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People don't know how the Faceless Men's magic works.
So the waif could be anyone.
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Game of Thrones S8, Apr 14-May 19 @9PM EDT |OT| Aunt-Man and the Frost
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So the waif could be anyone.
Technically, it's kind of the other way around. We saw her face get added to the hall, so, anyone with the proper skills could be the Waif, but the Waif can't be anyone (she's dead, Jim).
fAegon was a mistake, he should've never been written in the series.
The latter books are too grand for their own good.
The latter books are too grand for their own good.
I think Aegon and the Golden Company would make a compelling finale. Plus, Sansa would be queen for sure if (f)Aegon reigns as king. The writers have been perfectly okay with skipping any character development and launching straight into the big moments without any build up. It's the price they've paid for ending the show in 8 seasons with two shortened seasons. It's really not beyond them at all. Plus, this is GRRMs ending hearing him talk about it leading up the premiere. The question is, are (f)Aegon and JonCon the real deal in the books, or are they a complete dud like Quentyn Martell?
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The fact that FAegon's been skipped wholesale in the show makes it pretty clear he's a misdirect like Quentyn was.
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It isn't out of the realm of possibility that the waif would cut off her own face Lecter SotL style?
No you're not. This thread is no indication of the general consensus.
Even so, the chance of fAegon showing up when there's only 5 episodes left is 0. You cannot develop the whole Blackfyre plot in that short time, especially when they haven't been introduced as such in the first place. It would probably look cheap in the eyes of non-book readers too.
It's not out of the realm of possibility that there are 45 of her and she's actually a truck driver named Billy Bob, but I'm kinda' trying to stick to what we've been shown and can reasonably assume.
Follow-up on this: why does anyone care about the Waif at all? She's barely a character, she offers literally nothing to the storyline behind being the final boss of Arya's Braavos storyline, and she's literally never been mentioned since.
I legitimately don't understand why anyone has any interest in that character or investment in her returning.
I wish I understood why everyone thinks the "would she do the same" line was so powerful. I dont see why dany would have to consider that given her right to the throne that jon doesnt want, that most agree her message and goals for ruling would be a welcome change for Westeros, shes proven that while she will use violence she usually approaches situations diplomatically first, etc.
Its a pointless question because she isnt nor should she be asked to give up the crown.
Its a pointless question because she isnt nor should she be asked to give up the crown.
The waif comes back as Aegon Targaryen and convinces john to kill arya or he can kiss his crown goodbye.
It does feel kind of like a trick riddle. "Aha, but only those who do not want to rule should be allowed to rule."
The sort of thing that sounds good and profound, but really means very little and is overly simplistic.
Has this ever happened before....a TV series/movie finishing a story before the book itself?
People have their issues with the last season but seeing things I never read before was huge for me.
Just like seeing the White Walker picking up the baby from Crasters Keep to bring to the night king. Or the attack on hardhome. Those deviations were so we to me.
TLDR : not having book spoilers has been fun.
People have their issues with the last season but seeing things I never read before was huge for me.
Just like seeing the White Walker picking up the baby from Crasters Keep to bring to the night king. Or the attack on hardhome. Those deviations were so we to me.
TLDR : not having book spoilers has been fun.
I can't even imagine the torture of book readers. Not blaming them but their constant comparisons and issues with the show because of deviations sucks the life out of some of these threads. But I get it, I was the same with Harry Potter and the movies.
I am glad I just watched the show and still enjoy it immensely. Half the ppl posting in these threads seem to be tortured watching it.
Breh, fAegon ain't happening. Get over it. It'd be way too complicated and messy to introduce and dispense with fAegon with fucking 5 episodes left in the whole series. They are absolutely not introducing any major new characters in this last season. Why do you think they killed off so many side characters in the past two seasons? This is about consolidating and finishing the story with the characters we have left, not about adding new shit.
The primary angst is how the show went from a decent adaptation of the books, full of its complicated politics, morality, and court intrigue to just full blown Hollywood action schlock. Events and actions no longer have to make sense but are instead distilled through the filter of, "will this be cool or shocking to the audience? If yes, then do it." That's what annoys book readers such as myself. I don't care if you consolidate Victarion Greyjoy, Aeron/Damphair Greyjoy, and Euron Greyjoy into one character named Euron Greyjoy, just do it well.
The primary angst is how the show went from a decent adaptation of the books, full of its complicated politics, morality, and court intrigue to just full blown Hollywood action schlock. Events and actions no longer have to make sense but are instead distilled through the filter of, "will this be cool or shocking to the audience? If yes, then do it." That's what annoys book readers such as myself. I don't care if you consolidate Victarion Greyjoy, Aeron/Damphair Greyjoy, and Euron Greyjoy into one character named Euron Greyjoy, just do it well.
Lmfao, imagine if this Strickland guy just went out and said "btw I'm Aegon".
Yeah, I'm glad some aren't writing the show.
Yeah, I'm glad some aren't writing the show.
It's definitely happened with anime and manga (see Fullmetal Alchemist).
What the fuck is this shit about faegon? what? huh?
this crossover between what has happened in the books vs the show is just confusing as fuck.
this crossover between what has happened in the books vs the show is just confusing as fuck.
The question is of whether Dany puts her self-interest before the good of the Seven Kingdoms or vice versa.
It's true that she hasn't really found herself in a situation where she's had to choose. Perhaps she never will. But other characters have made that choice -- Ned and Jon on one hand, Cersei and the Mad King on the other.
I think comparing him to Quentyn is unfair. He's more like a Robb Stark character.
I mean as audience members we know that she will but even if you didnt it's weird that sam would assume she wouldnt given jon supports her. Like it sucks that his brother died but that's how wars work. Had dany not killed his family it would have been Jon and the north anyway, was he going to turn on jon had he killed his family in battle too?
If Sansa is queen and Tyrion is trialed for his agreement with Cersei, considering how she is in ep1, I can see her making him take the black (assuming there is a NW). A repeat of Ned's fate, but she doesn't kill him.
I am really curious to see how Sansa treats Jaime and Theon.
I am really curious to see how Sansa treats Jaime and Theon.
Jon's alleged older brother and Rhaegar's oldest son, Aegon, is apparently alive in the books and busy conquering the Stormlands and rallying Dorne to his side in a set up for conflict against Daenerys where he's the popular Targaryen and she's the unpopular Targaryen.
But it's likely just Illyrio's son and Varys' protege raised to think he's Rhaegar's son and become the perfect king.
He is GRRM's imitation of Perkin Warbeck/Henry Tudor that was not put into the series.
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The poster that was promised!
I should change my name to HotPie
I like all these episodes. I think deep down everyone else does too. It would be more disturbing if nobody cared to complain.
I think young griff got cut becuase they wanted cercia to be the last in the iron throne before dany or jon or whoever, instead of him
Also John the first, who was swapped at birth with another John, a bastard, to protect him from an assassination plot in The Accursed Kings, who lived the rest of his life thinking he was a bastard instead of the true king of France. And the bastard's parents were actually secretly married so the bastard wasn't even a bastard.
Also it would need to include a lot of backstory and extend the show for another season or two.
It's Syrio Forel syndrome but taken to it's illogical conclusion. Maybe both of them come back in the last episode and take the throne.
The Young Griff stuff got taken out because the whole Blackfyre history was too complicated and messed up their clean version of Dany being the last Targ, but surprise, Jon is too.
Adding in a tertiary possible targaryian/blackfyre/imposter player wouldn't work well in the show with the amount of time they had. Should Season 5 have been about that and given Varys more of a big plot to be a part of rather than what they did with Dorne? Probably. Jon Connington would have been a cool character for the show and he would have fleshed out Rhaegar by proxy a bit before the Jon parentage reveal too. But that's not what happened.
Adding in a tertiary possible targaryian/blackfyre/imposter player wouldn't work well in the show with the amount of time they had. Should Season 5 have been about that and given Varys more of a big plot to be a part of rather than what they did with Dorne? Probably. Jon Connington would have been a cool character for the show and he would have fleshed out Rhaegar by proxy a bit before the Jon parentage reveal too. But that's not what happened.
Then he takes off the mask and it's Littlefinger.
The last line is: CHAOSH IS A LADDAH!!!
The entire purpose of Dany's story in the books is to show that she must choose between doing what is good for her people and what she wants to do. And whether she should enforce rule with fear and violence or by political compromise. I don't think she ever expresses a desire to not be queen (though she dislikes many queenly responsibilities), her internal conflict is about what a queen should do.
As it stands, the books have Dany currently rejecting political compromise (in the probably false belief that her husband is trying to poison her) and fleeing on her dragon (the same as in the show). The show has a similar narrative for Dany, but it's not stongly enforced by a fuck ton of chapters that don't really go anywhere and a lot of readers find boring.
This is why Sam's line is interesting. It mimics the books' narrative that Dany must choose between what a Targaryan Queen should do (rule by fire and blood), and what is good for the people she rules over. I don't think it should read literally - that Dany should give up her crown for Jon - but rather whether being queen is more important to her than saving the people.
I suspect Jaime's trial ends with him being forced to take the black. Possibly becoming Lord Commander, since Jon has left and Dolorous Ed is not exactly a general. Otherwise, I don't see how Jaime can be useful. He has no army and can't fight anymore, so he needs something to do until they retreat to King's Landing for the final showdown (by which I mean the Cleganebowl).
I though the episode was alright. It was mostly predictable, but at least it let us know where everyone was, what was happening and what the character's relationships are with each other. The way it mirrors LOTS of the scenes from episode 1 is clever, and makes it a lot more interesting than just "new series first-needs a recap in case viewers forgot stuff".
Oh, and I think D&D were right to cut fAegon. It's long and complicated, and it relies on a huge amount of history that could never fit in the show. His story sounds dodgy as fuck even in the books, which is why he's almost certainly a Blackfyre fake.
The idea that fAegon or "Aegon Strickland" will be introduced now is crazy.
As it stands, the books have Dany currently rejecting political compromise (in the probably false belief that her husband is trying to poison her) and fleeing on her dragon (the same as in the show). The show has a similar narrative for Dany, but it's not stongly enforced by a fuck ton of chapters that don't really go anywhere and a lot of readers find boring.
This is why Sam's line is interesting. It mimics the books' narrative that Dany must choose between what a Targaryan Queen should do (rule by fire and blood), and what is good for the people she rules over. I don't think it should read literally - that Dany should give up her crown for Jon - but rather whether being queen is more important to her than saving the people.
I suspect Jaime's trial ends with him being forced to take the black. Possibly becoming Lord Commander, since Jon has left and Dolorous Ed is not exactly a general. Otherwise, I don't see how Jaime can be useful. He has no army and can't fight anymore, so he needs something to do until they retreat to King's Landing for the final showdown (by which I mean the Cleganebowl).
I though the episode was alright. It was mostly predictable, but at least it let us know where everyone was, what was happening and what the character's relationships are with each other. The way it mirrors LOTS of the scenes from episode 1 is clever, and makes it a lot more interesting than just "new series first-needs a recap in case viewers forgot stuff".
Oh, and I think D&D were right to cut fAegon. It's long and complicated, and it relies on a huge amount of history that could never fit in the show. His story sounds dodgy as fuck even in the books, which is why he's almost certainly a Blackfyre fake.
The idea that fAegon or "Aegon Strickland" will be introduced now is crazy.
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H o wanted to pay fir more seasons
Dave and Dan just only care about the red wedding and nothing else
Dave and Dan just only care about the red wedding and nothing else
That's the IRON LADDAH to you! But for real,, some people probably believe dumb shit like this has a chance of happening. You never know, they might introduce Stoneheart yet. But instead of Cat, it's an actual cat... well actually it's a bunch of cats that swarm together in a humanoid shape and they'll 1v1 Arya because she's been chasing cats. And cats love wool and Arya has a knitting needle for a sword. Arya is actually OLD NAN! Fucking scooby doo shows up and it turns out the entire show has just been a prequel for that weird webcomic that seems to be getting popular round here at the moment. D&D are geniuses.
There wasn't the content for more seasons. Maybe longer 7/8, but I don't trust original D&D material for multiple seasons.
If they would have started this series 10-15 years later than they did they could have gotten double the seasons from it sticking to covering the books in their entirety.
Part of the reason why it's ending now is D&D don't want to do more seasons. It would've ended even sooner but HBO negotiated this last season with them.
More books or no, D&D just don't want to be running this show for 15 years.
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I agree and it's why I get a bit annoyed when people criticize Dany for "wanting power".
Yes, she wants power. But that, in itself, isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sure, she has the bloodline entitlement going on too, but she does want power to make life better for the people, not just for power's sake, unlike people like Tywin or Cersei.
Checked back a few pages and didn't see this posted:
Man I miss the political cat and mouse in King's Landing that was season 2.
The whole "she just wants power" thing is ridiculous in that Dany had no concern in the world about the Iron Throne or being Queen. That is until the attempt on her life by dumb fuck Robert. That changed Drogo's mindset in regards to his deal with Visarys, and when he died she carried on from there. And why wouldn't she want to deal with a problem that to her would never end until she conquers Westeros? The Westerosi rulers have been trying to kill her from the moment she was born.
Also, Dany has had trust issues for a very long time. Her brother was an abusive asshole who traded her to a barbarian for an army. Her most trusted protector was sending back reports on her that led to an attempt on her life. She was betrayed and tricked by a woman she helped saved. Her handmaiden and the man she trusted in Qarth betrayed her, stole her dragons, and killed members of her Khalsa. So when she shows mistrust to people whom she thinks will harm her, I don't know why people are confused by that (Jaime in the next episode).
Speaking of Jaime. Had he not been the son of Tywin Lannister, was what he did in regards to Aerys been something that Ned would have executed him for? I mean Ned and others have taken shots at him for over a decade over that act. But would he have executed him for breaking his Kingsguard oaths if he wasn't the son of a major ally to Robert?
Man I miss the political cat and mouse in King's Landing that was season 2.
The whole "she just wants power" thing is ridiculous in that Dany had no concern in the world about the Iron Throne or being Queen. That is until the attempt on her life by dumb fuck Robert. That changed Drogo's mindset in regards to his deal with Visarys, and when he died she carried on from there. And why wouldn't she want to deal with a problem that to her would never end until she conquers Westeros? The Westerosi rulers have been trying to kill her from the moment she was born.
Also, Dany has had trust issues for a very long time. Her brother was an abusive asshole who traded her to a barbarian for an army. Her most trusted protector was sending back reports on her that led to an attempt on her life. She was betrayed and tricked by a woman she helped saved. Her handmaiden and the man she trusted in Qarth betrayed her, stole her dragons, and killed members of her Khalsa. So when she shows mistrust to people whom she thinks will harm her, I don't know why people are confused by that (Jaime in the next episode).
Speaking of Jaime. Had he not been the son of Tywin Lannister, was what he did in regards to Aerys been something that Ned would have executed him for? I mean Ned and others have taken shots at him for over a decade over that act. But would he have executed him for breaking his Kingsguard oaths if he wasn't the son of a major ally to Robert?
Everyone who was storming the city to kill the king giving Jaime endless shit for killing him on their and the city's behalf will never not be the most hypocritical nonsense
That's because he was a Kingsguard that betrayed his king, not that he killed the king, but that he broke his vows to do so.
The solution should have been get new writers then. The show is only worse for rushing things through because the writers just want it over.
And every member of Robert's rebellion swore an oath to the king, yet they still rebelled and went to war to overthrow him. It's utterly arbitrary
Tywin Lannister and his goons were killing unarmed women and babies, and Robert was cool with that. But killing the King he was going to kill anyways, yeah that was a line too far for them. Which brings us back to the Tarlys and how those guys would not have forgiven them for breaking their vows to House Tyrell. If they're willing to shit on Jaime for killing the guy they were rebelling against, well what fun names do you reckon they'd have for the Tarlys if they didn't outright execute them?
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