Game Difficulty: How Hard is too hard?

[TheAndyMan]

I've been thinking about this, since I was recently playing Megaman Legacy Collection.

I remember reviewers complaining about the difficulty of games like Sekiro, Cuphead and SoulsBourne games.

https://www.theverge.com/platform/a...-ruiner-video-game-difficulty-xbox-one-pc-ps4

Compared to games today, expecting to die dozens of times was not unusual. But this raises the question, how hard is hard? Spending an hour, 2 hours on the same level?

Personally, for me, when it takes at least an hour to beat a section, that can be classified as 'hard'.

Spoiler

I'm going to be honest, I've played Hotline Miami 1 and 2, and dying at least a 1,000 times before I beat them. Megaman personally is kind of cool. Hey look, I don't die in 1 hit. And enemies drop health.

 

[ElephantShell]

Took me three nights to beat the last boss in Sekiro. I walked away feeling it was bit "too hard" for my tastes. Still enjoyed the game and ultimately I can appreciate that fight still.

 

[nsilvias]

if the game feels like you have to do everything with precision

 

[Ferrio]

I don't really consider anything too hard, if I can't beat something it's my issue not the games. I either improve myself or I admit defeat.

 

[Fisty]

I dont usually call game difficulty too hard unless it's been like 2 days and I havent been able to progress.

It's more about why it's so hard though, not really the fact that it is hard. Stuff like poor design or bugs will drive me to quit a tough game far quicker than a super-hard, well designed boss or something

 

[RockmanBN]

It's only too hard if my mortal body expires before completing the challenge.

 

[Muu]

i'm ok with hard if the payoff makes it worth it.

Is the game 'difficult' to begin with? Ramping difficulty means that I know I'm beating a challenge so that I can get to the next one.

Is there loot involved? Familiarizing yourself w/ a raid is pretty common and you have that payoff in the end.

The worst challenges are games that are a pushover overall but have a random spot that's way harder than the rest. Disturbs the flow and you don't really get a sense that it meant anything, esp if everything following ends up being easy again.

 

[Tworenniks]

My tolerance for difficulty changes based on why it's difficult in the first place. I can spend hours and hours on a boss in Sekiro and walk away satisfied because it was fair. Every time I got my ass beat I learned something, getting better as I went. I think Sans is another good example of this.

If something is gimmicky or dumb, I'm likely to quit way before the hour mark.

 

[Syril]

When I don't enjoy it.

 

[Deleted member 679]

Voted Other.

I don't think it depends on how much time it takes me, it depends on whether or not I feel like I'm improving and making progress between attempts or if I'm just waiting to get lucky enough to beat the current section of the game.

Mindless grind is boring, learning how to dodge and punish a hard boss is satisfying.

 

[Deleted member 2620]

insanely subjective, of course, but my generalization is that any action game difficulty demands are fine if the experience (generally the mechanics) can hold up to that level of scrutiny

sometimes the mechanics aren't the star of the show, which is fine, and higher difficulties that put those mechanics more into the spotlight can make the game less enjoyable. other times the mechanics aren't explored enough at lower difficulties, meaning I'd be doing myself a disservice playing on them.

 

[Agni Kai]

When you are stuck on something for few hours. At that point, I know that the game might be too much for me.

 

[Airbar]

As an interactive medium, I try to get the most engaging interaction from videogames which usually means playing on the hardest difficulty (or if that is still to easy making up my own restrictions). Like midway through BB I felt the game was too easy so I started again and played the game in a dressing gown without leveling.

I get why people wouldn't want that (and I hate difficulty in the form of arbitrary busywork like having to regularly open a menu to eat/drink because a UI meter told you to) but the harder the better.

 

[Deleted member 60096]

I don't think theres a specific limit, it depends from game to game. I generally consider something too hard once it starts to hamper my enjoyment, some games can kick my ass but I still enjoy but for example Sekiro was a game that I wouldn't even say the issue was the difficulty itself but something about it came off as unfun. There was like one boss fight that I enjoyed, and it annihilated me so can't put into words the exact issue is, whereas I enjoy basically all other soulsborne games

 

[Sprat]

The only game I've ever found too hard was naughty bear but that was more because it was broken.

Usually I find most games way too easy.

I wish most games didn't have leveling systems so the early challenge persists for the entire experience.

Days gone got way too easy due to this I went back to the initial upgrades for most things to add more challenge & tension to the game.

 

[Pancracio17]

Its really dependent on the game, but generally its when it becomes frustrating and tedious instead of hard.

Like Souls bosses are perfectly fine, but I can understand if someone finds them too hard because of how long it takes the player to get back there. 5+ deaths is like an hour and it feels way harder than it actually is. Meanwhile I can die 20-30 times in Celeste and be perfectly fine due to its fast respawns.

I dont usually call game difficulty too hard unless it's been like 2 days and I havent been able to progress.

It's more about why it's so hard though, not really the fact that it is hard. Stuff like poor design or bugs will drive me to quit a tough game far quicker than a super-hard, well designed boss or something

Click to shrink...

This too. If the player cant tell why or how they fucked up its wayyy more frustrating.

 

[Deleted member 679]

i'm ok with hard if the payoff makes it worth it.

Is the game 'difficult' to begin with? Ramping difficulty means that I know I'm beating a challenge so that I can get to the next one.

Is there loot involved? Familiarizing yourself w/ a raid is pretty common and you have that payoff in the end.

The worst challenges are games that are a pushover overall but have a random spot that's way harder than the rest. Disturbs the flow and you don't really get a sense that it meant anything, esp if everything following ends up being easy again.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, this is a very good point. I recently played through both White Knight Chronicles and White Knight Chronicles II, and I thought it would be an example of this, the first game starts out pretty easy, and then suddenly things ramp up, and I thought it was just a random difficulty spike. But from that point until the end of the second game, it was pretty challenging throughout, so I ended up quite liking the experience.

 

[Thac]

It's pretty game dependent and how much time i have to kill. The longest I ever spent on something was in Bloodborne when the DLC came out. I hadn't played in a long time and got to the first new boss on NG+5...and I was way under leveled. He killed me for about a week straight before I went and made a new character and go back to it only to steamroll him...If this happened today though, I probably would have given up as I just don't have the time to spend doing that anymore.

 

[LavaBadger]

"Too hard" is a measure of frustration. You could die a hundred times on something, or spend a day on it, but if you're having fun overall, it's fine.

When that transitions to feeling like a waste of time, or making you feel incapable of taking on the task, and this overcomes your enjoyment of the game, it becomes too hard.

This is different for everyone. There is no clear numbered metric as to what "too hard" means, which is why devs should include broad difficulty options in their games to cater to players of all types.

 

[NediarPT88]

Took me three nights to beat the last boss in Sekiro. I walked away feeling it was bit "too hard" for my tastes. Still enjoyed the game and ultimately I can appreciate that fight still.

Click to shrink...

I love that fight now but learning it was a pain in the ass.

Way too many phases, seeing new moves 5+ minutes into the fight isn't ideal imo. From games have been suffering from that in a while, I think it started to be a problem for me with DS3 DLC. Bloodborne handled 3 phased bosses much better (they only had slight variations and the fights were much quicker).

I don't mind hard sections, what I don't like is spending time doing something I've already accomplished over and over again to reach the point where I lost previously.

 

[CRIMSON-XIII]

Took me around 30 tries to beat Gulp in Spyro 2 remastered.

 

[Moves]

How badly am I punished for failing?
How much of the difficulty is artificial vs on me?
How intentionally was the difficulty I'm experiencing designed? Is it the problem of a faulty game mechanic/camera/level design issue or was this a fully thought out design?
How much RNG is involved?
Is the challenge optional or part of the main story?
How rewarding does it feel to master the challenge?
Can I feel myself learning/improving my skill at the game? Is the game teaching me something I'm not doing right?
How well in line is the challenge within the context of the rest of the game?


It's a good question OP.. there's so many factors for me when it comes to difficulty... but for me I really think it does depend.

 

[TheAndyMan]

This is different for everyone. There is no clear numbered metric as to what "too hard" means, which is why devs should include broad difficulty options in their games to cater to players of all types.

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Yep, this is why there's multiple poll options for this.

 

[joffocakes]

I dont really think of dying as a measure of difficulty; more how lenient the game is with my mistakes. Whether that means a poor choice, inaccurate timing, lack of finesse etc depends on the game.

I get just as frustrated with games which allow me to blunder through recklessly as I do with those which require absolute precision.

I want to feel, having passed a difficult section, that I've learned something and bettered my skills in the game.

 

[LavaBadger]

Yep, this is why there's multiple poll options for this.

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I think ultimately though, Other is the only way to encompass the feeling here, because the numbers don't actually accurately describe the experience.

 

[Fredrik]

Hollow Knight - all spiky jump dash downward hit segments with slightly too annoying and long way back to the shade

Ori and the Blind Forest - all longer Kuro chase segments with insta death

Cuphead - Most of the game

 

[TheAndyMan]

I think ultimately though, Other is the only way to encompass the feeling here, because the numbers don't actually accurately describe the experience.

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Those options cover a wide range. And most people didn't select "Other".

 

[LAM09]

I'm yet to find a game that's too hard

 

[Timelord19]

If I'm having fun, I beated the final boss of sekiro with the bell, he kill me a gazillion times but it was a very fun fight.

On the other hand the valkyrie queen in the last God of war in max difficulty? I got tired in an hour. I went with the best gear, and she still kill me in one hit and I did almost no damage to her.

I guess that it becomes boring if you feel you aren't progressing or learning. Another example is the White Palace from Hollow Knight, it was hard as hell, but every death you did a bit better or learned the timing of a specific jump.

 

[psynergyadept]

I can't deal with any FPS on the highest difficulty....you peek your head out and instant red screened or dead...TPS I can manage.

 

[Deleted member 14377]

When ti comes down to having to cheese rather than actually utilizing the game's full toolkit of mechanics. Horizon Zero Dawn is recently the worst game for this. Normal is too easy, hard is too cheesy. It's not that it's "hard" it's just corny in the sense that there's a go to set up, and there's no reason to vary it unless you want to struggle.

The souls games have a great balance in the regard that so much is viable in those games, and even among soulslike vets, they still have bosses or enemies that give them a hard time based on how they play the game in particular, or how different builds will face different struggles. It's fun to figure out and utilize your skillset to solve the puzzle that is the enemy, cause there is usually no "wrong" answer.

Upping enemy health and damage while decreasing both of yours is lame.

 

[Van Bur3n]

Nothing is too hard, except for Catherine's higher difficulties.

 

[That Naive Cube!!]

I don't really consider anything too hard, if I can't beat something it's my issue not the games. I either improve myself or I admit defeat.

Click to shrink...

This for the most part

 

[daninthemix]

If I enter a fail state even once, it is the developer that failed. Not me.

 

[NeroPaige]

point and click adventure games, I always eventually can't progress until I read a guide for something.

 

[Deleted member 8860]

I don't really consider anything too hard, if I can't beat something it's my issue not the games. I either improve myself or I admit defeat.

Click to shrink...

Are you a fan of Robocop 3 (SNES)?

 

[jacks81x]

I feel like with a few exceptions, very few games today are "too difficult". If I'm dying a lot, usually it's because of me not putting in the efforts to learn the mechanics as opposed to poor game design. Back in the NES days, a lot of the difficulty spikes are because of poor game design.

 

[TMC]

I spent about 8 hours (in one sitting) attempting to beat the Valkyrie Queen in God of War on the hardest difficulty. I did everything else in the game on the hardest difficulty and I was too stubborn to change it. In retrospect, that was probably too difficult.

 

[Exellus]

My brother struggled with the final boss of Sekiro for 4 hours, probably dying hundreds of times.

It was the most satisfying boss kill he's ever achieved, and is one of his most memorable moments in gaming.

There's no such thing as too hard.

 

[PeskyToaster]

Souls or Sekiro is probably my limit.

 

[FlintSpace]

if the game feels like you have to do everything with precision

Click to shrink...

Same problem I have never finished even the classics Mario game. Well...it was too precise for my taste when I was a kid.

Though Sekiro's difficulty is a bitch the reward is just too good which none others duplicate really well.

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

I want it to be hard but not annoying. This is a careful balancing act that needs thought put into the gameplay mechanics.

Bloodborne is hard. Sekiro is annoying.

 

[Angie]

Whatever Sekiro is.

 

[-PXG-]

Stuck on something for days on end.

Contest mode for day one raids in Destiny 2 are annoying. It's artificial difficulty

 

[J75]

I got very little tolerance for difficulty, if i died 5 times on the same spot, that's too much, that shit is either getting turned down or dropped if there aint no difficulty option.

 

[Bing-Bong]

How frustrated you feel while playing something? I think that's what really sets the bar for anyone.

Me, per example: On one hand i can't stand games like Flappy Bird or IWBTG, they're annoyingly hard; on the other hand i find Souls games easy and fun.

 

[Nintendo]

Dying 5 times in one section is frustrating. Dying 10 times is way too hard.

 

[fourfourfun]

Me starting to feel "this isn't worth my time"

 

[Eppcetera]

It depends a lot on the game, although my basic answer is "When the game stops being fun for me because of the difficulty." I died thousands of times in Celeste, and it basically never got to be too much since dying typically set me back about 10 seconds. However, dying once in an older RPG like SMT: Nocturne could drive me nuts if it meant I lost 30 minutes of progress.

Genre also matters a lot to me. I don't like first-person shooters that much, so my threshold for challenge in shooters is very low (in rare cases when I do play them, I set the difficulty way down), whereas I'm happy to try dozens of times in hard platforming games. Meanwhile, I don't mind tricky fights in RPGs, but I'm not going to play those in hard mode if by "hard," they mean more grinding is needed to win battles.

 

[MrS]

If I'm making progress, regardless of how incremental, I'll keep playing til it's done. If I'm actually stuck and it's obvious after an hour or two that there's no chance I'll be able to progress, I'll drop it.