Game of Thrones - Off Season No Book Discussion|OT|IncestERA

Lunar Wolf · Dec 6, 2018

"Who was the hardest to cast and who was the easiest to cast? "

David and Dan: Maisie Williams as Arya was the hardest to cast and Mark Addy as Robert Baratheon was the easiest to cast." -

Benioff's favorite House is Stark and Weiss' favorite house is the one with the turtle sigil even though it's not in the show although he still identifies with it. (he means House Estermont)

Lunar Wolf · Dec 6, 2018

Einchy said:
End it as in they knew they'd beat D&D or that they would stay on the show until the very end?

D & D are Benioff and Weiss, lol. David Benioff and Daniel Weiss. : p

Einchy · Dec 6, 2018

The Gunslinger said:
D & D are Benioff and Weiss, lol. David Benioff and Daniel Weiss. : p

Meant to say GRRM.

FaceHugger · Dec 6, 2018

Mark Addy definitely had the personality - I mean, his take on Robert is iconic now. But he never looked like someone who was once tall and strong, but a decade+ took its toll. He just looked like a short fat guy.

Still, I love him. His role in A Knight's Tale made him legend even before this.

Lunar Wolf · Dec 6, 2018

Einchy said:
Meant to say GRRM.

Oh. End it as in they realized the endgame that they were shooting towards.

GRRM told them his endgame in that year and they decided what to jettison, what to keep, what to fill in and what to change after their big meeting.

In 2014, Benioff and Martin talked about their 2013 meet up:

In the April issue of Vanity Fair, on stands March 13, show co-creator David Benioff tells Windolf, "Last year we went out to Santa Fe for a week to sit down with him [Martin] and just talk through where things are going, because we don't know if we are going to catch up and where exactly that would be. If you know the ending, then you can lay the groundwork for it. And so we want to know how everything ends. We want to be able to set things up. So we just sat down with him and literally went through every character." Martin tells Windolf, "I can give them the broad strokes of what I intend to write, but the details aren't there yet.

Last year Benioff mentioned the 2013 meeting again:

Certain things that we learned from George way back in that meeting in Santa Fe are going to happen on the show, but certain things won't. And there's certain things where George didn't know what was going to happen, so we're going to find them out for the first time too, along with millions of readers when we read those books. Some people wish we would wait until the books were finished to finish the show, but George works on his own schedule, which is the way any good writer should do it. He shouldn't be beholden to a TV schedule to finish his novels, that would be completely artificial and would not serve him well. But we do have these actors and they're getting older, and we have to finish.

He had some great stuff that he could share with us, like [Hodor's death], but a lot of it, he wasn't sure yet, because he was writing, and he discovers things by writing. For us as TV writer-producers, we have to be architects. Everything has to be planned out really far in advance. And for us, we can't say we're going to stop and figure things out for a couple years. We know we have to have a season every year, pretty much. We knew we were barreling towards an ending, because we knew from the start the show would run seven or eight years.

So it was after Robb died that they figured out the endgame.

Einchy · Dec 6, 2018

The Gunslinger said:
Oh. End it as in they realized the endgame that they were shooting towards.

GRRM told them his endgame in that year and they decided what to jettison, what to keep, what to fill in and what to change after their big meeting.

Benioff and Martin talking about their 2013 meet up:

Last year where Benioff mentions the 2013 meeting:

Ah, I knew that this happened but I didn't know it was all the way back in 2013.

Punished Goku · Dec 6, 2018

The Gunslinger said:
"Who was the hardest to cast and who was the easiest to cast? "

David and Dan: Maisie Williams as Arya was the hardest to cast and Mark Addy as Robert Baratheon was the easiest to cast." -

Benioff's favorite House is Stark and Weiss' favorite house is the one with the turtle sigil even though it's not in the show although he still identifies with it. (he means House Estermont)

So I see he's a masochist.

Lunar Wolf · Dec 7, 2018

Punished Goku said:
So I see he's a masochist.

George's favorite house is House Stark as well so the author is too.

Hydrus · Dec 10, 2018

"The Story of" series from HBO Go got posted (leaked ?). Has a few hints for the new season.
Jon Snow
Arya
Cersei
Daenerys
Jaime
Bran
Tyrion pt1 & pt2
Sansa

There is also a Sam, Jorah, Davos, Hound videos, but I cant find them.

Ether_Snake · Dec 11, 2018

Hydrus said:
"The Story of" series from HBO Go got posted (leaked ?). Has a few hints for the new season.
Jon Snow
Arya
Cersei
Daenerys
Jaime
Bran
Tyrion pt1 & pt2
Sansa

There is also a Sam, Jorah, Davos, Hound videos, but I cant find them.

Only watched Jon's. I forgot he met with her before Ramsey was defeated.
His repeated annoyanced with Sansa, I wonder if this is a sign of her fucking things up in the last season. I sure expect her to clash with him in the books far more seriously than in the show.

Lunar Wolf · Dec 11, 2018

Ether_Snake said:
Only watched Jon's. I forgot he met with her before Ramsey was defeated.
His repeated annoyanced with Sansa, I wonder if this is a sign of her fucking things up in the last season. I sure expect her to clash with him in the books far more seriously than in the show.

If you read the scripts, it's made very clear that Sansa wants the North and considers multiple times if she's willing to overthrow Jon for it. She only doesn't go along with it because she can't find a way to sell it to Arya.

It's also established that Sansa's problems with Jon aren't resolved by the end of season 7 and she's troubled by Jon x Daenerys.

So expect Sansa to clash with Daenerys and Jon in season 8.

Heshinsi · Dec 11, 2018

The Gunslinger said:
If you read the scripts, it's made very clear that Sansa wants the North and considers multiple times if she's willing to overthrow Jon for it. She only doesn't go along with it because she can't find a way to sell it to Arya.

It's also established that Sansa's problems with Jon aren't resolved by the end of season 7 and she's troubled by Jon x Daenerys.

So expect Sansa to clash with Daenerys and Jon in season 8.

Fuck, we don't have time for this shit. One of the worst parts of season 7 was that idiotic nonsense that was going on between Sansa and Arya. Come on Sansa don't be a dumb Stark. First thing Jon has to do when he gets back north, is feed Lord Does Nothing from the Vale and that other dude who was telling Sansa that choosing Jon was a mistake to a dragon. Nip this nonsense in the bud.

Lunar Wolf · Dec 11, 2018

Heshinsi said:
Fuck, we don't have time for this shit. One of the worst parts of season 7 was that idiotic nonsense that was going on between Sansa and Arya. Come on Sansa don't be a dumb Stark. First thing Jon has to do when he gets back north, is feed Lord Does Nothing from the Vale and that other dude who was telling Sansa that choosing Jon was a mistake to a dragon. Nip this nonsense in the bud.

Here is Sansa not wanting to stamp down disloyalty toward Jon.

Here's Arya seeing right through Sansa. The top of the next page says:

"Arya is right. She knows it. We know it. Sansa knows it."

Sansa is relieved that Bran doesn't want to be Lord of Winterfell.

LF knows how to play Sans's tune. She's the future of House Stark and the North should rally behind her.. She's the trueborn daughter of Lord Ned Stark and Lady Catelyn Stark born in Winterfell. Jon is a motherless bastard born in the South.

Sansa is upset no one mentioned her when they gave Jon the crown.

Sansa is unhappy that she doesn't have the North. And LF alludes to that.

Here's from the Vanity Fair article:

The Sansa Question—What Did She Know and When Did She Know It?:

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Both Sansa haters and lovers alike had some difficulty puzzling out the Stark sister dynamics in Season 7. Arya and Sansa were at each other's throats; the elder sister was inexcusably rude to her vassal Brienne; and things were generally a mess at Winterfell, until they weren't. Did Sansa know all along that Littlefinger was trying to manipulate her into fighting with her sister, or was she, for a time, duped by the late Petyr Baelish?

The script reveals it is the latter. Sansa gets ticked off watching her sister and Brienne spar in the courtyard, and worries Brienne might be an ally for her sister should Arya turn on Sansa. "Sansa is not happy about it" the script reads. Furthermore: "This disturbs Sansa; the woman she thought was her dedicated protector is actually a time share." That's why Sansa abruptly, and unkindly, sends Brienne away.

So when, exactly, did Sansa catch on? She may have had some private suspicions all along, but Baelish doesn't make his big mistake until the season finale, when he tells Sansa that Arya wants to be the lady of Winterfell. Sansa knows very well her sister never wanted any such thing. The script outlines Sansa's moment of dawning realization: "Littlefinger spreads his hands. Well? There it is. Sansa nods. There it is." And that little moment marked the beginning of the end of Littlefinger's climb.

So Sansa is quite a bit power-hungry.

Lunar Wolf · Dec 11, 2018

Oh yeah and the last private convo between Sansa and LF is quite interesting because she's being sincere in it:

Littlefinger: It's not easy for ravens to fly in these storms. Perhaps Jon tried to send word earlier--

Sansa: No. This is the way he is. The way he's always been. He never asks for my opinion. Why would he start now?

LF: I can't believe he'd surrender the northern crown without consulting you--

Sansa: (holds up scroll) This is his writing. His signature. He pledged to fight for Daenerys Targaryen. He bent the knee!

Littlefinger moves about the room examining an ancient First Men carving of a wolf.

LF: I've heard gossip that the Dragon Queen is quite beautiful.

Sansa: What does that have to do with anything?

LF: Jon is young and unmarried. Daenerys is young and unmarried.

Sansa stares at him in disbelief.

Sansa: You think he wants to marry her?

Sansa stares at him in disbelief.

LF: An alliance makes sense. Together, they'd be difficult to defeat.

He lets that thought sink in for Sansa, before continuing.

LF: He was named King in the North. He can be unnamed.

Sansa glances at Littlefinger and looks away. Is she willing to turn that far against her brother?

Sansa: Even if I wanted to....Arya would never go along. She's always loved Jon. Far more than she ever loved me. And she'd kill anyone who betrayed her family.

LF: You're her family, too. Would Arya really murder her own sister?

-------------------------------

So yeah, Sansa thinks about overthrowing Jon.

And there was a news article about Sansa and Daenerys not getting along (at least initially) and there being tension between the two.

So we may have Sansa v Jon & Dany in the background for season 8.

Maybe moreso once Jon finds out that he's Aegon Targaryen and not really Ned Stark's son.

Ether_Snake · Dec 11, 2018

But if Jon finds out he is Aegon, Sansa would tell him to get the Iron throne. I'm guessing Jon will know early on and keep it secret from her, Sansa will be paranoid about Jon taking over, and eventually he'll have to tell to shut her up.

edit: Watching the Arya bit, I forgot she actually told Jaquen she was going home. I'm guessing some faceless dude shows up to kill her off.

Lunar Wolf · Dec 12, 2018

Ether_Snake said:
But if Jon finds out he is Aegon, Sansa would tell him to get the Iron throne. I'm guessing Jon will know early on and keep it secret from her, Sansa will be paranoid about Jon taking over, and eventually he'll have to tell to shut her up.

edit: Watching the Arya bit, I forgot she actually told Jaquen she was going home. I'm guessing some faceless dude shows up to kill her off.

Sansa would still be subordinate to Jon.

I get the feeling that she wants to be top dog not bending the knee to anyone including Jon. Maybe she'll support Jon if he abdicates and lets the North be independent with Sansa as the Queen in the North.

janusff · Dec 14, 2018

Are there lions in the westerlands where the lannisters reside? i understand that there's snakes in dorne and wolves in the north, but lions in westeros seems a bit off and kinda weird it's the lannister sigil, if there are no lions there. would make sense if there were lions in southoros or wherever.

Cyprinodon Martius · Dec 14, 2018

janusff said:
Are there lions in the westerlands where the lannisters reside? i understand that there's snakes in dorne and wolves in the north, but lions in westeros seems a bit off and kinda weird it's the lannister sigil, if there are no lions there. would make sense if there were lions in southoros or wherever.

They once lived there in large numbers, but at the times of the books and show, only a scarce population remains. The grandfather of the Hound and the Mountain saved Tywin's father from a Lion (at the loss of three hounds), and was given a knighthood and a small keep in return.

janusff · Dec 14, 2018

Cyprinodon Martius said:
They once lived there in large numbers, but at the times of the books and show, only a scarce population remains. The grandfather of the Hound and the Mountain saved Tywin's father from a Lion (at the loss of three hounds), and was given a knighthood and a small keep in return.

oooh cool. love little bits like this. thanks!

Lunar Wolf · Dec 14, 2018

janusff said:
Are there lions in the westerlands where the lannisters reside? i understand that there's snakes in dorne and wolves in the north, but lions in westeros seems a bit off and kinda weird it's the lannister sigil, if there are no lions there. would make sense if there were lions in southoros or wherever.

Well...there were no lions/leopards native to England or Normandy yet they used lions/leopards as part of their sigil. That said, there used to be lions in that part of the world.

But still this is a world filled with unicorns, giants, dinosaurs, krakens, fishpeople, neanderthals, wyverns, firewyrms, demons, fire witches, ice zombies, fire lichs, Ice Sidhe, necromancers, dragons, wolves the size of horses, tree wizards etc.

Lions at Casterly Rock isn't really that out there especially since we've hardly even explored the region on the show.

We're always in the North, the Riverlands, Slaver's Bay or King's Landing.

Ether_Snake · Dec 15, 2018

Cyprinodon Martius said:
They once lived there in large numbers, but at the times of the books and show, only a scarce population remains. The grandfather of the Hound and the Mountain saved Tywin's father from a Lion (at the loss of three hounds), and was given a knighthood and a small keep in return.

In Europe, people saw lions in grimoires and such, so a lion or a dragon, same thing; in both cases it was a creature described as having impressive features but which they had never seen.

Cyprinodon Martius · Dec 15, 2018

Ether_Snake said:
In Europe, people saw lions in grimoires and such, so a lion or a dragon, same thing; in both cases it was a creature described as having impressive features but which they had never seen. Dragon, lion, dame thing.

I'm not entirely sure what the point you're trying to make is. Are you suggesting that Tytos Lannister, who had a pride of lions in his menagerie and had maesters at his beck-and-call who could assist with identifying lions, couldn't correctly identify a lion? Or are you suggesting that lions might well of been as mythical as dragons, because we also have ample evidence of dragons in Westeros.

If the books themselves aren't evidence enough for you that lions still exist, GRRM himself has covered this:

Q: We have never had a POV near Casterly Rock. Can you tell me more about the lions of Westeros? Are any still around?

A: A few survive in the outlying hills. For the most part, they have been hunted down. In antiquity, they actually made dens in the rock itself

Lunar Wolf · Dec 15, 2018

Cyprinodon Martius said:
I'm not entirely sure what the point you're trying to make is. Are you suggesting that Tytos Lannister, who had a pride of lions in his menagerie and had maesters at his beck-and-call who could assist with identifying lions, couldn't correctly identify a lion? Or are you suggesting that lions might well of been as mythical as dragons, because we also have ample evidence of dragons in Westeros.

If the books themselves aren't evidence enough for you that lions still exist, GRRM himself has covered this:

He's saying that house's sigils don't need to be reflective of that area's species.

Lunar Wolf · Dec 15, 2018

"GoT never gave people what they want, or what they think they want. Nobody wanted Robb Stark dead because it was painful, but we did it because it was difficult and challenging. The end is not an end that people expect, but it is a satisfying end.The series is very important to us, and ending it in the right way is also very important, so we keep this secret with our lives, we know how people will feel with the end, and we know it will be a roller coaster of emotions." - John Bradley West (Samwell Tarly's actor)

Read that however you like.

Punished Goku · Dec 15, 2018

The Gunslinger said:
"GoT never gave people what they want, or what they think they want. Nobody wanted Robb Stark dead because it was painful, but we did it because it was difficult and challenging. The end is not an end that people expect, but it is a satisfying end.The series is very important to us, and ending it in the right way is also very important, so we keep this secret with our lives, we know how people will feel with the end, and we know it will be a roller coaster of emotions." - John Bradley West (Samwell Tarly's actor)

Read that however you like.

Meaning Bran is king, and he's gonna be his hand, or maester.

janusff · Dec 15, 2018

Lmao imagine if they ended off with Bran being king.

Wew lad

Punished Goku · Dec 15, 2018

janusff said:
Lmao imagine if they ended off with Bran being king.

Wew lad

Gonna be op as fuck. Nobody gonna be able to fuck with him, mofo gonna be 10 steps ahead of everyone.

Ether_Snake · Dec 15, 2018

janusff said:
Lmao imagine if they ended off with Bran being king.

Wew lad

The thing is Bran could do it. He could probably somehow fuck up with people's minds to make them accept him as king, if he felt it was necessary.

Lunar Wolf · Dec 15, 2018

janusff said:
Lmao imagine if they ended off with Bran being king.

Wew lad

The fanbase would go nuclear that the show only built Jon and Dany up to knock them down.

All the House Targaryen fans would journey to New Mexico to burn GRRM's cinema down.

Lunar Wolf · Dec 15, 2018

Ether_Snake said:
The thing is Bran could do it. He could probably somehow fuck up with people's minds to make them accept him as king, if he felt it was necessary.

He'd basically be Sauron with the One Ring then:

Or Emperor Lelouch Vi Brittania with a Geass:

It would be pretty hilarious if the story is about turning Ned Stark's son aka a little crippled boy into Sauron/Lelouch. Westeros is tearing itself apart with civil war and an ice zombie invasion while he learns to dominate the will of all life.

And in the dust, he emerges to unite Westeros under his reign.

GRRM: I don't know that 'deserve' is really an operative word. The Iron Throne doesn't necessarily go to who deserves it, but to who has the power to take and to hold it.

GRRM: But people don't think through the consequences. They have these very powerful wizards but yet they still have kings and lords who are… why wouldn't the wizards rule the world? I mean, power gravitates to it, you know.

Fun to think about though. Probably way too grim for the ending though.

Ether_Snake · Dec 15, 2018

The Gunslinger said:
He'd basically be Sauron with the One Ring then:

Or Emperor Lelouch Vi Brittania with a Geass:

It would be pretty hilarious if the story is about turning Ned Stark's son aka a little crippled boy into Sauron/Lelouch. Westeros is tearing itself apart with civil war and an ice zombie invasion while he learns to dominate the will of all life.

And in the dust, he emerges to unite Westeros under his reign.

Fun to think about though. Probably way too grim for the ending though.

Well I'm not sure if it would be grim, and even in the show I suspect it might go in that direction at least momentarily but there I suspect he wargs into the night king. What will he do if he realizes they just won't work together? He could warg into Cersei and walk her off a window. He could warg into Drogo. Who knows. But yeah I think the quote you posted is probably revelatory of GRRM's intention with Bran.

janusff · Dec 16, 2018

Y'all think we're gonna revisit Edmure Tully and Riverrun in the final season? Wonder what the deal with him is and if his Frey wife and child met up with him. Wouldn't mind a bit of wrap-up on that end.

Lunar Wolf · Dec 16, 2018

janusff said:
Y'all think we're gonna revisit Edmure Tully and Riverrun in the final season? Wonder what the deal with him is and if his Frey wife and child met up with him. Wouldn't mind a bit of wrap-up on that end.

They brought back Gendry so Edmure Tully has a chance to come back.

I expect him to be freed by next season.

illamap · Dec 19, 2018

I was just wondering has there been any characters that have gone from morally good characters to bad. Vice versa there is plenty of examples. Please no speculating what might characters might do on last season.

Lunar Wolf · Dec 19, 2018

illamap said:
I was just wondering has there been any characters that have gone from morally good characters to bad. Vice versa there is plenty of examples. Please no speculating what might characters might do on last season.

You could make a case that the main characters' stories are about them becoming less morally good sans Jaime Lannister.

Other than that, I guess you could say Stannis Baratheon although he's more a character that dances the line between good and bad until he burns his daughter.

Side-note: There are two such major characters that fit your description but the show decided not to go that route with them.

Jacob4815 · Dec 21, 2018

Trailer is coming.

http://watchersonthewall.com/intima...a-history-upcoming-trailer-teased-ew-hibberd/

illamap · Dec 21, 2018

I still think trailer will come early february, Though I suppose at his point even that is like 5-6 weeks away, so pretty soon.

Ether_Snake · Dec 24, 2018

I think the Night King plot will be over by episode 3 or 4, he'll never make it south.

edit: I think I figured why Kith is so pissed at Sansa in his "The story of" videos, but I'm not spoiling anything in this thread. See the ASOIAF thread instead.

Einchy · Jan 2, 2019

Jacob4815 said:
Trailer is coming.

http://watchersonthewall.com/intima...a-history-upcoming-trailer-teased-ew-hibberd/

I'm gonna try REAL hard not to watch any of the trailers this time around.

jett · Jan 2, 2019

I wonder how many episodes will leak before the season actually premieres. I mean it's inevitable at this point, right? :P

Punished Goku · Jan 2, 2019

Jacob4815 said:
Trailer is coming.

http://watchersonthewall.com/intima...a-history-upcoming-trailer-teased-ew-hibberd/

I just realized that I have a gross beard like Jon Snow.

Einchy · Jan 6, 2019

Oh shit, they just showed, like, 3 seconds of new footage during the Golden Globes.

[edit]

janusff · Jan 6, 2019

Winterfell is yours your grace.

Wew

Ether_Snake · Jan 6, 2019

Fucking Sansa. Winterfell is so not Dany's, we see it in your hating eyes.

I think as soon as she finds out Jon's parentage, and all shit has been falling apart because everyone gathering at Winterfell hates each other, "Jon, tell them you're son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. I'm Queen in the North."

But then enter Sweet Robin, asking for her hand, and it will lead to everything falling apart. He didn't destroy her snow castle for nothing.

Hydrus · Jan 7, 2019

AWWWWWWWWEEEEE YEEEEEEAAAAAHHHH!!! WE ALMOST THERE FAM!!!! NOT MUCH LONGER!!!

iliketopaint_93 · Jan 7, 2019

Einchy said:
Oh shit, they just showed, like, 3 seconds of new footage during the Golden Globes.

[edit]

This season probably won't get awkward

Hydrus · Jan 11, 2019

Sunday HBO will give the premier date and maybe a teaser/ trailer.

janusff · Jan 11, 2019

luca · Jan 12, 2019

So this is the place GoT fans hang out while we wait for Season 8? I've only seen Season 1 and 2, but I want to talk about it since I'll probably need some help explaining stuff. I guess it's better to do a LTTP thread like I did at the old place?

Aren't we doing a Rewatch thread though?

Hydrus · Jan 12, 2019

I

Pachimari said:
So this is the place GoT fans hang out while we wait for Season 8? I've only seen Season 1 and 2, but I want to talk about it since I'll probably need some help explaining stuff. I guess it's better to do a LTTP thread like I did at the old place?

Aren't we doing a Rewatch thread though?

Yep, this is the official thread. Feel free to talk about what you want. I want to rewatch again. Maybe once we know the exact premier date ( tomorrow we find out), we can set up a rewatch thread/ schedule.

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