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Game of Thrones Mafia - We're All Bastards Here
- Thread starter Natiko
- Start date
Blarg winning the Poison reward allowed us to freely bus him. My D5 play was based entirely on the fact Blarg had been awarded a Night Kill and we really did not want Blarg to get lynched before he could use it. If not for that I would have been on the Blarg lynch train D5
Gg scum.
Town, man. But still, gg everyone.
I appreciate all the replacements coming in and trying to jump in. Kawl as well, sorry I yelled at you. Real congrats to all the new players who managed to hang in there. Between the arguments and the hostility, the length of the game, and the inherent stress that the game can bring, I know this game had to be tough. I think y'all did great though.
Town, man. But still, gg everyone.
I appreciate all the replacements coming in and trying to jump in. Kawl as well, sorry I yelled at you. Real congrats to all the new players who managed to hang in there. Between the arguments and the hostility, the length of the game, and the inherent stress that the game can bring, I know this game had to be tough. I think y'all did great though.
Override, baby. You couldn't have lynched me d9, that was the whole point. Scum killing me was completely unexpected and kind of ruined all my (sloppily laid) plans. You were completely right about meatwad. I really didn't mean to make you feel bad with that post and was very sorry to see your reaction. Don't lose heart.
Damn, that's some good Mafia. I never let up my Scum read of Blarg post-D1 even after I was recruited, but I never really pushed it because it was convenient to stay the way I was as I had been playing like I would play if I were town.
Maybe? The truth is-
Wait the game is over?
You bastards! I was sleeping! I had no input into this!
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Congrats on the win! It was a real treat to see you manuever from widely scum read to making it to the end.
Congrats on sucsesfully cleaning up after my bullshit.
Seriously, how did that happen? When town got Monkey I figured it was in the bag, that felt like the hardest lift. Next thing I know it's all going down the drain.
Sorry again for my part in the hostilities everyone. I asked a priest and my penance is a hail mary and to be really fucking polite to everyone for the next two games.
Faddy, I'd still like an apology for the scum terminology spat at some point or else I'll fake a red check on you.
Faddy, I'd still like an apology for the scum terminology spat at some point or else I'll fake a red check on you.
As for complaints, my big one was posted in the thread: indy, trigger, kawl. The spot was inactive for so long I think it should have been modkilled. I know we don't have a direct rule for it but I think the activity rule is there to benefit the game and to that end when an entire role is inactive for a certain period I think it should be removed as it is a complete dead weight on town and doesn't effectively hurt a mafia team that much since they can usually send commands for inactive members. Tossing kawl into the deep end to fill a slot that had missed half the game was unfair to him and all of town imo. So I think we should consider having some kind of rule there.
Also, town got pretty lucky with night powers. Melon basically completely shut down gog while she was alive and lead us to her lynch the next day. No kill tuesday, resurrection. By all means town should have been completely eviscerated much earlier.
Also, town got pretty lucky with night powers. Melon basically completely shut down gog while she was alive and lead us to her lynch the next day. No kill tuesday, resurrection. By all means town should have been completely eviscerated much earlier.
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You'll see some more discussion regarding that slot in the spec thread, but essentially modkilling the slot or not would not have changed the outcome so I don't feel too bad about where we landed on that given there's no set way to deal with that as it's a pretty rare occurrence.
As for the balance, GOG had bad luck in targets moreso than being shut down. I also don't know that I would say town got lucky with actions. They had their unlimited shot weak cop killed N1, they lynched their own backup cop, they lynched their jailer, and they self targeted all slots in a thunderdome. Seems like pretty bad luck when you look at it from that angle lol
As for the balance, GOG had bad luck in targets moreso than being shut down. I also don't know that I would say town got lucky with actions. They had their unlimited shot weak cop killed N1, they lynched their own backup cop, they lynched their jailer, and they self targeted all slots in a thunderdome. Seems like pretty bad luck when you look at it from that angle lol
It was really hard. There really weren't any people I could pin as scummy.
You're welcome. There were points where I wasn't surprised I'd be killed for that. Especially when Monkey was bussing me.
Luck as in we took way less damage than we could have in the night phases.
Disagree on the slot and I've read the spec thread. Town wasted tons of time talking about and eventually lynching a slot that hadn't played half the game against the spirit, imo, of activity rules. It was at best a distraction that town had to deal with that scum didn't and I don't think that was the purpose of that role. As I said, I think it's something we ought to have a rule for in the future. It is what it is here.
Disagree on the slot and I've read the spec thread. Town wasted tons of time talking about and eventually lynching a slot that hadn't played half the game against the spirit, imo, of activity rules. It was at best a distraction that town had to deal with that scum didn't and I don't think that was the purpose of that role. As I said, I think it's something we ought to have a rule for in the future. It is what it is here.
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Sure, I'm just saying for the things you pointed out there's a lot more that town could have done better that would have pushed it from town being ina bad spot to scum being in a bad spot pretty easily.
Had Nicole subbed into that slot instead of Kawl this conversation doesn't even happen. Ultimately as mods we have no control over when a player will or won't be active. If more defined rules are made that's fine, but it's tough to balance because you could institute a rule that causes entire games to end just because someone didn't show up.
I stand by it not having any impact on this game though. If I modkill the slot you spend a day no lynching instead and the final day is entered with the exact same players. I'm pretty sure a lot more time was spent discussing other players than Kawl regardless. I get that it's frustrating, but there's no need to make it out to be a bigger impact than it was.
Alright now that the game is over i would like to officially press charges on piratebae for trying to force me and b-dubs into an icky incestuous coupling.
Sure sure, I agree that it didn't actually end up affecting things too much. Don't want to blow it out of proportion, just that it was an unnecessary stressor for only one team and might be useful to have rules in place for it.
I was just reading your guys' lovers thread, she was shameless in there lol.
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You have no proof!
Quietly goes to scrub all references to it from the Lovers chat.
Yeah, don't get me wrong I'm in no way saying it's an enjoyable situation. I find it just as frustrating when players are inactive myself. I'm just not sure what the best solution is. Do you always modkill a spot after a second player drops due to inactivity? What if it's a second player in the slot dropping but the first one was active..for one day phase then dropped due to other issues? What if a player willingly drops out after one phase of inactivity, does that count as a strike or not? What if this happens during lylo or one lynch from it? Stuff like that is where it gets tricky to implement a one size fits all rule.
Was more like a leper colony than a lover's chat. I think everyone in there was sick at one point or another.
Lol. Also man, I don't blame you for feeling down, my mentor thread is full of me doing the same thing, it was a rough game, I hope to play with you again in the future though.
I still don't know what you were on about. If you truly believed scum included neutrals then DCPat would have died at EoD if i was a neutral in your interpretation. So I could never square you arguing i was a neutral and defining scum as including neutrals. From my POV you were arguing with yourself. But I did go out of my way to use language to annoy you so for that I do apologise.
Generally though I don't believe scum refers to neutrals. If you click through on that wiki article you brought up it refers to an informed minority which most neutrals don't fall into since they only know their own alignment. A neutral survivor isn't scum because they can win with town and many other neutral roles do not need to be lynched or killed for the game to end in a town win.
And for anyone who was wondering, my mentor thread was basically this:
I was terrified of posting on D1.
Sophia gave me some amazing advice about how to get active and start scum hunting.
I followed that advice through the rest of the game.
The rest of the thread is reaction gifs, me either patting myself on the back or feeling like shit, and Sophia and Pirate Bae cheering me up.
That's about it.
I was terrified of posting on D1.
Sophia gave me some amazing advice about how to get active and start scum hunting.
I followed that advice through the rest of the game.
The rest of the thread is reaction gifs, me either patting myself on the back or feeling like shit, and Sophia and Pirate Bae cheering me up.
That's about it.
My idea would just be that replacements go in on probationary status. The first time they don't reach post limit, modkill them. Maybe only in the case where inactive players are being replaced. Like the move from zook to include to nicole was i'm sure disorienting but at least the role was always active and new players were still responsible for what came previously. Dunno
Oh lol I have thoughts here, and they're all mostly: games look great until you give em to players and then it's a whole new ballgame. I doubt ANYONE anticipated we'd just all spill constantly.
I just find it funny in hindsight how I used it on a scum player but the info we got out of it made me town-read them for it. *facepalm*
I love mafia/I suffer every moment of mafia as town or scum. I LOVE THE PAIN
That is to say I feel you.
Yeah I had no idea that it even worked until Kits made her post and explained she would have died if she didn't say it. If you check my Role PM, that is not mentioned anywhere, all I knew was that their religion would "be revealed in the thread". I thought it was just going to be in the day start post, like "Kitsunelaine's religion is Old Gods", so I was worried it got blocked or something until I saw her post and started laughing haha.
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I wasn't too surprised at people divulging (I have some PMs with Zeke where he was worried it would be difficult to hit his win con. Has he not died I think he would've had absolutely no problem lol). The main ideas where we needed fodder for the neutrals, so some roles have light utility, some are red herrings, and others can swing from lots of utility to negative utility depending on use. I thought the biggest point of contention regarding the religion stuff was going to be that scum weren't given an even distribution of religions but it never even got mentioned. I didn't see Fan's almost filler tier PR becoming such a hot topic though. Some PRs just aren't meant to be super helpful.
If you click through, it refers to scum as general anti-town and that is how it is usually used and has been used for a long time in my experience in the community. Include walked into the thread saying just as much. The informed minority bit is a bit wishy washy because technically SK doesn't qualify either yet they call that role out specifically as scum. As to whether neutral survivors are anti-town, I don't see why not. They can win the game while actively hurting the town if they choose. They're not inherently AT sure but they're not pro-town either.
At any rate, I wasn't on about anything, I was asking for clarification on how the DCPat would have reacted to targeting a neutral by confirming how scum was being interpreted by the mods. That was it. I don't think it was unreasonable or reflected any inability to read or understand the game.
I didn't actually think you were neutral so the rest is whatever. I attacked all confirmed town hoping not to eat a nk and maybe keep confirmed town around as possible lynch targets. But failed at that as with everything this game.
Anyway, whatever. I guess to that end, can a mod clarify now what would have happened if dcpat targeted zeke?
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Nah your town circle was right.
Bang up job. End game is hard as hell.
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The reasoning being his wincon was not a clear threat to town. That being said I can certainly see arguments for each side.
That's the wrong conclusion.
The amount of inactivity of this certain slot should've been dealt with earlier as to not influence the endgame as much as it has. Modkilling Trigger would've not lead to the same situation.
Barring I seem to have a more radical approach to these decisions. I've already said that it was a tough call and I understand your decisions. Yet "it not having any impact" is plain wrong.
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By the time Trigger was eligible for a modkill it was endgame. If I modkill Trigger that day, instead of a Kawl lynch D9 you have a no lynch because it's now mylo due to the modkill.
You can't just assume things would've played out the same...
If you modkill him, players don't waste time on a dead spot. D8 would've been lylo with 4 town - 3 scum. Everything would've been different. Fep could've used his override on GP, who knows. There is no late push for Fantomas, nin doesn't vote for Fantomas... etc. pp.
True, but we held out for like 14 seconds where we all pretended to be stoic and then just said fuck it and tossed our collective religion spaghetti into the air. XD
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I think it's a huge stretch to imply a modkill of a town player instead of an extra lynch is suddenly going to swing the game to a different outcome. We can play the what-if game all day long, but functionally the modkill would have replaced the lynch on that spot with a no lynch. The chances that removing town's last mistake allowed would suddenly have led to them ripping off three back to back scum lynches is not very high on the list of probable outcomes. If anything other than that happens then in essence the outcome of the game is not changed. If FEP override's GP to lose the game for town, then town still loses. Only outcomes with a different victor would qualify as impacting the outcome of the game.
There's a lot of different ways that having so much inactivity from a slot can affect the overall experience though. Even if the end result was the same, having a slot with only 1 post across 5 in-game days (Trigger was in the game for 3 full days with just 1 post?) makes it kind of impossible to get accurate reads on once someone ends up jumping into its spot, and really just kind of wastes everyone's time. Low activity players are also a pretty good spot for scum to hide their votes as well. Like, I get you want to avoid modkills wherever you can, but like there was so much dead air from the slot throughout most of the game, I'm not really sure what people are supposed to really do when Kawl jumped in.
If you want to measure impact on the game only by outcome, you are right, but I think there are more aspects to it.
Regardless I think we need to discuss how to handle late drop outs in general.
Regardless I think we need to discuss how to handle late drop outs in general.
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But we can only be expected to act within the confines of the rules placed before us.
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If anyone cares to show me where in the rules it talks about modkilling instead of replacing due to inactivity I would be glad to be corrected. I'll go a step further. Go look at every game since the ten post rule was implemented. How many instances have there been of modkilling a spot due to inactivity if a replacement was available?
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I don't disagree, as I said before though it can't be a one size fits all rule or the day will come when a game is ended due to a modkill which is the lamest possible outcome.
Nah, Mods should use their right to modkill when they see fit. There are no rules in place, it has always been a situation based decision so far, maybe more so before the posting requirement was implemented. This community has a huge aversion to modkills, this is what needs to be discussed.
