Game of Thrones S8 |OT2| Please do not post spoilers here - assume all episodes have been leaked - spoiler tag all future episode speculation

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Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,037
Wasn't that his plan, though? After he talked her into not nuking King's Landing?

And how did Euron know they were going to Dragonstone?
I still think it's very likely that Varys has been leaking the whole time (it would soften the blow of everyone being idiots), but they came up with the plan with everyone in on it at the strategy meeting, Jon was the one who mentioned who was going where iirc.

It was all very rushed.
 
Nov 6, 2017
6,640
Los Angeles
TV credits can be super misleading. The writer room works on everything, and the showrunners get final pass even without getting credit. And how do you know about specific writing quality in 5 and 6? All you'd know from spoilers is from basic outline stuff, which is writers room with final say by showrunners.



For me it has been...
  • Too much Essos
  • A lack of Small Council / Adviser scenes (Tyrion/Varys/Davos scenes this season and last have counted)
  • Focus on extraneous characters with limited lifespans or that I don't care about (Sand Vipers and Greyjoys)
So I guess my answer is 'Season 5 as a whole', too.

I had to take massive breaks from reading in books 4 and 5. Too much of a focus on new plots that I'm having a hard time imagining really amount to much by the end. Aren't there more Greyjoy chapters in the books than there are Dany chapters?
No, lol. Even if you include Theon, Dany has more chapters than all the Greyjoys combined.
 

EndedS

The Fallen
Nov 27, 2018
586
United Kingdom
If Dany doesn't have Tyrion executed in this next episode, then she may as well feed herself to Drogon.

The plan to make a last demand for Cersei's surrender was his plan and it cost her a dragon and Missandei.

Tyrion is Dany's biggest liability, by far.
Dude anyway they had to move to KL for the fight, all of this would have happened for that, this has nothing to do with Tyrion.
 

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,200
I still think it's very likely that Varys has been leaking the whole time (it would soften the blow of everyone being idiots), but they came up with the plan with everyone in on it at the strategy meeting, Jon was the one who mentioned who was going where iirc.

It was all very rushed.
I had not even thought of that but it makes a ton of sense.
 

Browser

Member
Apr 13, 2019
193
Completely changing showrunners has its own set of problems, people have their own interpretations of story arcs and characters and that can lead to weird shifts in a show's vision

But I really don't understand why D&D didn't delegate more. They're clearly burnt out, and that's understandable, their work load must be insane.

But most shows at this level have huge writing staff. The showrunners plot the season and write a few key scripts, while the bulk of the episodes are often written by others.

Sure there's Bryan Cogman and Dave Hill, and there used to be GRRM and a few others, but generally D&D are much more involved at the micro level of writing scripts than other showrunners. If they had taken a step back there and spent more time on finetuning the plot I think the show would have benefited, especially after they ran out of book material
For me its clear that after they had their meeting with disney and knew they were gonna be fine after GOT they wanted to end it. Imagine if they took the time to map out the seasons focusing on narrative instead of subversion and expectations...
 
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shira

shira

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,274
I'm tired of this Star War shit Kathleen can we just wrap it up?
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,678
If Dany doesn't have Tyrion executed in this next episode, then she may as well feed herself to Drogon.

The plan to make a last demand for Cersei's surrender was his plan and it cost her a dragon and Missandei.

Tyrion is Dany's biggest liability, by far.
He’s the dumbest character on the show right now, and the audacity that Varys is plotting treason when Dany has listened to almost every single disastrous plan Tyrion has cooked up, is some of the most ridiculous bullshit I have seen. Tyrion’s council resulted in:

Daario being left behind when a general of his talents would absolutely have been needed.

The loss of Dorne, Ellaria, and the Sand Snake.

The Loss of the Reach and Olenna Tyrell.

The loss of significant ships from the fleet due to Euron’s surprise attacks in season 7.

The loss of Visarion, Thoros, and the destruction of the wall.

After all that, Varys is adamant that Dany must still play with one hand behind her back. The low collateral options have failed one after the other. Mass civilian casualties have already been inflicted by the enemy in their sacking of High Garden and subsequent looting of the Reach. Why are the lives of the people in KL more valuable than the lives of the people of High Garden?

If Stannis had a dragon or two, would he be sieging KL the conventional way, or would he have used those dragons to tear the place apart? You know he would have destroyed KL from the jump and would have laughed at being told to not use them like Dany was told in season 7. Robert would have also used them.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,006
User Warned - Incorrect Marking of Spoilers as Speculation
After the battle when Cersei and Euron are dead, they're probably going to have Dany execute both Tyrion and Varys, and that will be the thing that makes her a "mad queen". When in reality those two have been awful advisors and are now actively talking about treason.

Jon will sullenly thrust his love with his huge, throbbing, turgid sword, and then be sad and go back up north beyond the wall and reunite with Ghost.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
3,075
After the battle when Cersei and Euron are dead, they're probably going to have Dany execute both Tyrion and Varys, and that will be the thing that makes her a "mad queen". When in reality those two have been awful advisors and are now actively talking about treason.

Jon will sullenly thrust his love with his huge, throbbing, turgid sword, and then be sad and go back up north beyond the wall and reunite with Ghost.
Hey hey hey, Tyrion has made monumental fuckups and should prob lose his job but he isn't treasonous....yet
 
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BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,878
He’s the dumbest character on the show right now, and the audacity that Varys is plotting treason when Dany has listened to almost every single disastrous plan Tyrion has cooked up, is some of the most ridiculous bullshit I have seen. Tyrion’s council resulted in:

Daario being left behind when a general of his talents would absolutely have been needed.

The loss of Dorne, Ellaria, and the Sand Snake.

The Loss of the Reach and Olenna Tyrell.

The loss of significant ships from the fleet due to Euron’s surprise attacks in season 7.

The loss of Visarion, Thoros, and the destruction of the wall.

After all that, Varys is adamant that Dany must still play with one hand behind her back. The low collateral options have failed one after the other. Mass civilian casualties have already been inflicted by the enemy in their sacking of High Garden and subsequent looting of the Reach. Why are the lives of the people in KL more valuable than the lives of the people of High Garden?

If Stannis had a dragon or two, would he be sieging KL the conventional way, or would he have used those dragons to tear the place apart? You know he would have destroyed KL from the jump and would have laughed at being told to not use them like Dany was told in season 7. Robert would have also used them.
I swear when I have time I'm going to edit a video together showing the show contradicting itself in just these recent seasons. Remember, Daario was left behind by Dany specifically because she knew she'd have to marry someone to make alliances in Westeros. Then when the very first real potential ally presents herself in Jon Snow, The King in the North, and despite being attracted to him, she doesn't suggest the piss easy solution of them getting married. Instead, she complains about him not bending, refuses to listen to his pleas for aid, and then asks him to go on a pointless suicide mission. ALL of that instead of just marrying the dude and immediately bringing the North to her side.

And now, suddenly she doesn't want to marry because she doesn't wish to "share the throne." What a load of horse shit. Also, what happened to Tyrion talking to her specifically about a successor? She mentions she can't bare children, thus her legacy dies with her. But, she refuses to entertain any means by which she might name a successor. What?!?!?
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,333
Rewatching, Euron's first scene in S6 isn't bad, he came across as otherworldly, which they should have gone more with. Overall He comes across as Theon's obnoxious older brother (even if it's his uncle) There are even better C grade villians in the walking dead tv series.
 

Neece

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,072
I swear when I have time I'm going to edit a video together showing the show contradicting itself in just these recent seasons. Remember, Daario was left behind by Dany specifically because she knew she'd have to marry someone to make alliances in Westeros. Then when the very first real potential ally presents herself in Jon Snow, The King in the North, and despite being attracted to him, she doesn't suggest the piss easy solution of them getting married. Instead, she complains about him not bending, refuses to listen to his pleas for aid, and then asks him to go on a pointless suicide mission. ALL of that instead of just marrying the dude and immediately bringing the North to her side.

And now, suddenly she doesn't want to marry because she doesn't wish to "share the throne." What a load of horse shit. Also, what happened to Tyrion talking to her specifically about a successor? She mentions she can't bare children, thus her legacy dies with her. But, she refuses to entertain any means by which she might name a successor. What?!?!?
Nobody makes sense in this show anymore. Every single major character acts out of character and or constantly contradicts themselves.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,271
I would expect some kind of twist with the NK's fate vs. memory ( "the North remembers" and Tormund mentioning 'the true North' make me ask: "which North remembers?" ), but with two episodes left, ain't nobody got time for that.

Shame too, since that "ice moving forward" intro was actually a neat way to update the map, as well the final pay-off for caring about 'The Wall' for seven seasons... If only they had somehow had more time, or sped things along earlier.
(yes, I am aware D&D's writing intuitions are not very good, and they definitely did not pitch Confederate by accident, is all I'm saying. It is what it is though. )


Also, no Stannis being brought back from the dead. :P
(yes, we talked about this already. )

Seriously though, one thing the books can massively improve on versus the show is the characters having to deal with their undead friends and so on within the wight horde, like Hodor, Stannis, Ned, or for that matter Jon Snow's very mother rising from the crypt or something. They showed it in ep 3 with Berric, Mormont, the Crow dude, and others, but those characters did not have scenes / appearances after getting ''blue eyed", sadly (I'm assuming they didn't have the actors on hand for other scenes, and even those blue eye shots may have been CG'd). That was kind of an oversight since Hardhome set that up, if you will. Having that leader lady in the horde would have at least made for "hey we remembered this is a thing" bit. Could have been a random Crow, for all I care.
I suppose the undead dragon was supposed to be 'that thing', but that doesn't count, since it's not human.

Oh well, at least it's not BSG... yeah, remember that show? And the actual release time table? You fockers calling this "the worst"... there is SO much worse out there. Like the entirety of LOST, yes.
(which I did not watch because it was bullshit from the get go. Great performances, but zero substance storywise. Only "the constant" is an exception)
 

Neoweee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,302
My main hope for the finale is for it to be as well-scored, filmed, and edited as well as The Long Night and the very start of this last episode. I'll fucking despair if it is edited like the second half of this episode.
 
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shira

shira

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,274
Guys can you please avoid writing 'theories' and speculations in this topic? Or at least spoiler tag them.
Morrigan Volimar I think this is a good idea, I just don't know how feasible it is to execute or moderate since a lot of people just want to post funny gifs and twitter posts.

I was thinking maybe after 8.5 we should implement something like this - no "theories" or "suggestions" without spoiler tags for the ending. Or do you want to start doing that now?
 

Jiggy

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,418
wherever
There's not all that many eligible bachelors for Dany to even marry anymore. You got Jon, Jaime, Sweetrobin, Gendry, uhh… whoever's ruling Dorne now?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,271
My main hope for the finale is for it to be as well-scored, filmed, and edited as well as The Long Night and the very start of this last episode. I'll fucking despair if it is edited like the second half of this episode.
8.5 is the same director as 8.3 and hardhome, so it should be alright.

8.6 is the mandatory "producer / creator" director credit, so it could be dogshit, or a meaningful finale, complete coin-toss. So far however, GoT finales have tended to be pretty tight, but those always ended on a cliffhanger, so this might go differently.

But anything like the first three episodes would be great, even if they wouldn't feature something as great in its music as "the night king" theme (the piano bit).
 
Oct 25, 2017
715
Umm...
Users have been posting spoilers in this thread disguised as theories/predictions. Every "prediction" should be put in spoiler tags or posted in the spoiler thread instead.
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,333
Dany never really needed to marry for an alliance in Westeros, she was fucking loaded at the end of S6. She had 3 dragon, Unsullied, Dotharaki, second sons, the Tyrells, Dornes and Greyjoys. She could have won the war right there.

And honestly it might have been cool if S7 began in the spot it is now, Dany invades King's Landing, and Cersei places human shields all over the city, has potential for this hyped conquest to become a tragic massacre. Seeing Dany and Tyrion fail so much felt much less developed and is in the shadow of the superior storyline of stark resistance earlier on.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,312
Brooklyn
Now that I think about it, it's really dumb that Tyrion thinks a bunch of half starved peasants with no training or weapons can overthrow Cersei and her Lannister soldiers, which Tyrion highly praised in S7, and an elite mercenary army.

Was he thinking they'd just mass at the gate and open it or was he hoping there be another poorly guarded royal procession to waltz through the city while the peasants are angry and starving?
 

FaceHugger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,991
Nobody makes sense in this show anymore. Every single major character acts out of character and or constantly contradicts themselves.
The most ridiculous two from last episode were Cersei and Tyrion. Cersei acting like she hasn't wanted him dead for years and has an active contract out on his life - letting him live. And Tyrion still talking to her like the past four seasons haven't happened. "You're not a monster".

D&D are just phoning it in. It's hilarious watching them somberly discuss the episodes in the wrap up as if we've just watched was some kind of deep series of character studies and dramatic, surprising moments.
 

Jiggy

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,418
wherever
Plenty of people cross-post. I've cross-posted. Are there people who post predictions/theories influenced by leaks? Eh, there's a couple of posts that have made me raise an eyebrow but theories in these threads are all over the place so I'm not sure how you can get spoiled here on anything.
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,333
Pathetic for anyone who posts spoilers as theories and want to be congratulated for it or see if they can bend the spoilers rules. Sad.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,312
Brooklyn
Plenty of people cross-post. I've cross-posted. Are there people who post predictions/theories influenced by leaks? Eh, there's a couple of posts that have made me raise an eyebrow but theories in these threads are all over the place that I'm not sure how you can get spoiled here on anything.
I guess best we can do now make a new forum rule that people have to put their predictions in spoilers. Maybe?
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,678
lol do the Lannisters have control over The Twins?
Lol No. their stooges the Freys sorta did, that is until Arya mass murdered them all.

Speaking of that whole region. Jaime allows the remaining Tully forces to leave Riverrun alive. Sansa had sent Brianne to inform her uncle to bring himself and his forces north to join her against the Boltons. Yet we never see those forces again after the siege of Riverrun was over. On top of that, didn’t Jaime promise to send Edmure, his wife, and his baby to Casterly Rock if he helped get the castle to surrender?
 

Volimar

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
10,542
Official Staff Communication
Title updated per OP's request.


shira if you want the wording to be different let me know. And remember you can report your OP and request title changes which might get it done faster than pinging mods.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,006
I actually just posted a prediction. I've put it in spoilers now. Sorry if anybody didn't want to read it or it lined up with leaks. If you've looked at the leaks and it lines up, maybe don't quote it and imply that it's correct? Because that's what is actually spoiling it for people. Me included.

Tanerian and TheBlackNamekian, please scrub your quotes of my post
Gee, what a prediction.
Uh, yikes.

I guess I got it. Cool, thanks for spoiling it for me and anybody who read it by trying to be a backseat mod.
 

Volimar

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
10,542
I actually just posted a prediction. I've put it in spoilers now. Sorry if anybody didn't want to read it or it lined up with leaks. If you've looked at the leaks and it lines up, maybe don't quote it and imply that it's correct? Because that's what is actually spoiling it for people. Me included.

Tanerian and TheBlackNamekian, please scrub your quotes of my post

Uh, yikes.

I guess I got it. Cool, thanks for spoiling it for me and anybody who read it by trying to be a backseat mod.

You're quoting the person quoting you thus further spreading it.



:p
 
Jan 31, 2018
336
It turned into generic TV once the source material ran out. Still entertaining in spots but of the 'turn off your brain' variety. Plotholes, shortcuts and inconsistencies galore. Without everything being spoonfed to them step by step, they're resorting to adding tension for tension's sake and it shows. The Sansa and Arya strife, the Sansa and Daenary's strife, the stupidly powerful scorpions, Qyburn being an all powerful genius, the dragons becoming useless and so easily defeated, Euron...just everything with Euron.

They really just handled season eight so poorly. It looks like they planned it so the first three episodes revolved around the Night King while the latter three would focus on the Iron Throne. But that's completely backwards to the theme they had been building up for the last 10 years basically. The Night Kings essentially becomes little more a side mission. It should have been the other way around or even better, intertwined. Instead, Daenery's, Tyrion, Varys and Sansa, basically all the characters end up looking like morons and the throne itself just doesn't mean as much.

I'm now at the point where I just want the spectacle since I know how unlikely it is that anything will be concluded in a satisfactory way. Bring on the horde of baby dragons from Drogon. Bring on the destruction of Kings Landing and everyone killing each other for the throne. It doesn't matter anymore.
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,333
Official Staff Communication
Title updated per OP's request.


shira if you want the wording to be different let me know. And remember you can report your OP and request title changes which might get it done faster than pinging mods.
Thanks! Bit gutted some people were confirming what speculations had some truth in it based on out of context set pieces or whatever. On old forum threads people used to do it all the time by pretending book spoilers were speculation but I never knew which spoilers were true because there were so many theories.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,006
Hey hey hey, Tyrion has made monumental fuckups and should prob lose his job but he isn't treasonous....yet
I don't know if he actually will be, but he's certainly toeing the line, and I could see him and Varys just getting bundled together by a pissed off Daenerys
You're quoting the person quoting you thus further spreading it.



:p
I've drunk the cup with the iocaine powder, haven't I? shira, hit me with that "more wine" gif. Let's just end it
 

casiopao

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,044
I think I’m at the point where the only satisfactory conclusion they could give me is a scenario where Cersei wins. She’s the only one who they have consistently been true to. Her winning would actually feel deserved and they didn’t butcher any of her character arc to get her to where she is (besides that bit last episode where she doesn’t just kill them all, because that’s not Cersei at all).

Cersei winning would also fit perfectly with the fucked up world we live in anyways.
Cersei winning would be tits. And when the ending comes, it is her new children who murder her to continue the whole circle for the throne once more.^_^
 
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