Gal Gadot's views on Israel & Palestine - Your thoughts?

[PCPace]

I have very pro-palestenian leanings though not a huge fan they governing body, but I'm not going to question the political activism of anyone from either Israel or Palestine unless they are in a position of power where they have the ability to affect the situation. So I will criticize Netanyahu, his cabinet, or some members of Hezbollah all day but I'm not going to get upset at anyone, especially someone actually from either nation, about their opinion.

I love Gal Gadot as an actress and as someone fighting for women's rights. I suspect she and I would disagree a lot on the plight of the Palestinian people based on some things she has said, but I would never criticize her for that.

 

[Cyrion]

I like how everyone doesn't even deny the obvious, world-wise bias against Israel and just goes on with deflections about "This is not the thread for this".

Ethnostates are not cool. There's no place in the modern world for them, in my opinion.

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Like Kirblar said. Ethnostates are the norm. Most of Europe and half of the US are currently in a racist craze to keep it that way and kick brown people out. Don't even talk about Russia and far east countries. Yet you single out Israel whose population is actually around 20% Muslims for many decades now, and who by the way overwhelmingly also support Israel.

You tell one of the most persecuted, oppressed and downright murdered minority of the world that they don't have a right to a state where they are in the majority. Nothing suspicious with this at all.

 

[Lafiel]

We do not. Israel gets singled out. every.single.time. Why is that? Because Jews live there in majority. There is no other logical explanations, and people believing otherwise are deluding themselves and willingly side with neo nazis and radical islamists. There are dozens over dozens of states whoa re way worse, but you won't find anyone on Era giving two shits about some African country doing horrible things.

In this very thread horrible antisemitic lies were uttered. Israel's right of existence is denied. Terrorism is justified.That is NEO NAZI STUFF. Things you would go to prison for in Germany. And rightly so.

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Meanwhile some of the greatest supporters for the Israel state is actually the growing far-right in Europe https://theintercept.com/2016/11/30...s-are-dangerously-anti-muslim-and-pro-israel/.

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[Muffin]

Please go to Germany and tell everyone about your stance. Then defend it in a court. Please do.

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German here, you're being ridiculous. Criticizing Israel for the crimes it's committing is not anti-semitism, and certainly not illegal in Germany. Building illegal settlements, reciprocating violence a hundred-fold and bulldozing schools are all things that are worth criticizing and you don't get to dismiss that as anti-semitism. I call out ethnic cleansing/genocide when I see it (wonder where I learned that), and just because this is on a smaller scale and a more slow, incremental form, that doesn't make it not exactly that.

That I criticize that doesn't mean that I don't want Israel to exist, and criticism of a state is surely not the same as criticizing an ethnic group.

 

[excelsiorlef]

We do not. Israel gets singled out. every.single.time. Why is that? Because Jews live there in majority. There is no other logical explanations, and people believing otherwise are deluding themselves and willingly side with neo nazis and radical islamists. There are dozens over dozens of states whoa re way worse, but you won't find anyone on Era giving two shits about some African country doing horrible things.

In this very thread horrible antisemitic lies were uttered. Israel's right of existence is denied. Terrorism is justified.That is NEO NAZI STUFF. Things you would go to prison for in Germany. And rightly so.

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By all means quote the neo nazis in this thread please...

 

[Cyrion]

Meanwhile some of the greatest supporters for the Israel state is actually the growing far-right in Europe https://theintercept.com/2016/11/30...s-are-dangerously-anti-muslim-and-pro-israel/.

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Stop your disingenuous bullshit right now. Most of the far right hates Jews. They only feign support for Israel because it gets constantly attacked by radical Muslims. Not surprising though that you link to garbage like the Intercept to proof your point.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

How does that make is okay? There are PoC that are racist against other PoC, and she has horrible views about her ethnic cousins.

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Alternatively, she has horrible views about her ethnic cousin's government.

I've asked for it before and I'll ask for it again, where is the evidence she hates Palestians wholesale? Because all that FB post does is identify an enemy (Hamas) and a victim (Palestinian civilians). If anything, that kind of suggests she cares about them. And once again, I will retract this statement if there's evidence of her hatred.

 

[Prophaniti]

Edit: Stupid post was stupid

 

[Cocaloch]

I'm allowed to criticize one specific thing only if I explicitly lay out my criticisms on everything in threads made by me on this message board?

Okay.

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I don't think what the Israeli state is doing is okay.

Per Cyrion's instructions I must now list all the things I'm not okay with:

English later British occupation of Ireland. English later British oppression of the Irish people. British attempts to destroy the Irish language. IRA violent actions in the North. IRA violent actions in Britain. English later British attempts to destroy Welsh. British destruction of Highland Scottish culture after 1745. British in great part successful attempts to destroy Scottish Gaelic. British actions in depriving and forcing colonial dependence amongst the Native people of North America. British lack of oversight of the EIC allowing for massive famines in India. The opium wars. British oppression of Indians after direct rule. British imperialism in Africa. British involvement in the slave trade. British colonial action in Afghanistan and Iraq, especially involving bombing for civil reasons. Peterloo. Laws against homosexuality. Laws against the Irish in Britain. Laws against combinations. Laws against abortion in Northern Ireland. Allowing the Irish Famine to happen. British support for the UDF. British exit strategies in India. British exit strategies in South Africa. British support for American wars in the 21st century.........

Alright now for the rest of the world.

I've asked for it before and I'll ask for it again, where is the evidence she hates Palestians wholesale? Because all that FB post does is identify an enemy (Hamas) and a victim (Palestinian civilians). If anything, that kind of suggests she cares about them. And once again, I will retract this statement if there's evidence of her hatred.

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Again it's the context that matters. That was posted during a conflict where more than two thirds of the casualties from the IDF were Palestinians civilians. Regardless of if she hates them, she certainly does care for them enough to support not killing them in large numbers.

 

[excelsiorlef]

.

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I'm sorry that rises to Neo Nazism?

 

[astro]

I like how everyone doesn't even deny the obvious, world-wise bias against Israel and just goes on with deflections about "This is not the thread for this".

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It's not the thread for this. Make a thread for that and we'll discuss it there.

If you really wanted to do that you'd make the thread, but it seems you just want to disrupt this one with your whataboutisms.

EDIT: if you currently don't have permissions I'll gladly make it for you if you PM me the post you'd like to make.

 

[Prophaniti]

I'm sorry that rises to Neo Nazism?

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The scum part seems awfully racist.

 

[Cocaloch]

The scum part seems awfully racist.

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Why?

 

[A Syrian Communist]

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I'm Syrian and I have personally met people who have been forced out of their homes or murdered by the IDF. Guess that makes me a Neo-Nazi.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The scum part seems awfully racist.

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What?

 

[Richter1887]

Alternatively, she has horrible views about her ethnic cousin's government.

I've asked for it before and I'll ask for it again, where is the evidence she hates Palestians wholesale? Because all that FB post does is identify an enemy (Hamas) and a victim (Palestinian civilians). If anything, that kind of suggests she cares about them. And once again, I will retract this statement if there's evidence of her hatred.

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There is this:

She agreed to host an event run by the Jewish National Fund this year, an organisation who's purpose is to buy up Palestinian Land and Homes in the West Bank and East Jerusalem and replace the inhabitants with Jewish residents. They are literally an ethnic cleansing org.

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[Deleted member 10737]

The scum part seems awfully racist.

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jewish people can't be called scum? not saying she is, just asking

 

[Deleted member 2945]

Feel bad for Prophaniti

 

[Cocaloch]

Stop your disingenuous bullshit right now. Most of the far right hates Jews. They only feign support for Israel because it gets constantly attacked by radical Muslims. Not surprising though that you link to garbage like the Intercept to proof your point.

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The far right in America supports the Israeli state more than anyone else due to a combination of millenarianism and dislike for Muslims. Also it's the far right that has the most invested in the idea of ethno-states everywhere.

 

[Lafiel]

Stop your disingenuous bullshit right now. Most of the far right hates Jews. They only feign support for Israel because it gets constantly attacked by radical Muslims. Not surprising though that you link to garbage like the Intercept to proof your point.

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Interestingly enough I was at a pro-palestine virgil several months ago in Australia and I saw the dynamic with my own eyes - there was a group of counter-protesters with zionists rallying alongside with far-right australian nationalists whom you are right absolutely hate jews but they are perfectly fine with supporting the idea of a separatist etho-state whose existence depends on the oppression of Palestinians.

 

[Cocaloch]

I suspect she and I would disagree a lot on the plight of the Palestinian people based on some things she has said, but I would never criticize her for that.

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Why not? Like most Irish people have no problem criticizing the IRA. Why does the IDF get a pass?

 

[Deleted member 4346]

Like Kirblar said. Ethnostates are the norm. Most of Europe and half of the US are currently in a racist craze to keep it that way and kick brown people out.

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And that's not acceptable.

Don't even talk about Russia and far east countries.

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Nor is this.

Yet you single out Israel whose population is actually around 20% Muslims for many decades now, and who by the way overwhelmingly also support Israel.

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I'm not singling out Israel. This topic is about actress Gal Gadot's position on the Israel/Palestine conflict. It is the appropriate place for this discussion.

If you'd like to discuss the growing nationalism in other Western countries or Russia/the Far East, post a thread and I'll gladly contribute there as well.

Meanwhile some of the greatest supporters for the Israel state is actually the growing far-right in Europe https://theintercept.com/2016/11/30...s-are-dangerously-anti-muslim-and-pro-israel/.

.

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Yup! It's that way in the US as well. Richard Spencer, for instance, supports Zionism wholly. And, as I pointed out previously, Zionist Christians are often deeply antisemitic; their support of Israel is a matter of convenience based on their dogmatic beliefs than out of love and respect for the Jewish people.

 

[Cocaloch]

Like Kirblar said. Ethnostates are the norm. Most of Europe and half of the US are currently in a racist craze to keep it that way and kick brown people out. Don't even talk about Russia and far east countries. Yet you single out Israel whose population is actually around 20% Muslims for many decades now, and who by the way overwhelmingly also support Israel.

You tell one of the most persecuted, oppressed and downright murdered minority of the world that they don't have a right to a state where they are in the majority. Nothing suspicious with this at all.

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Just to be clear, you're justifying ethno-states because of the current far right resurgence? The thing that's almost universally condemned by all to the left of the far right.

And I disagree with his analysis anyway, because I don't think a state being majority one ethnic group makes it an ethno-state. That's based on a conception of what the state is and should be doing, coupled with actually in place policy.

 

[cwmartin]

"minority of the world that they don't have a right to a state where they are in the majority"

Has humanity decided that this is a right? I'm honestly not sure.

 

[Cocaloch]

"minority of the world that they don't have a right to a state where they are in the majority"

Has humanity decided that this is a right? I'm honestly not sure.

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I'm sure some people think that, but in practice it doesn't seem to be a particularly widely held view.

 

[A Syrian Communist]

"minority of the world that they don't have a right to a state where they are in the majority"

Has humanity decided that this is a right? I'm honestly not sure.

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Yeah this is news to me as well, especially when that right comes at the expense of others.

 

[EMT0]

"minority of the world that they don't have a right to a state where they are in the majority"

Has humanity decided that this is a right? I'm honestly not sure.

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If it is, somebody dial up my Quechuas, we're gonna be carving out something in Cuzco any year now

 

[Cocaloch]

I think what's most annoying about that poster at the moment is that they feel free to just casually fold Jewish people into Israel as if the two are the same thing.

 

[Deleted member 32679]

So I will criticize Netanyahu, his cabinet, or some members of Hezbollah all day but I'm not going to get upset at anyone, especially someone actually from either nation, about their opinion.

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That pretty much sums up my stance on this.

 

[Palas]

"minority of the world that they don't have a right to a state where they are in the majority"

Has humanity decided that this is a right? I'm honestly not sure.

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Actually, yes. The UN Charter states that all people have the collective right of self-determination, that is, the legitimacy to establish a nation for themselves and decide how it will be ruled. It's a cardinal principle of modern international law and democracy. Jewish people, as we know, have been subject to diaspora, so they have never been in one place and, thus, have never been able to claim a nation for themselves. Their claim towards a Jewish state is perfectly valid under international law.

EDIT: it doesn't mean "people" in an ethnic sense though and it doesn't necessarily mean the establishment of new states. It simply means everyone has the right to have a homeland according to what their cultural, ethnic and civic bonds attribute to what a homeland means. It is vague like that, but then again international law is vague by essence and definition.

 

[Mr_Black]

I think a great documentary about Israel was the movie The Gatekeepers. Lot's of interviews with Sinbet (sp). The Israeli intelligence force. Talks about the kind of explosive devices they would use, the kind of operations that they would effectuate.

However, a lot of the now retired intelligence officials from Israel. They all seem to share a unanimous conclusion that Israel and its occupation, is just simply untenable, and just a perpetuating cycle of violence.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Following the "Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel on 14 May 1948" - so this is just another example of colonialism? The state of Israel is just a compound inside a hostile country that isn't theirs to begin with?

Is there a difference between say, colonial French occupation of Vietnam? and what is going in, in Israel? I don't put any truck into divine rights, or "hey back then thousands of years ago, some Jewish people did live here, so ergo this land is ours now".

Is this just a really really long Vietnam being played out? or am I reading this situation incorrectly? Like when we remove all the religious pretense and the rest of it.

 

[Cocaloch]

Actually, yes. The UN Charter states that all people have the collective right of self-determination, that is, the legitimacy to establish a nation for themselves and decide how it will be ruled. It's a cardinal principle of modern international law and democracy. Jewish people, as we know, have been subject to diaspora, so they have never been in one place and, thus, have never been able to claim a nation for themselves. Their claim towards a Jewish state is perfectly valid under international law.

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You're extrapolating the right to self-determination to mean something it doesn't necessarily have to mean. Mostly because it's unclear, in that classic early 20th century uncritical way, what the terms, especially people, being used actually mean in practice. Especially because natural law had fallen so far behind philosophically by that point.

 

[PCPace]

Why not? Like most Irish people have no problem criticizing the IRA. Why does the IDF get a pass?

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As far as I know IDF service is compulsory.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

You are literally talking about the US from the past seven decades. Yet I don't see threads by you decrying this. I don't see you on the streets denouncing the US military and the CIA. I don't see you examining every single prominent US citizen who supports the US and their military. You only single out Israel. Why, just why might that possibly be?



Please go to Germany and tell everyone about your stance. Then defend it in a court. Please do.

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Is this your first time posting on the internet? How oblivious do you have to be to think that people don't do that?

 

[Cocaloch]

As far as I know IDF service is compulsory.

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And yet I know plenty of people who were part of it and still disagree with it.

EDIT: it doesn't mean "people" in an ethnic sense though and it doesn't necessarily mean the establishment of new states. It simply means everyone has the right to have a homeland according to what their cultural, ethnic and civic bonds attribute to what a homeland means. It is vague like that, but then again international law is vague by essence and definition.

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It actually doesn't even say homeland. That's Balfor you're thinking of.

"To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace."

 

[NO!R]

As NinjaScooter already said, it would immensely hypocritical for there to be an American uproar about her support and prayers for her country's military, which she also had to serve in.

It's also super silly to judge a whole person on a relatively minor faux pas.

 

[Kirblar]

I think a great documentary about Israel was the movie The Gatekeepers. Lot's of interviews with Sinbet (sp). The Israeli intelligence force. Talks about the kind of explosive devices they would use, the kind of operations that they would effectuate.

However, a lot of the now retired intelligence officials from Israel. They all seem to share a unanimous conclusion that Israel and its occupation, is just simply untenable, and just a perpetuating cycle of violence.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Following the "Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel on 14 May 1948" - so this is just another example of colonialism? The state of Israel is just a compound inside a hostile country that isn't theirs to begin with?

Is there a difference between say, colonial French occupation of Vietnam? and what is going in, in Israel? I don't put any truck into divine rights, or "hey back then thousands of years ago, some Jewish people did live here, so ergo this land is ours now".

Is this just a really really long Vietnam being played out? or am I reading this situation incorrectly? Like when we remove all the religious pretense and the rest of it.

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You could absolutely call it an example of colonialism in origin, yes. (see: Manifest Destiny)

The issue is that today, 70 years later, this isn't a colony where you can simply withdraw your control and troops from - it's an independent entity, regardless of how it was founded. Colonialism was drawn down throughout the past century, especially in the latter half, but the tactics/solutions used for say, the US and UK aren't applicable to this particular instance.

 

[EMT0]

Actually, yes. The UN Charter states that all people have the collective right of self-determination, that is, the legitimacy to establish a nation for themselves and decide how it will be ruled. It's a cardinal principle of modern international law and democracy. Jewish people, as we know, have been subject to diaspora, so they have never been in one place and, thus, have never been able to claim a nation for themselves. Their claim towards a Jewish state is perfectly valid under international law.

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Right, but there's an assumption there that it's based on the self-determination of those who currently reside on any given land, the same way you wouldn't be able to now legitimize 100 million or so Americans collectively deciding that Canada is now American clay and as such, it is so. So Israel 100% has the right to exist now. But what others are discussing, way back before and following the Balfour Declaration(which was a unilateral move on another countries' lands by the UK anyways...)? Yeah...that's when it's not a good look or a good argument in favor of the Israeli side.

 

[Palas]

You're extrapolating the right to self-determination to mean something it doesn't necessarily have to mean. Mostly because it's unclear, in that classic early 20th century uncritical way, what the terms, especially people, being used actually mean in practice. Especially because natural law had fallen so far behind philosophically by that point.

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Yes, I'm aware of it, but hey, these were the terms evoked to bring Israel about. Above all it was a political decision, as decisions and processes always are, but there is a legal basis. I edited the original post to accomodate this caveat.

 

[Lafiel]

I've stated before but I'd strongly argue Israel doesn't have the right to exist as a state - it's not anti-semitic to argue so. My vision and alternative is of a united Israel/Palestine - which is one where palestinians and israelis alike are able to worship in harmony at a church in Jerusalem, one where palestinians are given equal rights under the law, one where palestinians in west bank and gaza aren't living under military occupation. That's what you find a lot of the progressive Palestinians resisting the occupation and Israelis who oppose the occupation are aspiring towards, esp given the increasingly un-viability of the two-state solution.

 

[Kirblar]

Why not? Like most Irish people have no problem criticizing the IRA. Why does the IDF get a pass?

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One's a terrorist militia group, one's the state military? Same way you wouldn't criticize a soldier who enlisted post-9/11 who got sent to Iraq, but would criticize the NeoCon cabal of ex-Bush I officials who manipulated events to put that soldier there.

I've stated before but I'd strongly argue Israel doesn't have the right to exist as a state - it's not anti-semitic to argue so. My vision and alternative is of a united Israel/Palestine - which is one where palestinians and israelis alike are able to worship in harmony at a church in Jerusalem, one where palestinians are given equal rights under the law, one where palestinians in west bank and gaza aren't living under military occupation. That's what you find a lot of the progressive Palestinians resisting the occupation and Israelis who oppose the occupation are aspiring towards, esp given the increasingly un-viability of the two-state solution.

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Arguing for a one-state solution as the only ethical/moral outcome is not "arguing that Israel doesn't have the right to exist as a state". You will get yourself unnecessarily lumped in with unsavory folks on accident wording it that way.

 

[Cocaloch]

As NinjaScooter already said, it would immensely hypocritical for there to be an American uproar about her support and prayers for her country's military, which she also had to serve in.

It's also super silly to judge a whole person on a relatively minor faux pas.

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As I've said multiple times I don't think it's a huge deal because she isn't using her platform to further this viewpoint, but this is unfair. I heavily disagree with American jingoism in general, but even then I can distinguish between nebulous ra ra the Troops and posting something like #weareright immediately after the US commits a pretty widely noticed atrocity.

I'd also suggest you try telling a Palestinian this is a minor faux pas. Like honestly, find one and tell them that. If you have a heart I highly doubt you'd follow through.

 

[Deleted member 11262]

As NinjaScooter already said, it would immensely hypocritical for there to be an American uproar about her support and prayers for her country's military, which she also had to serve in.

It's also super silly to judge a whole person on a relatively minor faux pas.

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1. This is an international forum.
2. There are more than enough people criticizing what you pointed at.
3. It's not on you to decide how severe that faux pas is. As the mod said it before: If you don't care about it, the most natural course of action is to not post in this thread.

Essentially "but what about...".

 

[Cocaloch]

One's a terrorist militia group, one's the state military?

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I mean this is just the simplest example of Foucauldian power in language. Why's one a terrorist group and the other isn't? Ultimately it's about legitimacy as determined by power. Ironically of course the Irgun was incorporated into the IDF. Guess who the Irgun learned their terrorist tactics from?

Same way you wouldn't criticize a soldier who enlisted post-9/11 who got sent to Iraq, but would criticize the NeoCon cabal of ex-Bush I officials who manipulated events to put that soldier there.

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Well yeah, I'm not saying every member of the IDF is a bad person, I'm saying as an institution it's a bad thing. Much the same way as I would have described the IRA traditionally, though that took a turn by the late troubles.

Anyway, the central distinction between state power and extra-state power is conservative in the highest sense. It merely replicates existing power structures by allowing force to be used by the people who currently have the power to use it and not by others.

On that note I'm generally cautious about people who understand what is often called "terrorism" to be particular bad compared to other kinds of violence in the abstract. If a group described as terrorist kills 20 innocent people I don't think that action is any worse than military killing 20 innocent people. In common usage, it's just a language shell game without there actually being any real meaning behind it. Though I do understand in terms of tactics and strategy its obvious a distinct phenomenon and should be studied from that angle.

 

[Kirblar]

I mean this is just the simplest example of Foucauldian power in language. Why's one a terrorist group and the other isn't? Ultimately it's about legitimacy as determined by power. Ironically of course the Irgun was incorporated into the IDF. Guess who the Irgun learned their terrorist tactics from?

Well yeah, I'm not saying every member of the IDF is a bad person, I'm saying as an institution its a bad thing. Much the same way as I would have described the IRA traditionally, though that took a turn by the late troubles.

Anyway, the central distinction between state power and extra-state power is conservative in the highest sense. It merely replicates existing power structures by allowing force to be used by the people who currently have the power to use it and not by others.

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Given that the IDF is an institution with a mandatory draft, making the distinction between the troops and leadership seems pretty important in order to draw the line between the citizenry as a whole and the military/civillian leadership.

 

[Mr_Black]

You could absolutely call it an example of colonialism in origin, yes. (see: Manifest Destiny)

The issue is that today, 70 years later, this isn't a colony where you can simply withdraw your control and troops from - it's an independent entity, regardless of how it was founded. Colonialism was drawn down throughout the past century, especially in the latter half, but the tactics/solutions used for say, the US and UK aren't applicable to this particular instance.

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So the state of Israel wasn't initially borne out of the the British Mandate for Palestine? But yeah, it all does seem to reek of colonialism. When you wipe away all the race & religious related rhetoric. It feels like an injustice that's had an effective PR campaign for people to sympathize with the state of Israel to a point of near delusion.

But I understand the whole 70 years later business. I just don't understand how in 2017 that Israel isn't taking a more reconciliationary tone. Especially when seeing this business playing out over and over again in history.

Yeah you can say that Palestine and some of the terror groups that are fighting against that settlement are dirty terrorists I suppose, and use brutal tactics. In the same way we'd label the Viet Cong as merely communists and as such should be attacked fiercely. And not just a people that have hand their land taken.

 

[Lafiel]

Arguing for a one-state solution as the only ethical/moral outcome is not "arguing that Israel doesn't have the right to exist as a state". You will get yourself unnecessarily lumped in with unsavory folks on accident wording it that way.

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I think you are missing how Israel current status as a state is justified on the basis of being a etho-state for jewish people. But the thing is if it's existence is dependent on the oppression of Palestinians then no it doesn't have a right to exist, there's often a lot of so-called moderate arguments that attempt to compromise on this question of Israel like "I think Israel has a right to exist as a jewish-ethostate but what IDF and the state is doing to Palestine is too extreme" and I don't think it's putting forward any solution that would ensure a just outcome for both sides, especially Palestinians. .

 

[cosmicblizzard]

if anything, they're the one's that should know how it feels to have your lands occupied, to be driven out of them, and to be killed for no reason. this whole thing is the biggest irony in history, the fact that they're doing to palestinians what they used as a reason to form their country.

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Comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is ridiculous. The scale isn't in the same stratosphere.

 

[Cocaloch]

Given that the IDF is an institution with a mandatory draft, making the distinction between the troops and leadership seems pretty important in order to draw the line between the citizenry as a whole and the military/civillian leadership.

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Right, but where did I do otherwise? When I say the IDF I mean the institution, not every individual within it. I think this is a fairly common understanding of what people are doing when they talk about institutions.

 

[Anton Sugar]

You are literally talking about the US from the past seven decades. Yet I don't see threads by you decrying this. I don't see you on the streets denouncing the US military and the CIA. I don't see you examining every single prominent US citizen who supports the US and their military. You only single out Israel. Why, just why might that possibly be?

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This is some extreme Whataboutism on display. Instead of deflecting and hinting at an antisemitic bend here on Resetera, try directly addressing the critiques that people are laying out. Responding by saying "that's not true, disgusting lies, you don't understand" is nothing. It's a nothing answer.

"You don't understand" has (anecdotally, for me; a part of my mother's extended family is from Israel and are staunchly pro-IDF/Bibi) been such a weak excuse. As if, not being directly linked to a conflict prevents us from seeing it clearly? We can read reports, first hand accounts. In some ways, being removed can allow you to be more objective.

The fact that there are multiple Jewish organizations that fight against the occupation of Palestine and atrocities of the IDF, fly in the face of your argument(s).

I'm allowed to criticize one specific thing only if I explicitly lay out my criticisms on everything in threads made by me on this message board?

Okay.

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Bingo.