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Game of Thrones S8 |OT2| Please do not post spoilers here - assume all episodes have been leaked - spoiler tag all future episode speculation
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Very little setup has been done to establish Dany as a character that would purposfiand systematically kill thousands of innocent civilians. She's definitely been harsh to her direct enemies and they could have tried to setup her viewing the people of Westeros as that...but they didn't. She just became evil.
Specifically against Cersei and his own family, I can see it
In all honestly I thought this was a considerably better episode than "The Last of the Starks." Thanks mostly to Sapochnik's amazing direction.
The brutality on display was often difficult to watch, but did an excellent job of showcasing the true horrors of war. I especially liked how they portrayed the northmen, the unsullied and the Dothraki as being no better (and in many ways, far worse) than their enemies.
Danery's change of heart, while abrupt and in some ways unearned, was the only place to take her character. It'll be interesting to see her justification, if she even cares enough to give one.
Clagenebowl was stupid, but then again, how could it not be?
And surprisingly I actually felt sympathy for Cersei. The woman had lost so much, for nothing. It was more than fitting that her and Jamie's journey ended together.
One feeling I couldn't shake throughout the episode though, was how much better served it would've been if it had been set before the final battle with the NK.
Having a "mad queen" as an ally would've put Jon in an interesting moral quandary.
Hopefully the books will correct the show's mistake and make that the true end game.
The brutality on display was often difficult to watch, but did an excellent job of showcasing the true horrors of war. I especially liked how they portrayed the northmen, the unsullied and the Dothraki as being no better (and in many ways, far worse) than their enemies.
Danery's change of heart, while abrupt and in some ways unearned, was the only place to take her character. It'll be interesting to see her justification, if she even cares enough to give one.
Clagenebowl was stupid, but then again, how could it not be?
And surprisingly I actually felt sympathy for Cersei. The woman had lost so much, for nothing. It was more than fitting that her and Jamie's journey ended together.
One feeling I couldn't shake throughout the episode though, was how much better served it would've been if it had been set before the final battle with the NK.
Having a "mad queen" as an ally would've put Jon in an interesting moral quandary.
Hopefully the books will correct the show's mistake and make that the true end game.
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The Clegane Bowl was the most god damn predictable shit, I'm not sure why it's getting any praise at all. It might have been a better pay off in early seasons when
was a central focus, but in the end it still would have been a predictable showdown. I thought
the hound
Dany's heel turn was nicely foreshadowed through out the past couple of seasons, so I was surprised to see people complaining about it, I guess some people really wanted their yuss queen moment.
I'm not the only saying it doesn't feel believable at all, clearly lots of people feel that way.
What show did you watch? She faced insane resistance the entire way in Mereen. She had to do quite a bit to be embraced as much as she was.
She went through some nuts stuff and now "they didn't embrace me" makes her go crazy?
She reached the Dothraki and wasn't embraced. She reached Qarth and wasn't embraced. She reached Mereen and wasn't embraced. Then she went back unwillingly to the Dothraki and wasn't embraced. She had to do shit in all those places to make it work and even then when it should have she had slavers come back and resistances after the fact.
The bells were like that part where you get to choose the good end or bad end.
OP
OP
Well Drogon is the one who was able to fly and eat and grow.
The other 2 had stunted growth because Dany kept them in that dungeon. It's more pronounced in the books, maybe the CG artists didn't want to have two different sized dragons or whatever.
People saying she needs no reason because she's mad and psychotic are missing the point and honestly don't seem to understand madness/psychosis. The point isn't that it's totally unreasonable, the point is they are mad because their internal logic and reasoning is skewed. That it makes sense to them in a certain way. The Mad King tried to burn everyone down because from his perspective they were all coming for him, including his subjects.
There seems to be no reason even from her perspective, one moment she's sitting on top with everyone surrendering and her basically having what she always wanted. The next moment she's heading for the Red Keep, at this point it's still believable that she's going to Cersei and wants to personally kill her and get revenge. But then on her way she starts attacking common public.....like what? Where did that come from in that moment? And I'm talking about that particular moment, not things that happened several seasons ago and were reasonable.
There seems to be no reason even from her perspective, one moment she's sitting on top with everyone surrendering and her basically having what she always wanted. The next moment she's heading for the Red Keep, at this point it's still believable that she's going to Cersei and wants to personally kill her and get revenge. But then on her way she starts attacking common public.....like what? Where did that come from in that moment? And I'm talking about that particular moment, not things that happened several seasons ago and were reasonable.
Like lol she's faced people backstabbing her and populations/political people being ungrateful to her for seasons and seasons. Spot on.
Dude, you're one of the most prolific posters in the leak thread. Don't post spoilers and pass it off as your predictions.
There's no way this isn't just a little taste of bitter. There will be a lot of bitterness next episode and maybe a little bit of sweet.
Yeah seriously. That was the biggest misstep to me so far, it disregards so much time that we spent anticipating those events within a single episode, and it was the definition of an anti-climax.
Ya that was her walking away from vengeance. Turned out as one of the best characters on the show.
No argument there. The fact that Sansa doesn't immediately trust her still doesn't make her racist. Surprised I'm having to explain this
I was worried for a sec in the Hulk vs Abomination fight, but then I remembered Hulk's strong eyeballs can't be popped.
In terms of characters losing their own agency in favor of serving an ending, At least I accept why Dany had to go mad. That is plot. That is a turning point for everything. Forced or not, you don't need to buy that she got there to see that those actions are important for the rest of the story.
However the end for Jaime isn't plot, is character. That was sacrificing his agency for something that does not serve the story, but also fails to serve the character as well because he is no longer in charge of his actions. You don't buy why he got there, but you needed to buy it because him getting there was all that they were selling.
However the end for Jaime isn't plot, is character. That was sacrificing his agency for something that does not serve the story, but also fails to serve the character as well because he is no longer in charge of his actions. You don't buy why he got there, but you needed to buy it because him getting there was all that they were selling.
At one point she even locked up her fucking dragons to try and help things!
She lost her dragons.
You can wish it went differently but it is incorrect to say this wasn't foreshadowed.
After the Night King it was the only satisfying way to end the show.
That shit should be bannable. People definitely have been passing off leaks as predictions for a while now but to be so blatant...
Let it go, marry Jon and be loved by the people
Burn the red keep, become a feared queen
BURN THEM ALL
Did she though? That was all Arya
She failed to have a real impact
Like when Mellisandra lit the fire pit she could have laid down a shit ton of fire and didmt. If it wasn't for Jorah she would be dead.
A lot of people that are upset with Dany turning heel are just letting their inner fanboy get the best of them.
For years this has been foreshadowed and talked about as a legitimate possibility for when the show reached its climax, and now that we're actually here and now that it's actually true, people are now getting mad because their favorite protag didn't the traditional happy feel good conclusion they wanted.
The show's execution and pacing has been shit for the past 3 seasons, but Dany reaching her breaking point was actually the one good thing they were able to build upon this season. She struggled to gain acceptance, watched her dragons and the people she cared about die and also learned that she isn't actually the rightful heir to the throne. Through all that she still tries to be diplomatic by talking to her council, talking to the people she is at odds with and still ends up getting conspired against.
She even tells Jon that she can never gain the love and acceptance that he has with everyone, and the only alternative that she has was to rule with fear.
When she heard the bells, the white flag was already raised, she won, no resistance whatsoever. The only thing that happened at that moment was her deciding what kind of ruler she was going to be.
Solid episode loved it.
For years this has been foreshadowed and talked about as a legitimate possibility for when the show reached its climax, and now that we're actually here and now that it's actually true, people are now getting mad because their favorite protag didn't the traditional happy feel good conclusion they wanted.
The show's execution and pacing has been shit for the past 3 seasons, but Dany reaching her breaking point was actually the one good thing they were able to build upon this season. She struggled to gain acceptance, watched her dragons and the people she cared about die and also learned that she isn't actually the rightful heir to the throne. Through all that she still tries to be diplomatic by talking to her council, talking to the people she is at odds with and still ends up getting conspired against.
She even tells Jon that she can never gain the love and acceptance that he has with everyone, and the only alternative that she has was to rule with fear.
When she heard the bells, the white flag was already raised, she won, no resistance whatsoever. The only thing that happened at that moment was her deciding what kind of ruler she was going to be.
Solid episode loved it.
People eventually break. Even in the real world. How much massacres do we see in real life almost every week from people that were known to be "good" people?
I've come to this conclusion.
It needed more time to develop, yes... But this is the most interesting direction the show could have gone to.
I reached an epiphany where I realized everyone loves the smell of their own shit.
Great episode. Mic drop.
I've known she would never sit on the Iron Throne, the vision in the House of the Undying basically spelt that out years ago.
I just didn't expect her character to devolve in the dumbest way possible with a heel turn that makes Anakin Skywalker look deep. I didn't think GoT as a series would be undercut by the writers desperately short changing the ending to bail out for Star Wars.
That's one "twist" I for sure didn't see coming (neither did the Night King I guess).
It's a shame because the show will never live this down and this will be a tarnish that's on the show's legacy forever. For people who like it, great, but the amount of people this show alienated with its final season it's a damn shame.
About Jaime vs Euron, i think it kinda made sense, because Jaime fought the ironborn in the past and thrashed them, that's why Euron was delighted to think he was the man who killed Jaime. Its seems that as much of a scoundrel he is, he somehow still values his kin.
I was really sad to see Sandor go, but, it was interesting that he saved Arya from herself in the last moment, given she was being consumed by vengeance as he was.
I was really sad to see Sandor go, but, it was interesting that he saved Arya from herself in the last moment, given she was being consumed by vengeance as he was.
So it's pretty weird how the show decides to do the whole, "give up on your revenge Arya, it will make you a monster" thing...AFTER she kills the Frey's and baked them into pies right?
I'm not a show defender, although I have liked both of the Sapochnik episodes this season.
At a guess, Martin's message is probably this: "people are so inherently rotten that even fighting against the end of the world can only bring some of them together, temporarily, after which they'll all go back to being selfish and killing each other again."
The show hasn't put in nearly enough legwork to sell that theme, but it does at least hint at it.
EDIT: I've said before that I think the white walker plotline would have been far stronger if it had jus been ignored for several seasons after the first episode, but the realities of serialised TV storytelling make that impractical.
I don't think Dany wants to share the throne or at least wants the full respect of a king, she loves it when Missandei reads out her million titles like she's the most important person ever. She had talked marriage in Mereen but treated Loraq and Dario as disposable on her way to conquest.
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