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Game of Thrones S8 |OT2| Please do not post spoilers here - assume all episodes have been leaked - spoiler tag all future episode speculation

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Nov 21, 2017
812
So people who want to passionately discuss their feelings about something they've been watching for 9 years and reading for 20+ years are just "pigs in shit" and nothing that they say is valid or interesting or genuine? It's all just that they are HAPPY that they can complain, right?

If you think their arguments are so puerile and contemptible, engage them and offer your response. Otherwise, you're just another self-satisfied and smug internet "intellectual" who thinks the fact that they like what dragon show did makes them superior to anyone who didn't like what the dragon show did, and who contributes absolutely nothing of value or anything worth an ounce of critical thought.

Posts like this are ten times more negative, ignorant, and critically stifling than anything said by anyone who critiques the show.
My comments were addressing those who gleefully shitpost without substance.

Thanks for the drama though.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,385
Seriously when did fire become so desctructive? Perhaps Drogon got a grenade launcher upgrade...
Yeah that was odd especially considering we see Jon hiding behind walls/pillars of stone from Viserion's fire just two episodes ago. Drogon was slicing through those buildings like Selmy could through the King's Guard.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,706
Jon is confused and conflicted. He has some feelings for her, but doesn't know if he should.

But because we only have a couple episodes to work it out thanks to the show being a rushed disaster, putting any blame on Jon is just wrong.
 
Oct 28, 2017
990
I love the absurd dichotomy of Book Euron being this like sinister mystic force who has grand designs and inscrutable goals, and show Euron happily giggling on his deathbed that the he managed to fight a one-armed has been to a draw.
I was just thinking, and I am now of the opinion that they probably should have kept the Iron Islands stuff out of the show altogether.

Like how do you take this world that Martin has created and make a TV show where you get 8 seasons with no more than 10 episodes a season? What do you cut out?

I agree with them cutting out Lady Stoneheart. I think Euron should have never been in the show. Arguably the Dorne stuff? I don't know...
 
It's just funny to me that everyone suspected Dany would go Mad Queen but somehow the show didn't earn it or it came out of nowhere...it's been expected...it's been hinted at...everyone's wondering if it will or won't...but it comes out of nowhere?

Last season she burned the Tarlys rather than give them a chance to reconsider or take the black...and you might say "well that's a far cry from genocide they wouldn't bend the knee!" Yes, but in the moment she was strongest and could most afford to show mercy, and when it made strategic sense, she took the cruelest, blunderous option against Tyrion's advice.

Since then she's lost two of her three dragons who she considers her children, half(?) her armies, her most trusted adviser was executed at a negotiation, she was betrayed by Varys, Tyrion's made blunder after blunder, she's been shocked to find she's not the true heir and feels incredibly insecure knowing Jon both has the better claim and people know/love him, and Jon, who she just went on A Whole New World dragon ride with in Episode 1, is now rebuffing her. Everything's gone sideways and to shit on her since coming to Westeros. She's already rationalizing why at this point she needs to commit genocide to basically start it all over. Tyrion's begging her to call off the attack and she gives this curt nod like "yeah ok whatever" and Grey Worm clearly knows what she's going to do, the the Unsullied are nothing if not Clone Troopers ready to take Order 66 from her.

I dunno...everyone's got their breaking point. Shit has consistently been going south on her since she landed and she likely does blame everyone telling her to hold back and try to overthink things. And one thing the show did right: Emilia's acting is usually not the strong point but she's upped her game this season IMO, and once Dany committed she certainly followed through. I expected the town to be sacked and burned, not a nuke dropped on the Red Keep.

Now the Lannister/Euron/Bronn plot lines...woof.
What breaking point? Why even stop to consider anything? It should have been hell from the first bell. And then you ignore Cersi? Oh but kill the people she fucking hates, rofl. At least have someone throw a tin can at her head. Something. Anything to show an ACTUAL breaking point that isn't John's dick.

Nope.

I think all of expected the journey to eventually end this way, but hoped it would have been executed much better. Defenders of this episode are like, "lol how didn't you see this coming" when that's not even the point.
 
Dec 22, 2017
345
I don't disagree with these assessments or the overall arc the story has taken, my primary issue has been with the execution. D&D just compressed too much character development into too short a span and took obvious shortcuts to get to the ending they want. It's been painfully obvious felt for the last two seasons that all of the actions characters have taken are just plot points on a graph leading to pre-determined outcome rather than feeling like natural progression.

Well damn, this broke down what I was trying to say in a much better way.
I agree. For me (and perhaps because my understanding of the characters is bolstered by the books) I can see the GRRM arcs reaching their conclusion now.

I have mixed feelings about how rushed it is. On the one hand I agree that more episodes would have made this journey smoother. On the other, I feel that 8 seasons is more than enough for any show and I rather want it to end now, so I can understand the approach. As soon as they went beyond the books, anything other than broad plot strokes would not have been outlined and the show would have had to make even more stuff up.

I think what's resulted is a compromise. But, for the aforementioned reasons, I'm fairly sanguine about the whole thing.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,223
The man is allowed to have complicated feelings for her given the circumstances.
Not when the fate of the world and thousands of lives hangs in the balance. Consider that at that point Dany has lost one of her dragons and her best friend and adviser. Meanwhile her remaining advisers are conspiring against her, and everyone in Westeros hates her guts. To top it all off, the man that she loves is being shady as fuck. That's not the best time to say "Hey Dany, I love you and your my queen!" when you're not really sure, and then when she comes in to kiss you to test what you're saying is true, you pull back like you're not being honest.

It's also crazy to see this because Jon is honest about literally EVERYTHING ELSE.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,490
They could have handle Daenarys heel turn much better, but overall I don't feel that it was out of nowhere.

Remember, through most of the series, Daenarys fucked up things a lot of times, but she managed to find solutions to those troubles most of the time by using fire against her enemies. Is true that first it was justified because she used it against slavers, bandits, rapists and the likes, but you have to wonder what would happen when someone innocent annoyed her, at first it was against the war prisoners, which again, were not exactly good, but by that point there was no reason to kill them, and now Daenarys paranoia and insecurities led her to believe that all the people in Westeros hated so there was no other solution for her than use the dragons, the only thing that helped her get what she wanted for most of the series.

I think that the main issue with the series is that the portrayal of the commoners has been for the whole series godawful, we rarely see their point of view in the series, unless the message in the series is that all commoners are sheeple and that their opinion doesn't matter
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,240
I was just thinking, and I am now of the opinion that they probably should have kept the Iron Islands stuff out of the show altogether.

Like how do you take this world that Martin has created and make a TV show where you get 8 seasons with no more than 10 episodes a season? What do you cut out?

I agree with them cutting out Lady Stoneheart. I think Euron should have never been in the show. Arguably the Dorne stuff? I don't know...
Euron's OP nonsense could've been explained away if he had his crazy magic from the books.
We really needed the Crow's Eye.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,385
The point is that "She's his aunt! Of course he's grossed out!" arguments don't make sense when he's going out of his way to make out with her and tell her he loves her since finding out.
I think it's dumb as hell why Jon doesn't directly tell Dany for not reciprocating her physical advances but also to be fair to him I don't think he's been the one to initiate the make out sessions post finding out she's his aunt.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,641
Dare I say....

Varys forced Dany to nuke the whole city.

Mr. Save the Innocent stupidly betrayed Dany by telling the world of Jon's lineage, putting Dany in a terrible situation where she HAD to make a statement.

Varys was stupid to do what he did. A total miscalculation that resulted in the total.opposite of what he wanted to accomplish.

Sansa and the North and everyone else would see Jon as the true king, and since she can't bring herself to just kill Jon, she decided to go with Plan B - scare the whole world into bending the knee for her by destroying King's Landing and everyone who would dare oppose her.

Dany had no choice. She had murder up the place.

I think she should kill all the Starks and Tyrion too, to remove all doubt of her claim. But I don't think D&D have the balls to end the show killing off the most popular showrunners.
 
Oct 28, 2017
7,089
New Jersey
She never had the love of anyone in Westeros outside of maybe the North. And even then, Sansa sure as fuck doesn't trust her.
Who cares what Sansa thinks? Dany was ALWAYS portrayed as a liberator and gained widespread support because of her character and message. That’s why Tyrion supported her in the first place !
 

Spartancarver

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,453
You're the pig reveling in shit if you think this is still the unprecedented show it used to be.
Man, this thread is on fire

Between this and the Dany avatars being so upset they’re actually flooding the forum with entire new threads about DnD bad, I feel like Kings Landing isn’t the only thing in flames right now
 
Apr 23, 2018
182
My favorite part of this episode was the final exchange between Jaime and Tyrion, loved that scene.

And I know it doesn't make much sense rationalize such things in a phantasy series, but daaaaaaaaaamn, that dragon has fire fuel for days!
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,240
Dare I say....

Varys forced Dany to nuke the whole city.

Mr. Save the Innocent stupidly betrayed Dany by telling the world of Jon's lineage, putting Dany in a terrible situation where she HAD to make a statement.

Varys was stupid to do what he did. A total miscalculation that resulted in the total.opposite of what he wanted to accomplish.

Sansa and the North and everyone else would see Jon as the true king, and since she can't bring herself to just kill Jon, she decided to go with Plan B - scare the whole world into bending the knee for her by destroying King's Landing and everyone who would dare oppose her.

Dany had no choice. She had murder up the place.

I think she should kill all the Starks and Tyrion too, to remove all doubt of her claim. But I don't think D&D have the balls to end the show killing off the most popular showrunners.
Dany destroying King's Landing isn't on Varys.
She already won the battle. She then decided, in her madness, to burn all of it down.
None of this can be blamed on any particular character, Jon, Sansa, Tyrion, Varys. Only Dany, she made her choice.
 
Oct 30, 2017
16,106
DFW, Texas
Not when the fate of the world and thousands of lives hangs in the balance. Consider that at that point Dany has lost one of her dragons and her best friend and adviser. Meanwhile her remaining advisers are conspiring against her, and everyone in Westeros hates her guts. That's not the best time to say "Hey Dany, I love you and your my queen!" when you're not really sure, and then we she comes in to kiss you to test what you're saying is true, you pull back like you're not being honest.

It's also crazy to see this because Jon is honest about literally EVERYTHING ELSE.
I think that is the problem. Jon IS being honest. He does truly love her and have feelings for her, but he isn't able to properly deal with the whole "you are also my aunt" part of the equation yet.


But all of that is besides the point. Dany burning down Kings Landing is NOT on Jon or Tyrion. They are the only ones that tried to prevent it from happening in the first place.
 
My comments were addressing those who gleefully shitpost without substance.

Thanks for the drama though.
Your original post was:

Praetorpwj said:
Always amusing to watch the usual twitching hysterics spunking off over how this is JUST THE WORST. See you graceless bitches same time next week as usual.
If there was a distinction to be made about who said what, make it. Could you point out some posts that just gleefully shitposted, saying nothing more than JUST THE WORST without any other comment? Because I don't see any of that.

It's also rich to hear "whoa, whoa, ease up on the drama" when you said that folks were "pigs in shit" and "graceless bitches". I guess Twitter-style one-liners are more fun than actually talking. But whatever.
 
Last edited:
Oct 29, 2017
253
My thoughts around Tyrion. He's always misread women so people saying he is magically dumbed down this season is forgetting that aspect of him. His major misjudgements have always been a result to this. Its not necessarily from just women he's loved but just women in general.
Yeah I'm sure that's the reason D & D turned one of the most savvy and tactical people on the show and turned him into a bumbling mess. And not, you know, plot contrivances.
It's just funny to me that everyone suspected Dany would go Mad Queen but somehow the show didn't earn it or it came out of nowhere...it's been expected...it's been hinted at...everyone's wondering if it will or won't...but it comes out of nowhere?

Last season she burned the Tarlys rather than give them a chance to reconsider or take the black...and you might say "well that's a far cry from genocide they wouldn't bend the knee!" Yes, but in the moment she was strongest and could most afford to show mercy, and when it made strategic sense, she took the cruelest, blunderous option against Tyrion's advice.

Since then she's lost two of her three dragons who she considers her children, half(?) her armies, her most trusted adviser was executed at a negotiation, she was betrayed by Varys, Tyrion's made blunder after blunder, she's been shocked to find she's not the true heir and feels incredibly insecure knowing Jon both has the better claim and people know/love him, and Jon, who she just went on A Whole New World dragon ride with in Episode 1, is now rebuffing her. Everything's gone sideways and to shit on her since coming to Westeros. She's already rationalizing why at this point she needs to commit genocide to basically start it all over. Tyrion's begging her to call off the attack and she gives this curt nod like "yeah ok whatever" and Grey Worm clearly knows what she's going to do, the the Unsullied are nothing if not Clone Troopers ready to take Order 66 from her.

I dunno...everyone's got their breaking point. Shit has consistently been going south on her since she landed and she likely does blame everyone telling her to hold back and try to overthink things. And one thing the show did right: Emilia's acting is usually not the strong point but she's upped her game this season IMO, and once Dany committed she certainly followed through. I expected the town to be sacked and burned, not a nuke dropped on the Red Keep.

Now the Lannister/Euron/Bronn plot lines...woof.
Again, still doesn't get us to where she suddenly has victory in her grasp and decides to commit genocide. The character had established for her a ruthless, power at all costs streak, not vindictive genocide toward her scared and cowering subjects.

She speaks of having to rule by fear, not laying waste to that which she would claim as hers by right.

Plus, this should be stickied at the top of every page, as it gets to the heart of why the characters are coming off so out of character and why people are having to come up with after-the-fact rationalizations to make sense of the abrupt shift.

 
Oct 29, 2017
4,393
I think it’s very very important to remember the lead up to this fight. Dany starts to feel extremely vulnerable to being replaced by Jon. Even if he says he doesn’t want it, if everyone else does then there’s not a lot of options. She was also grieving for her dragon and Missandei so that didn’t help.

Her decision to “let it be fear” did have build up. Maybe not as much as we’re used to seeing, but this season doesn’t have the time to really do that. Really they could have made these 6 episodes into 20, and that probably would have solved a lot of problems with character arcs being trimmed down too much. But the arc is there, it’s not just a sudden unearned flip to crazy town.
Yes but there is zero reason for her to believe the people won’t support her especially after everyone else in Westeros announced their support for her, no reason to believe anyone would believe Jon is the true heir or want to take Dany out for him to rule (bastard, Night Watch vow breaker, friend of wildlings, supported by a red priest like Stannis before him), and especially not after she manages to take the whole city on her own without killing a single civilian.

Did the writers support it? Yes, in a completely unbelievable manner.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,441
People have been expecting Dany to turn into the mad queen or somesuch because it's the logical narrative conclusion to her character. Her father being the mad king, and her promising to end the cycle, break the wheel, be a better ruler, stop tyrants, etc. It's character writing 101. Will she be able to resist becoming what everyone around her are worried she could become?

The show sows seeds of her trying to rule justly and using violence as a last resort or in extreme cases, or as punishment to those that oppress the weak. Things go poorly for her time and time again because of this... but we never get the turn where she actually realizes it and starts finding out that tyranny is the easy out.

She show tries to set this up at the very last minute. And it's completely unearned. "So let it be fear" or whatever she says. They attempt it but the writing is not nuanced enough for me it to be believable.

In the end, her actions in this episode will likely be where the character will land but I expect far more work put into it. A longer slow burn on Dany's mental state and paranoia seeping in.
 
Oct 31, 2017
717
I was just thinking, and I am now of the opinion that they probably should have kept the Iron Islands stuff out of the show altogether.

Like how do you take this world that Martin has created and make a TV show where you get 8 seasons with no more than 10 episodes a season? What do you cut out?

I agree with them cutting out Lady Stoneheart. I think Euron should have never been in the show. Arguably the Dorne stuff? I don't know...
I agree with that. If they knew this would be their time table, just have the Iron Islands be that faraway place where theons from.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,385
I was just thinking, and I am now of the opinion that they probably should have kept the Iron Islands stuff out of the show altogether.

Like how do you take this world that Martin has created and make a TV show where you get 8 seasons with no more than 10 episodes a season? What do you cut out?

I agree with them cutting out Lady Stoneheart. I think Euron should have never been in the show. Arguably the Dorne stuff? I don't know...
Yeah I think a TV adaptation of a sprawling series like ASoIF needs to know the overall story before hand and make decisions on what to excise otherwise you end up with seasons 5-8. Euron honestly could have been completely cut from the show. He was ultimately a pointless lackey to Cersei to give her the appearance of being greater threat than she presented (and to serve as a character the audience can hate) than a character in his own right.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,518
What breaking point? Why even stop to consider anything? It should have been hell from the first bell. And then you ignore Cersi? Oh but kill the people she fucking hates, rofl. At least have someone throw a tin can at her head. Something. Anything to show an ACTUAL breaking point that isn't John's dick.

Nope.

I think all of expected the journey to eventually end this way, but hoped it would have been executed much better. Defenders of this episode are like, "lol how didn't you see this coming" when that's not even the point.
I'd argue the breaking point was when Jon rebuffed her, she felt completely alone and isolated. Nobody is loyal to her, nobody loves her, it's time to rule with fear only...because what else does she have?

She was arguing for genocide in like the next scene and her nod like she'd let the city surrender seemed completely fake. She went there intending to do what she did. The hesitation wasn't her snapping, it was her reconsidering her original plan IMO. Then she's looking over at where Cersei's chilling and goes "yeah, FUCK you!" and goes for it. And she didn't ignore Cersei she literally brought castle down on top of her.

Who cares what Sansa thinks? Dany was ALWAYS portrayed as a liberator and gained widespread support because of her character and message. That’s why Tyrion supported her in the first place !
Essos is not Westeros and slaves are not great houses. Of course a slave is going to welcome someone killing their masters and setting them free. The power structure of Westeros is completely different. And Sansa is basically the most powerful person outside of Dany or Jon at this point.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,223
I think that is the problem. Jon IS being honest. He does truly love her and have feelings for her, but he isn't able to properly deal with the whole "you are also my aunt" part of the equation yet.


But all of that is besides the point. Dany burning down Kings Landing is NOT on Jon or Tyrion. They are the only ones that tried to prevent it from happening in the first place.
Yes it is. Dany is literally telling him that she isn't loved in Westeros, and that idiot Jon is like "None of that matters because you're my queen and I love you!" So Dany tries to kiss him and he pulls away, pretty much reinforcing the notion that no one will ever love her and that she must rule with fear because she can't trust anyone. Yup, good going Jon. Then Tyrion literally goes behind her back and tells the biggest loudmouth in Westeros about Jon's background, pretty much undermining her claim to the throne completely.

Which in turn goes back to Jon because for some reason he's so damn honest that he can't keep a secret from his sisters.

Shit, if I was in Dany's place, I'd roast half the city as well.
 

Arcade55

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,175
- Dany getting mad for no reason after the enemy surrendered wtf. there was no build up for this madness and no, missandeis' death wasn't enough for that especially seeing how calm she is while talking to grey worm this episode.
Bro have we been watching the same show? Dany is a brutal killing machine who loses her temper and kills tons of people ALL THE FUCKING time.

She watched as her brother had molten gold poured on his head.
She burned the masters alive.
She crucified the masters in Myreen.
She locked the Dothraki in a hut and burned them alive.
She massacred the Masters entire fleet and then burned 2/3 of them alive to send a message.
She massacred the entire Lannister army in the field.
She burned the Tarlys alive instead of putting them in jail. She burned Varys alive for betraying her.
She's wanted to burn Kings Landing to the ground SEVERAL times and was only talked out of it by Tyrion who she no longer trusts.

Dany has been on the edge of being a total fucking psycho the entire show but she always had someone with her to hold her back. It was Jorah or Missandei or Tyrion or Dario or what have you. Up until now her homicidal temper has been mostly limited to people we all thought "deserved it".

We must be watching different shows fam.
 
Oct 30, 2017
16,106
DFW, Texas
Yes it is. Dany is literally telling him that she isn't loved in Westeros, and that idiot Jon is like "None of that matters because you're my queen and I love you!" So Dany tries to kiss him and he pulls away, pretty much reinforcing the notion that no one will ever love her and that she must rule with fear because she can't trust anyone. Yup, good going Jon. Then Tyrion literally goes behind her back and tells the biggest loudmouth in Westeros about Jon's background, pretty much undermining her claim to the throne completely.

Which in turn goes back to Jon because for some reason he's so damn honest that he can't keep a secret from his sisters.

Shit, if I was in Dany's place, I'd roast half the city as well.
You won't be able to convince me that its Jon's fault that Dany murdered all the civilians in Kings Landing. We will just have to agree to disagree.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,133
No? The last time I had read spoilers was about Missandei being captured and as always I said it was probably bullshit, then it happened and I stopped reading them until after last night’s episode. Go try and find a comment from me in that thread about spoilers about last night’s episode. There is none because I read none. I didn’t even think Dany would go mad because it seemed too obvious, until I saw the repeated focus on the bells as I watched the show on a 5-10 min delayed stream which made me think it’s obvious now, she will not stop. Just because I posted in that thread doesn’t mean I wasn’t skipping posts about actual spoilers. Find a reply or post about a spoiler about ep5. Good luck.
How did you put the bells together?
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,393
People have been expecting Dany to turn into the mad queen or somesuch because it's the logical narrative conclusion to her character. Her father being the mad king, and her promising to end the cycle, break the wheel, be a better ruler, stop tyrants, etc. It's character writing 101. Will she be able to resist becoming what everyone around her are worried she could become?

The show sows seeds of her trying to rule justly and using violence as a last resort or in extreme cases, or as punishment to those that oppress the weak. Things go poorly for her time and time again because of this... but we never get the turn where she actually realizes it and starts finding out that tyranny is the easy out.

She show tries to set this up at the very last minute. And it's completely unearned. "So let it be fear" or whatever she says. They attempt it but the writing is not nuanced enough for me it to be believable.

In the end, her actions in this episode will likely be where the character will land but I expect far more work put into it. A longer slow burn on Dany's mental state and paranoia seeping in.
She already went Fire & Blood at the end of ADWD. From what I can tell she is going to force the Dothrakis into submission, come back to Mereen and lay waste to the attackers, and be within an inch of burning every city in Essos into submission but lured to instead go to Westeros by people like Tyrion, Victarion and others who are looking to use her to settle their own differences home. And then eventually it blows up in their faces.
 

captive

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,445
Houston
Dany destroying King's Landing isn't on Varys.
She already won the battle. She then decided, in her madness, to burn all of it down.
None of this can be blamed on any particular character, Jon, Sansa, Tyrion, Varys. Only Dany, she made her choice.
agree, but she proved that Sansa and Varys were right. And thats what you see on Tyrions face when he see shat she's doing, the look of "i've made a huge mistake"
 
Nov 7, 2017
1,437
What makes Jaime's character arc so odd is that we really don't get a sense of what turned him away from everything and back to Cersei. He learns about Daenerys getting ambushed and losing a dragon and then decides to go back to Cersei. It seemed so foolish that I thought he was bluffing in order to get close and kill her.

I guess not.
 
Nov 21, 2017
812
Your original post was:



If there was a distinction to be made about who said what, make it. Could you point out some posts that just gleefully shitposted, saying nothing more than JUST THE WORST without any other comment? Because I don't see any of that.

It's also rich to hear "whoa, whoa, ease up on the drama" when you said that folks were "pigs and shit" and "graceless bitches". I guess Twitter-style one-liners are more fun than actually talking. But whatever.
That was part of my original post having carefully removed my comments and criticisms of the episode and book narrative.

‘Pigs in shit’ is an idiom referring to those who revel. At no point did I call anyone a pig or a shit.

Graceless bitches I stand by.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,585
Florida
Same. His arc was never about redemption. How can this man ever redeem himself after all he did?
His ending was fine(apart from that Euron fight, tf was that? lmao), he wasn't butchered. People just had a different idea of where his character was going for years.
The likes of him and Theon can never be redeemed.
D&D should've stopped doing that inside the episode garbage and misleading a ton of people who buy into these "arcs." If they are just pulling shit out of their ass to subverts expectations and garner shock then the point of such a thing means nothing. People are straight up denying arcs and development that they undeniable claimed to setup themselves. Then when it happens one way or another fans who like it are straight up telling people that it was never D&D's endgame.

I am really shocked that people aren't getting why Jamie's ending might not have stuck the landing like at all for some people. I can even understand it in a cynical sense why they did it, I just don't think it was constructed well at all. I guess having him go through all that fake growth was for this? They could have even gone with the whole love can be unconditional route and have Jamie realize his relationship with her could not be the same as his love for which was unconditional. Even having Bran seemingly forgive him... Boning Bri and leaving her as a joke... For what?

Like what was all that for? To demonstrate that there's no logic in love? That this man couldn't become his own person apart from Cersei? Cersei was ready to let this man march to his death in the war against the dead. Her brother's were as good as toast for all she knew and she even used Jamie's child to lul Euron's pointless ass. I guess it's a tragic ending for tragedies sake--but that women does not love Jamie the way he loves her it seems and the fact that they had him crawl back to her like that just doesn't feel right at all.
 
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