource we have to assume at this point that there are no health related issues that rise witch this new product.

If it works, it very well could change everything, just think how many people would have a hard time explaing to their kid why they chose the cheaper meat and had an animal killed when they could have the kill-free alternative. It's all in the marketing. I can see this commercial in my head right now. "But Mom, don't you love cows too? Why did you chose to have it killed?"

I think you're ignoring where our meat consumption goes. The majority of our meat comes from processed foods that we don't really have a choice in where it comes from. When companies know they will save money and not have any change in taste/flavor/texture, then it's already over.

Shit's all about margins. Sure, when lab grown becomes near competitive there will be a push and marketing will work, but that's not where the real change will come into place.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Food (heh) for thought. There will come a point in our life times where there are meat farms growing gigantic slabs of meat that have blood and nerves and fat and maybe even bones, but are not actually sentient in any measurable way.
 

Pimienta

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,837
I'm fully on board, but farmers and politicians are going to do everything in their power to discredit this type of meat. AKA lobbying and misguided "studies" about how it gives cancer etc.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,888
I am all for it.

I love meat but I never wanted to do anything with how it gets to your table.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
Food (heh) for thought. There will come a point in our life times where there are meat farms growing gigantic slabs of meat that have blood and nerves and fat and maybe even bones, but are not actually sentient in any measurable way.

tumblr_inline_o3u3ur4af01qhhkb8_500.gif
 

DBT85

Resident Thread Mechanic
Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,260
I think you forget the fundamental difference between the products. Even if its more expensive, lets just assume there is a flat $5 difference between "real" and artificial meat. Before it was always questionable if the meat marked "free-range" or "organic" was really the better product. You have to pay more and esseantially could get the same product, just labled differently. But between real and artifical meat, there is a real difference. The one needs an animal to be killed and the other does not. This can be a major selling point. If marketed corretly, you could make this very clear. This never was possible before. If you have them side by side, the one the remains of a dead animal and the other one from a tube, I think the choice would be more difficult. Of cource we have to assume at this point that there are no health related issues that rise witch this new product.

If it works, it very well could change everything, just think how many people would have a hard time explaing to their kid why they chose the cheaper meat and had an animal killed when they could have the kill-free alternative. It's all in the marketing. I can see this commercial in my head right now. "But Mom, don't you love cows too? Why did you chose to have it killed?"

I've not forgotten about it at all. I just do not think that the mass market will give a shit.

When I say mass market I mean everyone, not just people that shop at Whole Mortgage. I even mentioned that in my post. If its more expensive then there will be some who will buy it because it makes them feel better and they can afford to do it. But can Steve and Sheila with 3 kids and a mortgage who just need to eat? No, they are gonna buy some regular mince/chicken/burgers because it's cheap.

Those of us that eat meat long ago accepted that animals die to allow us to eat meat I don't think I ever said to my mum "but what about the poor animals" and we had pets. It's just what we do as a species. That isn't going to change just because someone makes a more expensive option that doesn't result in the death of an animal. Sure, I'd love to eat a nice burger or steak or sausage with the knowledge that nothing died to make it, but not at a premium for my regular shop. A once in a while treat maybe.

Price always drives everything. You want to stop people driving badly economic cars? Jack the fuel price up. Suddenly SUV sales tank and smaller economical cars boom, manufacturers are forced to change the cars to actually make them a little economical. Fuel prices tank and everyone goes back to SUVs.

Saying that you use 99% less water and 98% less and produce 99% less emissions is great. You'll get some customers from that alone even if your product costs more because some people just have spare money. Lots of people don't. Make it cheaper (which surely if you're using that much less land and water should be feasible in time) then the mass market will adopt it easily and comfortably.

Tesla makes fast attractive eco cars, they got a lot of buys from being either green, fast, attractive or a combination of those. Shockingly, they know that to get the masses to adopt it you need to get down to a price point that the masses can look at and go "fine, why buy a Camry or a Focus when I can buy one of those and save on the fuel and maintenance". They are already doing well in sales, imagine how big they could be when they get down to those kind of prices.

Lab meat if it really can be identical in flavour and texture to "real" meat will be fantastic for the world. I have no doubt. No compromises outside of "I need to know something lived to enjoy it" which I think is a tiny tiny minority of crazies.

Once its close to the same price as real meat, it'll be all I buy. All the time its 15+% more expensive I know what I'll be buying.
 

cgcg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
430
As a meat lovers, I can't wait until this becomes mainstream. We are all better off with this.
 

BLEEN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,876
So down. I'm a cheap bastard but when this becomes affordable, ohhh boy! I can already see people culturing their own meats at home very similarly to beer, wine, shrooms, weed, etc. Gonna be cool.
 

luqi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
80
Excited for this - I've being trying to be more conscious about my meat intake this year and holy fuck, we eat so much meat it's insane. Flexitarian seems like a good compromise so far, with this stuff I'd probably go all in
 

Deleted member 2834

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,620
I can see a hypothetical future, ~50 years from now, where some countries outlaw animal farming and heavily restrict imports of animal products that a whole area of tourism opens up where wealthy people go to countries where there are no such restrictions.

Much like today we have something similar happening with prostitution and drugs.

I doubt that animal farming will ever completely go away.
There is zero doubt in my mind that the current state of animal farming will be considered barbaric eventually, but I do believe you're being too optimistic with the 50 years. I doubt anybody in this thread is gonna live to see it.
 

Zippedpinhead

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,721
Make it cheap, taste 90% close, cook similar and available in (sausage, ground, steak, and light/dark variants) and I would switch to it.

It's all about the many variants and close enough to the taste. It is my biggest issue with near meats as it is, too expensive and the taste isn't there.

Since these are genetically meat, just get the cost down!
 

chuseph14

Member
Oct 26, 2017
456
I approach this as I approach any food. If it's good, I'll keep eating it. Not vegetarian, but I also eat vegetarian meals without complaint too. My only criteria is that food tastes good. If they could engineer actual shit to be safe and tasty to eat, serve it to me right now.
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,134
Maintain a significantly smaller, stable population as back up, just like we do with seeds. There will be agriculture/husbandry hobbyists as well. Farming will stop being a necessity and, like equestrianism, become a pasttime.
Leather and animal byproducts as well as animal husbandry will almost certainly be a thing. Leather cost will likely increase a lot though.
 

bry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,293
If this catches on it will be for the lower income people while those with some money will be able to eat regular meat and those with more money will still eat their organic meat lol

maybe i'm just bugging tho but it would probably lower the amount of animals slaughtered

i can see it changing the whole perception of meat in general
 

CassCade

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,037
If it tastes good then I am in, I love beef and I hate that it's one of the leading contributors to global warming.
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
It's not "meat" to me if an animal didn't die for it though. At that point, what is the point of it? It just doesn't... agree with me.

It's almost like people are using science to feel less bad about themselves. This should exist, but it should not be called or marketed as meat.

Yes yes, whole cellular level thing, I know...

I'm confused as to what bannable here? Eating animals is predation. The meat doesn't taste any different but it's acceptable to be ok with this. We've done it for thousands of years.

If it's lab-grown and tastes identical then cool. Otherwise no, I'll keep eating animals slaughtered in a slaughterhouse.
 

Raijinto

self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
10,091
Would this be considered halal any Muslims here who could educate me? Or is that still yet to be decided?
 

Ushay

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,347
Yet more processed foods in our diets, something I try and stay away from as much as possible.
Although I can definitely see the benefits of this technology, however I can see this being utilised only in the countries where it isn't needed instead of famine struck nations.

Would this be considered halal any Muslims here who could educate me? Or is that still yet to be decided?

Good question, but probably not. I'm guessing the process involved would need to be looked at ie it will probably require enzymes to construct the meat layers correct? The next question would where are those products come from.

It's an interesting question, but not really necessary as I doubt this will become mainstream for a long time (if ever).
 
Last edited:

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
Food (heh) for thought. There will come a point in our life times where there are meat farms growing gigantic slabs of meat that have blood and nerves and fat and maybe even bones, but are not actually sentient in any measurable way.

I'm all for it as long as it gets out of hand and becomes a cool Resident Evil setpiece.

I will fight The Meat.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,039
Do we know the long term health effects of this stuff?

This is not gonna be one of those things where 30 years later, we discover this stuff actually gives you super cancer or something.
 

Maffis

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,314
Yet more processed foods in our diets, something I try and stay away from as much as possible.
Although I can definitely see the benefits of this technology, however I can see this being utilised only in the countries where it isn't needed instead of famine struck nations.



Good question, but probably not. I'm guessing the process involved would need to be looked at ie it will probably require enzymes to construct the meat layers correct? The next question would where are those products come from.

It's an interesting question, but not really necessary as I doubt this will become mainstream for a long time (if ever).
Wut this is absolutely needed in countries that are not struck by famine. The whole point is to lower the climate impact and suffering of animals.
 

F34R

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,989
I want to see more info on how they are making these stem cells multiply dramatically. Is it done naturally? Are they injecting anything to sustain the growth, etc. It's hard to believe, for me, that it's all natural. Watched several videos, looked up a half dozen articles, and they are all lacking details. The video in the first post says "nutrient dense serum" without explaining what that includes.

It'll be a hard pass for me unless we get all the details. Anyone find anything to goes deeper into the "how"?
 

Amnixia

â–˛ Legend â–˛
The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
10,411
Vegans/vegetarians: Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!


Still wouldn't eat it though.

But a huge improvement for both animal welfare and the environment.

Now watch the animal agriculture industry be successful in their attempts to this not being allowed to be marketed as meat.

Shame politicians care more about kickbacks (or "campaign donations") then the survivability of future generations.
 

Amnixia

â–˛ Legend â–˛
The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
10,411
So what are we gonna do with all the cows if this catches on?

This will probably be pretty expensive at first, so the general shift to lab grown meat would go slowly.

There would be a gradual decline in slaughtered meat consumption, thus less animals being forcibly bred.

Once it becomes unattractive to keep breeding them because of low profits the problem basically solves itself (they don't breed this fast naturally).
 

y2dvd

Member
Nov 14, 2017
2,481
I want to see more info on how they are making these stem cells multiply dramatically. Is it done naturally? Are they injecting anything to sustain the growth, etc. It's hard to believe, for me, that it's all natural. Watched several videos, looked up a half dozen articles, and they are all lacking details. The video in the first post says "nutrient dense serum" without explaining what that includes.

It'll be a hard pass for me unless we get all the details. Anyone find anything to goes deeper into the "how"?

Natural is overrated. Lots of food kills you naturally and what we consume is already modified in some form or another. This has the potential to increase benefits more than anything.

https://foodandnutrition.org/march-...ial-benefits-challenges-cellular-agriculture/

Potential Impact on Health
Cultured meat can be engineered to have an impact on specific health and nutrition outcomes by altering the profile of essential amino acids and fat in addition to adding vitamins, minerals and bioactive compounds that match or exceed the amount in natural meat. For example, cultured meat could be grown to contain more protein and polyunsaturated fatty acids than traditional meat, as well as decreased or eliminated saturated fat, potentially reducing the risk of chronic diseases.
Because cultured meat production could be less expensive than traditional farming, and therefore more accessible, it could increase access to meat in developing countries. If so, cultured meat could reduce or alleviate some nutritional deficiencies in these populations and support the physical and mental development of children.

Controlled conditions used in growing cultured meat could improve food safety by minimizing animal-borne diseases and pathogens, such as Salmonella, Campylobacter and E. coli. In vitro meat also could reduce diseases associated with livestock farming that humans can contract, including avian and swine flus and bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or mad cow disease.

Scientists also hope that growing cultured meat could reduce the need for pesticides, fungicides, heavy metals, aflatoxins, melamine, anabolic agents and antibiotics used for some large-scale traditional meat production.
 

F34R

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,989
Natural is overrated. Lots of food kills you naturally and what we consume is already modified in some form or another. This has the potential to increase benefits more than anything.

https://foodandnutrition.org/march-...ial-benefits-challenges-cellular-agriculture/
Yeah, I've already read that. "Potential". I still want specific details. What are they adding, how will it affect consumers, etc. I don't buy meat from a retail store because we don't know how it's been obtained, processed, etc. I'm not against this lab grown meat just because it's lab grown meat. I'l be against it the same way I'm against going to Wal Mart, or other grocery stores, and buying meat. It's a valid concern for me and my family. I'm not blindly going all in on this.
 

y2dvd

Member
Nov 14, 2017
2,481
Yeah, I've already read that. "Potential". I still want specific details. What are they adding, how will it affect consumers, etc. I don't buy meat from a retail store because we don't know how it's been obtained, processed, etc. I'm not against this lab grown meat just because it's lab grown meat. I'l be against it the same way I'm against going to Wal Mart, or other grocery stores, and buying meat. It's a valid concern for me and my family. I'm not blindly going all in on this.

That's completely fair and I'm sure will be all of our concerns. I imagine it's such an uphill battle to get this to and running that they will want to be as transparent as possible.

Not sure what specific details you still require but we know at the very least it's great strides at reducing environmental impact.
 

Iceman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
605
Alhambra, CA
There's one snag here. It's likely the labs are using fetal bovine serum to grow the meat cultures. FBS is the source of growth factors (and many other components, e.g. insulin) that all biology labs use around the world to grow cells. FBS is harvested from the dead fetuses of slaughtered dairy cows. How do they address this inconsistency? Do they have a tailored, serum-free growth medium that can be produced at scale?
 

skyappl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
280
I love this. We can use our brains. We don't need to kill other animals that can feel pain to live.
 

LProtagonist

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
7,576
I think it's fascinating. I've done the vegetarian thing before and would switch back to eating mostly vegetarian and having lab grown meat once and a while if the prices turn out to be somewhat reasonable.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,428
There's one snag here. It's likely the labs are using fetal bovine serum to grow the meat cultures. FBS is the source of growth factors (and many other components, e.g. insulin) that all biology labs use around the world to grow cells. FBS is harvested from the dead fetuses of slaughtered dairy cows. How do they address this inconsistency? Do they have a tailored, serum-free growth medium that can be produced at scale?
Don't make perfect the enemy of good pls.
 

ArnoldJRimmer

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
1,322
It would be cool if they can also do stuff like lower bad cholesterol in the meat too. I imagine it might be possible to be more consistent in quality... every steak could be restaurant grade!