He should really stop telling her he loves her, kissing her, and telling her how she's his queen, then. Just a simple, "I'm sorry, this aunt/nephew thing is just too much for me"
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Game of Thrones S8 |OT2| Please do not post spoilers here - assume all episodes have been leaked - spoiler tag all future episode speculation
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He already banged her. Also he's attempted to kiss her passionately multiple times since finding out that she's his aunt.
I just rewatched the whole series and I can confidently say Dany always wanted to act in this way. At the first slight, she was ready to punish and she responds with extreme anger to anyone that questions her actions in any way. The turn to mad queen started in season 2.
No? The last time I had read spoilers was about Missandei being captured and as always I said it was probably bullshit, then it happened and I stopped reading them until after last night's episode. Go try and find a comment from me in that thread about spoilers about last night's episode. There is none because I read none. I didn't even think Dany would go mad because it seemed too obvious, until I saw the repeated focus on the bells as I watched the show on a 5-10 min delayed stream which made me think it's obvious now, she will not stop. Just because I posted in that thread doesn't mean I wasn't skipping posts about actual spoilers. Find a reply or post about a spoiler about ep5. Good luck.
If Aegon had Drogon when he assaulted Harrenhall, there would be no Harrenhall.
Drogon seems to have a friggin rocket launcher in his mouth. Dude's more OP than Balerion.
Drogon seems to have a friggin rocket launcher in his mouth. Dude's more OP than Balerion.
I mean, she didn't even fly to Cersei when she had the chance. In fact, Dany literally gave her time to escape by spending all the time murdering innocent women and children for zero reason.
I'm happy the actors know it's shit and aren't really trying to bullshit anyone into thinking otherwise.
Must be frustrating putting all that effort and time with your character just to be shot out of a cannon
Must be frustrating putting all that effort and time with your character just to be shot out of a cannon
The man is allowed to have complicated feelings for her given the circumstances.
My comments were addressing those who gleefully shitpost without substance.
Thanks for the drama though.
Yeah that was odd especially considering we see Jon hiding behind walls/pillars of stone from Viserion's fire just two episodes ago. Drogon was slicing through those buildings like Selmy could through the King's Guard.
She never had the love of anyone in Westeros outside of maybe the North. And even then, Sansa sure as fuck doesn't trust her.
The point is that "She's his aunt! Of course he's grossed out!" arguments don't make sense when he's going out of his way to make out with her and tell her he loves her since finding out.
I was just thinking, and I am now of the opinion that they probably should have kept the Iron Islands stuff out of the show altogether.
Like how do you take this world that Martin has created and make a TV show where you get 8 seasons with no more than 10 episodes a season? What do you cut out?
I agree with them cutting out Lady Stoneheart. I think Euron should have never been in the show. Arguably the Dorne stuff? I don't know...
What breaking point? Why even stop to consider anything? It should have been hell from the first bell. And then you ignore Cersi? Oh but kill the people she fucking hates, rofl. At least have someone throw a tin can at her head. Something. Anything to show an ACTUAL breaking point that isn't John's dick.
Nope.
I think all of expected the journey to eventually end this way, but hoped it would have been executed much better. Defenders of this episode are like, "lol how didn't you see this coming" when that's not even the point.
I agree. For me (and perhaps because my understanding of the characters is bolstered by the books) I can see the GRRM arcs reaching their conclusion now.
I have mixed feelings about how rushed it is. On the one hand I agree that more episodes would have made this journey smoother. On the other, I feel that 8 seasons is more than enough for any show and I rather want it to end now, so I can understand the approach. As soon as they went beyond the books, anything other than broad plot strokes would not have been outlined and the show would have had to make even more stuff up.
I think what's resulted is a compromise. But, for the aforementioned reasons, I'm fairly sanguine about the whole thing.
Not when the fate of the world and thousands of lives hangs in the balance. Consider that at that point Dany has lost one of her dragons and her best friend and adviser. Meanwhile her remaining advisers are conspiring against her, and everyone in Westeros hates her guts. To top it all off, the man that she loves is being shady as fuck. That's not the best time to say "Hey Dany, I love you and your my queen!" when you're not really sure, and then when she comes in to kiss you to test what you're saying is true, you pull back like you're not being honest.
It's also crazy to see this because Jon is honest about literally EVERYTHING ELSE.
They could have handle Daenarys heel turn much better, but overall I don't feel that it was out of nowhere.
Remember, through most of the series, Daenarys fucked up things a lot of times, but she managed to find solutions to those troubles most of the time by using fire against her enemies. Is true that first it was justified because she used it against slavers, bandits, rapists and the likes, but you have to wonder what would happen when someone innocent annoyed her, at first it was against the war prisoners, which again, were not exactly good, but by that point there was no reason to kill them, and now Daenarys paranoia and insecurities led her to believe that all the people in Westeros hated so there was no other solution for her than use the dragons, the only thing that helped her get what she wanted for most of the series.
I think that the main issue with the series is that the portrayal of the commoners has been for the whole series godawful, we rarely see their point of view in the series, unless the message in the series is that all commoners are sheeple and that their opinion doesn't matter
Remember, through most of the series, Daenarys fucked up things a lot of times, but she managed to find solutions to those troubles most of the time by using fire against her enemies. Is true that first it was justified because she used it against slavers, bandits, rapists and the likes, but you have to wonder what would happen when someone innocent annoyed her, at first it was against the war prisoners, which again, were not exactly good, but by that point there was no reason to kill them, and now Daenarys paranoia and insecurities led her to believe that all the people in Westeros hated so there was no other solution for her than use the dragons, the only thing that helped her get what she wanted for most of the series.
I think that the main issue with the series is that the portrayal of the commoners has been for the whole series godawful, we rarely see their point of view in the series, unless the message in the series is that all commoners are sheeple and that their opinion doesn't matter
Euron's OP nonsense could've been explained away if he had his crazy magic from the books.
We really needed the Crow's Eye.
I think it's dumb as hell why Jon doesn't directly tell Dany for not reciprocating her physical advances but also to be fair to him I don't think he's been the one to initiate the make out sessions post finding out she's his aunt.
Dare I say....
Varys forced Dany to nuke the whole city.
Mr. Save the Innocent stupidly betrayed Dany by telling the world of Jon's lineage, putting Dany in a terrible situation where she HAD to make a statement.
Varys was stupid to do what he did. A total miscalculation that resulted in the total.opposite of what he wanted to accomplish.
Sansa and the North and everyone else would see Jon as the true king, and since she can't bring herself to just kill Jon, she decided to go with Plan B - scare the whole world into bending the knee for her by destroying King's Landing and everyone who would dare oppose her.
Dany had no choice. She had murder up the place.
I think she should kill all the Starks and Tyrion too, to remove all doubt of her claim. But I don't think D&D have the balls to end the show killing off the most popular showrunners.
Varys forced Dany to nuke the whole city.
Mr. Save the Innocent stupidly betrayed Dany by telling the world of Jon's lineage, putting Dany in a terrible situation where she HAD to make a statement.
Varys was stupid to do what he did. A total miscalculation that resulted in the total.opposite of what he wanted to accomplish.
Sansa and the North and everyone else would see Jon as the true king, and since she can't bring herself to just kill Jon, she decided to go with Plan B - scare the whole world into bending the knee for her by destroying King's Landing and everyone who would dare oppose her.
Dany had no choice. She had murder up the place.
I think she should kill all the Starks and Tyrion too, to remove all doubt of her claim. But I don't think D&D have the balls to end the show killing off the most popular showrunners.
Who cares what Sansa thinks? Dany was ALWAYS portrayed as a liberator and gained widespread support because of her character and message. That's why Tyrion supported her in the first place !
Man, this thread is on fire
Between this and the Dany avatars being so upset they're actually flooding the forum with entire new threads about DnD bad, I feel like Kings Landing isn't the only thing in flames right now
Any plans for what to hatewatch next once it's all over this week?
Dany destroying King's Landing isn't on Varys.
She already won the battle. She then decided, in her madness, to burn all of it down.
None of this can be blamed on any particular character, Jon, Sansa, Tyrion, Varys. Only Dany, she made her choice.
I think that is the problem. Jon IS being honest. He does truly love her and have feelings for her, but he isn't able to properly deal with the whole "you are also my aunt" part of the equation yet.
But all of that is besides the point. Dany burning down Kings Landing is NOT on Jon or Tyrion. They are the only ones that tried to prevent it from happening in the first place.
Your original post was:
Praetorpwj said:
If there was a distinction to be made about who said what, make it. Could you point out some posts that just gleefully shitposted, saying nothing more than JUST THE WORST without any other comment? Because I don't see any of that.
It's also rich to hear "whoa, whoa, ease up on the drama" when you said that folks were "pigs in shit" and "graceless bitches". I guess Twitter-style one-liners are more fun than actually talking. But whatever.
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Yeah I'm sure that's the reason D & D turned one of the most savvy and tactical people on the show and turned him into a bumbling mess. And not, you know, plot contrivances.
Again, still doesn't get us to where she suddenly has victory in her grasp and decides to commit genocide. The character had established for her a ruthless, power at all costs streak, not vindictive genocide toward her scared and cowering subjects.
She speaks of having to rule by fear, not laying waste to that which she would claim as hers by right.
Plus, this should be stickied at the top of every page, as it gets to the heart of why the characters are coming off so out of character and why people are having to come up with after-the-fact rationalizations to make sense of the abrupt shift.
Yes but there is zero reason for her to believe the people won't support her especially after everyone else in Westeros announced their support for her, no reason to believe anyone would believe Jon is the true heir or want to take Dany out for him to rule (bastard, Night Watch vow breaker, friend of wildlings, supported by a red priest like Stannis before him), and especially not after she manages to take the whole city on her own without killing a single civilian.
Did the writers support it? Yes, in a completely unbelievable manner.
People have been expecting Dany to turn into the mad queen or somesuch because it's the logical narrative conclusion to her character. Her father being the mad king, and her promising to end the cycle, break the wheel, be a better ruler, stop tyrants, etc. It's character writing 101. Will she be able to resist becoming what everyone around her are worried she could become?
The show sows seeds of her trying to rule justly and using violence as a last resort or in extreme cases, or as punishment to those that oppress the weak. Things go poorly for her time and time again because of this... but we never get the turn where she actually realizes it and starts finding out that tyranny is the easy out.
She show tries to set this up at the very last minute. And it's completely unearned. "So let it be fear" or whatever she says. They attempt it but the writing is not nuanced enough for me it to be believable.
In the end, her actions in this episode will likely be where the character will land but I expect far more work put into it. A longer slow burn on Dany's mental state and paranoia seeping in.
The show sows seeds of her trying to rule justly and using violence as a last resort or in extreme cases, or as punishment to those that oppress the weak. Things go poorly for her time and time again because of this... but we never get the turn where she actually realizes it and starts finding out that tyranny is the easy out.
She show tries to set this up at the very last minute. And it's completely unearned. "So let it be fear" or whatever she says. They attempt it but the writing is not nuanced enough for me it to be believable.
In the end, her actions in this episode will likely be where the character will land but I expect far more work put into it. A longer slow burn on Dany's mental state and paranoia seeping in.
I agree with that. If they knew this would be their time table, just have the Iron Islands be that faraway place where theons from.
Yeah I think a TV adaptation of a sprawling series like ASoIF needs to know the overall story before hand and make decisions on what to excise otherwise you end up with seasons 5-8. Euron honestly could have been completely cut from the show. He was ultimately a pointless lackey to Cersei to give her the appearance of being greater threat than she presented (and to serve as a character the audience can hate) than a character in his own right.
I'd argue the breaking point was when Jon rebuffed her, she felt completely alone and isolated. Nobody is loyal to her, nobody loves her, it's time to rule with fear only...because what else does she have?
She was arguing for genocide in like the next scene and her nod like she'd let the city surrender seemed completely fake. She went there intending to do what she did. The hesitation wasn't her snapping, it was her reconsidering her original plan IMO. Then she's looking over at where Cersei's chilling and goes "yeah, FUCK you!" and goes for it. And she didn't ignore Cersei she literally brought castle down on top of her.
Essos is not Westeros and slaves are not great houses. Of course a slave is going to welcome someone killing their masters and setting them free. The power structure of Westeros is completely different. And Sansa is basically the most powerful person outside of Dany or Jon at this point.
Yes it is. Dany is literally telling him that she isn't loved in Westeros, and that idiot Jon is like "None of that matters because you're my queen and I love you!" So Dany tries to kiss him and he pulls away, pretty much reinforcing the notion that no one will ever love her and that she must rule with fear because she can't trust anyone. Yup, good going Jon. Then Tyrion literally goes behind her back and tells the biggest loudmouth in Westeros about Jon's background, pretty much undermining her claim to the throne completely.
Which in turn goes back to Jon because for some reason he's so damn honest that he can't keep a secret from his sisters.
Shit, if I was in Dany's place, I'd roast half the city as well.
She obviously wasn't gonna be happy with what her character becomes. Lol. She loves Dany and even got dragon tattoos. Poor girl, you were loved.
Bro have we been watching the same show? Dany is a brutal killing machine who loses her temper and kills tons of people ALL THE FUCKING time.
She watched as her brother had molten gold poured on his head.
She burned the masters alive.
She crucified the masters in Myreen.
She locked the Dothraki in a hut and burned them alive.
She massacred the Masters entire fleet and then burned 2/3 of them alive to send a message.
She massacred the entire Lannister army in the field.
She burned the Tarlys alive instead of putting them in jail. She burned Varys alive for betraying her.
She's wanted to burn Kings Landing to the ground SEVERAL times and was only talked out of it by Tyrion who she no longer trusts.
Dany has been on the edge of being a total fucking psycho the entire show but she always had someone with her to hold her back. It was Jorah or Missandei or Tyrion or Dario or what have you. Up until now her homicidal temper has been mostly limited to people we all thought "deserved it".
We must be watching different shows fam.
You won't be able to convince me that its Jon's fault that Dany murdered all the civilians in Kings Landing. We will just have to agree to disagree.
I enjoy the show because I ignore the books and I allow the show writers to tell me a story without backseat driving it myself.
Others should try that.
Others should try that.
To be fair she got the tattoos after they had finished shooting.
She already went Fire & Blood at the end of ADWD. From what I can tell she is going to force the Dothrakis into submission, come back to Mereen and lay waste to the attackers, and be within an inch of burning every city in Essos into submission but lured to instead go to Westeros by people like Tyrion, Victarion and others who are looking to use her to settle their own differences home. And then eventually it blows up in their faces.
agree, but she proved that Sansa and Varys were right. And thats what you see on Tyrions face when he see shat she's doing, the look of "i've made a huge mistake"
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