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Game of Thrones S8, Apr 14-May 19 @9PM EDT |OT| Aunt-Man and the Frost

Oct 29, 2017
4,032
Can someone remind me what happened to Mellisandre in the show because I can't remember where she is.
She said she was leaving for Volantis, presumably because she said she had made terrible mistakes, so she’s pulling a Gandalf to read up on that ring. (That’s figurative: she will come back with some truth or weapon or some such)

She said she would return.

Also note she told Varys their days of whispering in kings’ ears had come to and end, which he rebuked. But in ep1 he specifically says he is not being listened to. He’s not done whispering in a king/queen’s ear I think, but alas, nothing lasts, not for Jon and Dany.

I really hope we get some Bran/Varys scene. I want to see how they would treat each other. Bran is his kryptonite, but Varys is not a liar, just a whisperer and truth-holder.

I suspect Varys will turn his attention to Sansa.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,587
She got exiled after Jon finds out she burned Stannis’ daughter
She brought Jon and Dany together last season. She kept her distance though, watching Jon from a cliff. Then she went back... across the sea? I think? She said she’d return to “die in this strange land.”
 
Interviewer: Outside of Jon's status as the heir to the Iron Throne, and outside of the fact that Sam does not believe in Daenerys' worthiness as a leader, why do you feel Sam believes Jon is the right person to govern Westeros?

John Bradley(Sam's actor):Aside from those two things, which are very important, I think you can look at it from a purely romantic point of view, if you like. Sam knows Jon really well. He knows his heart is in the right place. He knows he does things for the right reasons. He has a very strict moral code that he adheres to as much as he can. Sometimes he makes hard decisions. He never takes any decision lightly. He tries to do everything for the right reasons. That's the romantic view. If you want a more cynical version, of what's under the surface? Sam always has had a habit of manipulating Jon. He's manipulated him on so many other occasions. The reason he manipulates him in the past is to keep Gilly and Baby Sam safe. He manipulated him to be the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch because that was the best chance of getting Gilly and Baby Sam out of Castle Black and into the Citadel. If Jon is in a position of power, he thinks he can work on Jon to make as safe a life as possible for the people he cares the most about in the world. It's a little cynical, but I do think Sam is so hyper-intelligent and calculated that any plot he can scheme and any route he can take to keep Gilly and Baby Sam safe, he's going to do it. If Jon is in a position of power, then he can grease those wheels more easily. Those are two ways of looking at it. Take your pick!

Sam believes in Jon Snow. Jon Snow believes in Daenerys. Can Sam ever get on board with Jon's vision, or in his mind, has Daenerys crossed a line she can never come back from?

In terms of Sam telling Jon about his true claim to the throne, I think it was hurried along by what Daenerys told him. I think he definitely sees Daenerys as unstable, as a volatile character, as somebody who is determined to succeed without a real moral compass. She'll kill people for a minor act of disobedience. I think Sam is very wary of her now and sees how dangerous she can be — not just for Jon Snow, but also in terms of the entire Seven Kingdoms. We could have a Mad Queen here. Sam knows enough about history to know what people who are slightly unhinged and slightly unbalanced are like when they're in charge, and the damage they can cause. Sam has learned from the mistakes of history. He's never going to come around to Daenerys. He's too wise for that. He's too wary and suspicious of her now. If she's going to be incredibly destructive and volatile, then she could get the Seven Kingdoms into a worse position if she continues to be unyielding, impulsive and so violent. If she's going to continue dealing with things in such a violent way, then he can only see dark days ahead if she's on the throne. His desire to tell Jon about his claim to the Iron Throne is all but informed by his desire to make sure some of those dark days of the Mad King and the past reigns of imbalance never continue into the future. Sam has an agenda now. He definitely has an agenda.

--------

Daaaaamn. These are some harsh words.
 
Newsflash: all of the Starks are dumb (Bran in his 3ER form being the sole exception). I have 7 seasons of TV and 5 books to use as references if need be. They're dumb asses: Ned, Cat, Robb, Jon, Arya, Sansa- they are/were literally walking mistake factories.
I meant to quote you.

As I told another poster, Bran and Arya are geniuses in the books. Literally, little kids with the brains of late teenagers with their genius-level IQs.

Their intellect almost breaks my immersion.
 
Nov 1, 2017
3,203
Australia
I feel like this is going to feel so rushed with just 5 episodes left.

Like are they just going to have the army of the dead resolved within 2-3 episodes?

Having them march past Winterfell and completely wreck King's Landing and Cersei before turning around for the finale would actually make it a lot more satisfying I feel.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,023
Interviewer: Outside of Jon's status as the heir to the Iron Throne, and outside of the fact that Sam does not believe in Daenerys' worthiness as a leader, why do you feel Sam believes Jon is the right person to govern Westeros?

John Bradley(Sam's actor):Aside from those two things, which are very important, I think you can look at it from a purely romantic point of view, if you like. Sam knows Jon really well. He knows his heart is in the right place. He knows he does things for the right reasons. He has a very strict moral code that he adheres to as much as he can. Sometimes he makes hard decisions. He never takes any decision lightly. He tries to do everything for the right reasons. That's the romantic view. If you want a more cynical version, of what's under the surface? Sam always has had a habit of manipulating Jon. He's manipulated him on so many other occasions. The reason he manipulates him in the past is to keep Gilly and Baby Sam safe. He manipulated him to be the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch because that was the best chance of getting Gilly and Baby Sam out of Castle Black and into the Citadel. If Jon is in a position of power, he thinks he can work on Jon to make as safe a life as possible for the people he cares the most about in the world. It's a little cynical, but I do think Sam is so hyper-intelligent and calculated that any plot he can scheme and any route he can take to keep Gilly and Baby Sam safe, he's going to do it. If Jon is in a position of power, then he can grease those wheels more easily. Those are two ways of looking at it. Take your pick!

Sam believes in Jon Snow. Jon Snow believes in Daenerys. Can Sam ever get on board with Jon's vision, or in his mind, has Daenerys crossed a line she can never come back from?

In terms of Sam telling Jon about his true claim to the throne, I think it was hurried along by what Daenerys told him. I think he definitely sees Daenerys as unstable, as a volatile character, as somebody who is determined to succeed without a real moral compass. She'll kill people for a minor act of disobedience. I think Sam is very wary of her now and sees how dangerous she can be — not just for Jon Snow, but also in terms of the entire Seven Kingdoms. We could have a Mad Queen here. Sam knows enough about history to know what people who are slightly unhinged and slightly unbalanced are like when they're in charge, and the damage they can cause. Sam has learned from the mistakes of history. He's never going to come around to Daenerys. He's too wise for that. He's too wary and suspicious of her now. If she's going to be incredibly destructive and volatile, then she could get the Seven Kingdoms into a worse position if she continues to be unyielding, impulsive and so violent. If she's going to continue dealing with things in such a violent way, then he can only see dark days ahead if she's on the throne. His desire to tell Jon about his claim to the Iron Throne is all but informed by his desire to make sure some of those dark days of the Mad King and the past reigns of imbalance never continue into the future. Sam has an agenda now. He definitely has an agenda.

--------

Daaaaamn. These are some harsh words.
I've been saying it since season 7: they're setting Dany up to fall. The comments she makes during this episode really brought that home for me. Whining about how she's the queen, hinting she might punish Sansa... With Sam's revelations to Jon, we see a big fissure forming there. Once the threats of the dead and Cersei are dealt with, that rift will widen.

I'm pretty sure at this point that Dany will never sit on the Iron Throne. Not sure if Jon wil, either, but I'm definitely in his camp, not Dany's.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,923
I feel like this is going to feel so rushed with just 5 episodes left.

Like are they just going to have the army of the dead resolved within 2-3 episodes?

Having them march past Winterfell and completely wreck King's Landing and Cersei before turning around for the finale would actually make it a lot more satisfying I feel.
They’re gonna get the shit kicked out of them at Winterfell. They’re not ready, they’re fighting with each other, they’re not gonna be able to handle that ice dragon. Expect most of the ancillary characters, the ones that don’t really have large story components left, to die. Tormund, Jorah, Berric, Edd, Varys, possibly one of the Lannister brothers, maybe even Sansa would be a candidate, although that’d be fucked at this point — not that I’d put it past them. And if they take Davos from us, ugh. Hound’s safe because DnD are 100% in on Cleganebowl.

But yeah, expect extreme thread trimming and Bran to pull a rabbit out of a hat when he learns something super important during the battle of Winterfell so that they can get to the Night King and end it in a single stroke. The Cersei and Kings Landing stuff will get resolved during the retreat south and before the final showdown. Maybe they hold on Cersei herself getting done in until afterwards for a clean epilogue
 
They’re gonna get the shit kicked out of them at Winterfell. They’re not ready, they’re fighting with each other, they’re not gonna be able to handle that ice dragon. Expect most of the ancillary characters, the ones that don’t really have large story components left, to die. Tormund, Jorah, Berric, Edd, Varys, possibly one of the Lannister brothers, maybe even Sansa would be a candidate, although that’d be fucked at this point — not that I’d put it past them. And if they take Davos from us, ugh. Hound’s safe because DnD are 100% in on Cleganebowl.

But yeah, expect extreme thread trimming and Bran to pull a rabbit out of a hat when he learns something super important during the battle of Winterfell so that they can get to the Night King and end it in a single stroke. The Cersei and Kings Landing stuff will get resolved during the retreat south and before the final showdown. Maybe they hold on Cersei herself getting done in until afterwards for a clean epilogue
Watch Euron oust Cersei from power before any of them get there and then Euron turns into the final villain. Saruman to the Night King's Sauron.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,923
Watch Euron oust Cersei from power before any of them get there and then Euron turns into the final villain. Saruman to the Night King's Sauron.
That would be hilarious, but I’m expecting him to go one step too far with Cersei in some way and get a gruesome death at the hands of the Mountain. Yara’s scene felt like a wrap for her so I’m not expecting any direct resolution to that family squabble, and giving a faction leader a sudden, impactful death and then writing out the entire faction is right in the late-show’s wheelhouse. See: Dorne, Highgarden.

The Euron-Greyjoys evaporating from the show actually makes more sense than either of those two because once Euron’s dead, it’s totally believable that the rest would fuck off to go pirate somewhere, assimilate into a Kings Landing fleet, or go home with their tails tucked between their legs, whereas all of Dorne and the entire population of Highgarden and its noble houses were basically just swept under the rug despite still very much being there.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
3,483
No. Lyanna Mormont wasn't even cast until season 6 and Jorah was in Essos in season 6 and on Dragonstone in season 7.
No?
She was probably born while Jorah was in exile, so this should be the first time they meet
Disappointing they didn't capitalize on that then to show Jorah to try and make amends. Hope the books at least touch on that if they ever come.
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,688
Phoenix, AZ
Disappointing they didn't capitalize on that then to show Jorah to try and make amends. Hope the books at least touch on that if they ever come.
this episode should've been at least 70 minutes. theres just so many character interactions we needed fleshed out and they only really had time for a couple lines per. and there would be any time for that next week because all 58 mins will be devoted to Jon's parentage drama and Jaime. after ep3, half of them will be dead and the rest might be splitting up again.
 
Aug 20, 2018
3,756
just wondering, can the white walkers cross the narrow seas unto Essos, Volantis and other 'tropical' lands? So far, the north seems to be suited for them. While places like King's Landings will eventually covered in snow too when the real winter comes, are there winter season in those 'tropical lands' too?
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,509
this episode should've been at least 70 minutes. theres just so many character interactions we needed fleshed out and they only really had time for a couple lines per. and there would be any time for that next week because all 58 mins will be devoted to Jon's parentage drama and Jaime. after ep3, half of them will be dead and the rest might be splitting up again.
I feel cheated because we were lead to believe that the entire season would be epic in length across all 6 episodes.

Like, why the fuck isn’t every episode at least 90 minutes?
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,991
Lyanna's tomb being snuck into the background when Jon is absorbing what he just found out was masterful cinematography
I’m torn on the series’ cinematography. There are a lot of great shots, but there’s also a lot of characters walking around each other in unnatural and nonsensical ways to make it happen. Sam’s bumbling was a plausible excuse to draw Jon into the right spot. On the other hand, the Sansa-Tyrion scene was pretty blatant in that regard (although not nearly as egregious as parts of the Red Wedding, where I found the stage direction enormously distracting).
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,101
Very disappointing episode, it felt like a bad hollywood blockbuster just like s7. The dialogue was horrible.

The whole dragon thing felt like a mix of the Fast and the Furious and Aladdin.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,353
Interviewer: Outside of Jon's status as the heir to the Iron Throne, and outside of the fact that Sam does not believe in Daenerys' worthiness as a leader, why do you feel Sam believes Jon is the right person to govern Westeros?

John Bradley(Sam's actor):Aside from those two things, which are very important, I think you can look at it from a purely romantic point of view, if you like. Sam knows Jon really well. He knows his heart is in the right place. He knows he does things for the right reasons. He has a very strict moral code that he adheres to as much as he can. Sometimes he makes hard decisions. He never takes any decision lightly. He tries to do everything for the right reasons. That's the romantic view. If you want a more cynical version, of what's under the surface? Sam always has had a habit of manipulating Jon. He's manipulated him on so many other occasions. The reason he manipulates him in the past is to keep Gilly and Baby Sam safe. He manipulated him to be the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch because that was the best chance of getting Gilly and Baby Sam out of Castle Black and into the Citadel. If Jon is in a position of power, he thinks he can work on Jon to make as safe a life as possible for the people he cares the most about in the world. It's a little cynical, but I do think Sam is so hyper-intelligent and calculated that any plot he can scheme and any route he can take to keep Gilly and Baby Sam safe, he's going to do it. If Jon is in a position of power, then he can grease those wheels more easily. Those are two ways of looking at it. Take your pick!

Sam believes in Jon Snow. Jon Snow believes in Daenerys. Can Sam ever get on board with Jon's vision, or in his mind, has Daenerys crossed a line she can never come back from?

In terms of Sam telling Jon about his true claim to the throne, I think it was hurried along by what Daenerys told him. I think he definitely sees Daenerys as unstable, as a volatile character, as somebody who is determined to succeed without a real moral compass. She'll kill people for a minor act of disobedience. I think Sam is very wary of her now and sees how dangerous she can be — not just for Jon Snow, but also in terms of the entire Seven Kingdoms. We could have a Mad Queen here. Sam knows enough about history to know what people who are slightly unhinged and slightly unbalanced are like when they're in charge, and the damage they can cause. Sam has learned from the mistakes of history. He's never going to come around to Daenerys. He's too wise for that. He's too wary and suspicious of her now. If she's going to be incredibly destructive and volatile, then she could get the Seven Kingdoms into a worse position if she continues to be unyielding, impulsive and so violent. If she's going to continue dealing with things in such a violent way, then he can only see dark days ahead if she's on the throne. His desire to tell Jon about his claim to the Iron Throne is all but informed by his desire to make sure some of those dark days of the Mad King and the past reigns of imbalance never continue into the future. Sam has an agenda now. He definitely has an agenda.

--------

Daaaaamn. These are some harsh words.
Killing Sam's father and brother is really going to bite Dany in the ass, if anyone can turn Jon against her it's him. John Bradley is right, Sam has 2 things going for him, not only does Jon trust him and love him like a brother, Sam is very inteligent and now that he has a grudge against Dany he's going to drive a wedge between them.
I hope things don't escalate to a point where she ends up roasting Sam, I'd like to see him live through this.
 

iRAWRasaurus

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,584
this episode should've been at least 70 minutes. theres just so many character interactions we needed fleshed out and they only really had time for a couple lines per. and there would be any time for that next week because all 58 mins will be devoted to Jon's parentage drama and Jaime. after ep3, half of them will be dead and the rest might be splitting up again.
I mention the same thing to my friend after we watched it. There def could be more interactions between characters meeting again or for the first time.
 
Nov 1, 2017
291
I'm sure Dany killing Sam's family will be an issue but it really shouldn't be. Khaleesi did not do much wrong in the way she handled that situation - Sam and Jon should both be aware of that at this point.
 
Nov 22, 2018
44
Does anyone have a strong grasp on how the other characters even feel about Bran at the moment? Do they actually believe he has magical powers or do they think he's just weird and crazy after being beyond the wall for so long?

Its like every time he tells someone something prophetic or intimately insightful, they stare at him for 2 seconds and then go on about their business, and I can't tell what we as the viewer are supposed to take from it. Is he trying to give them info but they are ignoring him because they think he's crazy? Or is he just so cryptic and distant that they don't know what to think?

It feels like at this point, they should be consulting with Bran and asking him what to do about x, y, z. But he's mostly just being left to himself while everyone else goes about fussing with each other, which leads me to believe everyone just thinks he is crazy and don't take him seriously. But Jon believes in wargs because he was attacked by one. And to that point, Bran could easily prove his abilities by warging, if proof is what any of these people wanted.

Idk. It's frustrating because magic is an element of the show now but without knowing what people actually believe about it, it still doesn't feel properly meshed into plotting. Is everyone still a skeptic or have people bought into magic again?
John Bradley (Samwell), in a recent interview with Joanna Robinson on Vanity Fair, described Bran as having an eerieness and an element of darkness about him. Bran was so distant that it felt like he was talking to him from the other side of a brick wall and that there was no connection between them when they spoke. He also said it felt like they were connecting with something they’re not supposed to.

Bran’s stillness and separation works well with Sam’s energy and lends well to an interesting dynamic between the two.

That’s how Sam sees Bran. Not sure about the others. We learned last season that Sansa and Arya consulted him before LF’s demise. So I’m assuming his sisters (former sisters? Lol), at the very least, believe him.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,767
America
100% agree. The D&Ds started out doing an extremely faithful adaptation of a book series and now the team is basically forced to write their own ASoIaF fanfic in realtime, with the largest stakes possible for a TV show. I'm sure a lot of this season will revert back to season 7 level stupid action movie shit (it pretty much needs to given where we're at in the story), but this episode was at least a reminder of what the show was when it was at its best, so kudos to them.
and it doesn't spoil the books this way ;)
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,606
I'm sure Dany killing Sam's family will be an issue but it really shouldn't be. Khaleesi did not do much wrong in the way she handled that situation - Sam and Jon should both be aware of that at this point.
When Robert Baratheon conquered the kingdoms he didn't decide what to do with his captured enemies until he won the war.
They had options, bending the knee, taking the black etc. But the key thing here being that decisions were made at the tail end of the war.
I think she could have done something similar, maybe have the Lord executed, e.g Randyll. But have their successor taken prisoner until a final decision is made.
Tyrion and Varys weren't being critical for no reason, they knew this would bring consequences.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,606
The truth is, people aren't going to put all of their issues aside at the face of doom.
Call it idiocy, but we see this example every day in our own lifetime.

And Sam and all the northerners acting like dumbfuck. Sam got almost gutted by a white walker once but now he's trying to get jon to overthrow dany because of some technicality.
More than a technicality to be fair.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,606
Yeah Sam suddenly caring about his Dad is rather stupid.
It's not though, Sam took his dad's death fairly well..all things considering.
Man lost his chance to prove his cunt of a father wrong, it's complicated that way.
His brother though? That fucked him up. Did you lot honestly expect him to just be cool with this?
It’s just so careless knowing that a marriage alliance which is so obvious solves this issue straight away.
It's not that easy, would it be the Reign of Dany or Jon?
 
Oct 30, 2017
14,881
DFW, Texas
The truth is, people aren't going to put all of their issues aside at the face of doom.
Call it idiocy, but we see this example every day in our own lifetime.
True, but you can portray that kind of conflict in a believable way. Sansa immediately and blatantly treating Dany like utter shit in front of everyone is stupid and its not believable. Especially when you consider the position they are in.


This is the same girl who over the past few season has learned to "play the game" from Littlefinger and got so good at it that she outplayed him last season. Not only did she outplay him, but she was able to fool Littlefinger to his face by faking emotions. All of this happening towards a person who sold her to a sadist and betrayed her whole family for years. A betrayal that resulted in the deaths of her Brother, Father, and Mother. Yet she still played her role perfectly and never gave anything away. Thats not even mentioning all the times we watched her keep her emotions in check while being a prisoner at the Red Keep. Being polite even to those she utterly loathed and had every right to hate.



But now suddenly she is so inept at keeping her emotions in check in for any length of time in order to pretend to be nice to someone who has literally never done her wrong? That is fucking stupid no matter how you wanna slice it. Sansa has shown herself to be smarter than this and yet suddenly she isn't. Thats just bad writing.


TL;DR

Sansa having suspicions about Dany is not a problem.


Her being openly petty and not even trying to be polite given everything we have seen from her character over the last 7 seasons is stupid.
 
Nov 22, 2018
44
Yeah Sam suddenly caring about his Dad is rather stupid.
I thought it was stupid too but John Bradley made an interesting point that Sam cares because he has unresolved issues with Randyll that he won’t necessarily get to resolve. He talks about how people grieve harder with the death of parents who they have strained relationships with more than parents who they have a good relationship with. Sam is sad but can move on knowing Dickon is okay. The Dickon news is what sets him over the edge. An interesting point he made was about looking to Dany and especially Jorah for some sort of comfort but they give him nothing. They’re cold and detached.

Basically says Sam had a mental breakdown because he can’t process this news all at once.