Game of Thrones S8 |OT3| Best season evar. (FULL SPOILERS) (See Staff Post)

Dream Machine

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Oct 25, 2017
8,151
Maybe they should call them the 8 kingdoms now, unless the wildlings north of the wall are just northerners now. Also, maybe send some people up to see what's up in the far north now that there's no more undead threat or magical wall to stop you. In a post wall world, Westeros needs to work some things out after they kill this hysterical woman and put someone with a cock in charge.
 

Nothing Loud

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Oct 25, 2017
2,854
Something else that got a chuckle out of me. If Drogon’s fire breath had that much concussive force behind it, shouldn’t mowing the zombies with dragon fire have caused huge swaths of trenches to form? His fire breath was blowing up brick buildings, so I would imagine that where it hit on the ground would be cratered right? Maybe he has power level slider 🤔
It’s blowing up buildings because the temperature of the dragonflame is so hot it superheats the brick and causes it to explode. So it’s not like the flame is propelling with a high kinetic energy, it just has very high thermal energy.
 

Budi

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Oct 25, 2017
8,531
Finland
I didn't know there were only 6 episodes in S8 until a moment ago.
Really curious how they are going to give an end to that mess in 805.
That's what is most disappointing for me. I'm more bothered that there is no time left to deal with the aftermath properly, than the build up for it. Since for me Dany is right now more interesting character than she's ever been before. And also because Clarke has been really good imo, even though I've earlier disliked her work. I'd love to have more episodes, especially if it also ment the episodes would be longer as they now have been. It's such a bummer the show had to end, even though stretching shows don't usually lead to best results (neither does rushing). But GOT was already way beyond the point of ending at the top, so why not continue. I'd rather watch more D&D Game of Thrones than anything new Star Wars at this point.
This looks pretty cool and it's a damn shame GOT had such an interesting culmination and it lacked the ability to set it up properly and play with it's consequences. Dany's turn is, by far, the most interesting aspect of this show in the last few years and we will go straight to resolve it right away in the next ep.
Exactly :(
 
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Heshinsi

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Oct 25, 2017
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The gate kerploding out over the Golden Company was a bit much but knowing that dragon fire melts stone and brick I'm not too bothered about that. At least as far as the episode goes that's super far down the list of things I'm incredulous over.
Oh it’s not about what happened in KL, but more about what didn’t happen in Winterfell. If Dragon’s fire breath is that strong, than it should have been making massive trenches (which would have been a strategic element) into the ground when Jon and Dany were strafing about. Similar to what it was doing to the ice in beyond the wall.
 

Volimar

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Oct 25, 2017
10,025
Maybe they should call them the 8 kingdoms now, unless the wildlings north of the wall are just northerners now. Also, maybe send some people up to see what's up in the far north now that there's no more undead threat or magical wall to stop you. In a post wall world, Westeros needs to work some things out after they kill this hysterical woman and put someone with a cock in charge.

They probably are just northern non citizens like the hill tribes of the Vale. But who's to say that the other kingdoms are still all going to be around... Who will run Highgarden (probably not Bronn), and the Iron Islands were promised independence iirc when Yara offered Dany her fleet.
 

Yog-Sothoth

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Oct 1, 2018
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This looks pretty cool and it's a damn shame GOT had such an interesting culmination and it lacked the ability to set it up properly and play with it's consequences. Dany's turn is, by far, the most interesting aspect of this show in the last few years and we will go straight to resolve it right away in the next ep.
But you don't understand. 73 is the magic number
 

The Silver

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Oct 28, 2017
4,467
So what is the deal with Bronn, what the hell is he gonna do?

Tyrion's lucky if he doesn't get executed and even then why the fuck would Dany give him anything? He shot at Drogon.

Bronn might as well just stay north and start wheeling around Bran at this rate.
 
OP
OP
shira

shira

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Oct 25, 2017
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They probably are just northern non citizens like the hill tribes of the Vale. But who's to say that the other kingdoms are still all going to be around... Who will run Highgarden (probably not Bronn), and the Iron Islands were promised independence iirc when Yara offered Dany her fleet.
Bronn has so much frigging plot armor and marketing team shields . . .
Seemed almost the same to me. Could also be the temperature in the north. They said the dragons weren't doing so well up there.
And Viserion's fire did blow up a tower in WInterfell.
Does outdoor temperature affect fire?
 

BossAttack

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Oct 27, 2017
14,904
at this point i think the most likely ending is that
the seven kingdoms are broken up into smaller autonomous states
That would make zero sense, especially in the books. That's how things used to be and it wasn't great. As much as the other Lords hate it, the Targaryen dynasty brought a lasting peace to Westeros. Yes, there were still wars. But, the wars were less than when the Kingdoms were divided. Beforehand, the Kingdoms were constantly at war with each other. There was almost never a time when one kingdom wasn't at war with another. To revert back to such chaos does not seem like something the books are heading towards.
 
Nov 6, 2017
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Los Angeles
Can someone remind me about book version Bran's capabilities? Because I quite frankly dislike creatures and people with essentially godlike powers in a setting like that. While I've read the books I've kinda forgotten what exactly happened to Bran so far, though I guess he didn't develop/get powers like show Bran yet or I would have remembered.
In the books:

He can warg any living thing including human beings. He can even warg groups of living things like ravens.

If he dies, he can take over someone's body and live as that animal or person as a second life.

An extended lifespan.

Use the weirwoods to go back in time and see things or see anything anywhere in the present through the trees although the Three Eyed Crow says in time he'll be able to see beyond the trees themselves.

He's potentially able to take free will away. There's a point in the books where he reaches out to Hodor and tells him to be quiet after he's running around screaming. He accidentally wargs into him at that moment but then leaves him just as quickly and Hodor stays quiet unable to talk. So he might have the equivalent of the One Ring.

He'll be a god-like being in the books too though:

"The bleeding star bespoke the end," he said to Aeron. "These are the last days, when the world shall be broken and remade. A new god shall be born from the graves and charnel pits."
"Dragons and darker things," said Leo. "The grey sheep have closed their eyes, but the mastiff sees the truth. Old powers waken. Shadows stir. An age of wonder and terror will soon be upon us, an age for gods and heroes."
"A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies," said Jojen. "The man who never reads lives only one. The singers of the forest had no books. No ink, no parchment, no written language. Instead they had the trees, and the weirwoods above all. When they died, they went into the wood, into leaf and limb and root, and the trees remembered. All their songs and spells, their histories and prayers, everything they knew about this world. Maesters will tell you that the weirwoods are sacred to the old gods. The singers believe they are the old gods. When singers die they become part of that godhood."
The weirwoods are the old gods and Bloodraven and Bran are hooked into them.

"Most of him has gone into the tree," explained the singer Meera called Leaf. "He has lived beyond his mortal span, and yet he lingers. For us, for you, for the realms of men. Only a little strength remains in his flesh. He has a thousand eyes and one, but there is much to watch. One day you will know."

"What will I know?" Bran asked the Reeds afterward, when they came with torches burning brightly in their hand, to carry him back to a small chamber off the big cavern where the singers had made beds for them to sleep. "What do the trees remember?"
"Your blood makes you a greenseer," said Lord Brynden. "This will help awaken your gifts and wed you to the trees."

Bran did want to be married to a tree … but who else would wed a broken boy like him? A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees. A greenseer.

He ate.
If you read GRRM's other stories, humans becoming gods (not in the divine sense) are a subject that's fascinated with along with memory, identity, psychics, moral flexibility and hiveminds.
 

Surfinn

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Oct 25, 2017
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Are we really debating the strength and physical properties of the fire from the dragon now and how it might impact bricks lol.. let's not overthink this

Also, how do we feel about Jon telling his secret to Arya/Sansa?
 

♡♪!?

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Oct 25, 2017
2,880
Didn't Dany start feeding random noblemen to her dragon in series 5 because some of then, might... might have been conspiring against her.

To ne honest I think she was always a bit fucked up and often chose the most aggressive action before thinking it through, the attempt to abolish slavery by crucifying masters turned into botched mess, that she had to create 1 year slave contracts, and bring back fighting pits. And this temper escaleted when her best friends and two of her children' were killed, one of her advisors didn't trust her and when she got pummeled trying to do the honorable ways that Tyrion had suggested. I think next episode Dany might have a realisation moment, that the throne wasn't worth the fear she was trying to install.
 
Nov 6, 2017
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Are bastard based on where they’re born or to whom they are born? Because Jon Snow wasn’t born in the North right (Ned’s Official story)? So then Bran shouldn’t be calling Jon by the Sand surname.
It's ambiguous. There's no hard and fast rules about it. If you're born in the North but raised in Dorne by your Dornish father, then you could be called Heshinsi Sand rather than Heshinsi Snow.

Oberyn's bastard daughters are called Sand despite them not all being born in Dorne.
 

Psychoward

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Nov 7, 2017
14,514
Are we really debating the strength and physical properties of the fire from the dragon now and how it might impact bricks lol.. let's not overthink this

Also, how do we feel about Jon telling his secret to Arya/Sansa?
Makes sense for his character. Even if he only told Arya, Sansa would probably hear about it eventually and be even more pissed.

Sansa trying to force Jon to be king afterwards by leaking it was mad dumb.
 

Mirage

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Oct 25, 2017
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They didn't even need to respawn the army after episode 3 all Dany needed was one good dragon.
 

Zefah

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Oct 25, 2017
5,384
Are we really debating the strength and physical properties of the fire from the dragon now and how it might impact bricks lol.. let's not overthink this

Also, how do we feel about Jon telling his secret to Arya/Sansa?
All I know is it was cheap as hell to not show how they reacted.
 

Volimar

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Oct 25, 2017
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To be fair, maybe Ned wanted to tell the secret but he felt honorbound by Lyanna's wishes. He did tell Jon they'd speak of his mother the next time they met.
 

Jecht

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Oct 25, 2017
2,394
For those talking about how much of an army she has left, if you go through the painstaking process of counting these rows, there are about 60 in each row. If each row is about as long, and maybe goes past the camera and what we see a bit.... I count 32 rows total? But we can pretend there are a few more than we see, even though we see ruins to left and right blocking more from lining up. This is 3000 left at tops, if we're generous. That seems a lot less crazy since she started with 10,000.
I think its more an issue of them not accurately showing the size of the armies in previous episodes rather than the actual numbers she has left.

To be fair, maybe Ned wanted to tell the secret but he felt honorbound by Lyanna's wishes. He did tell Jon they'd speak of his mother the next time they met.
Which makes sense since once he took the Black he would have given up his claim by default.
 

Zen

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Nov 1, 2017
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She has been teetering between terrible person and benevolent savior the whole show. The bells was her moment to decide who she wanted to be. She decided to be the former, knowing people would never accept her as the latter. It's just that people weren't forced to come face to face with her brutality without room for rationalization before now, so it came as a shock. Before we were always given a more pleasant perspective to view her character through.
 
Nov 6, 2017
6,243
Los Angeles
Something else that got a chuckle out of me. If Drogon’s fire breath had that much concussive force behind it, shouldn’t mowing the zombies with dragon fire have caused huge swaths of trenches to form? His fire breath was blowing up brick buildings, so I would imagine that where it hit on the ground would be cratered right? Maybe he has power level slider 🤔
In GRRM's original idea for Daenerys, she had powers like Bran Stark except she had access to pyrokinesis.

Imagine Daenerys running around King's Landing going full Azula:



 

Surfinn

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Oct 25, 2017
18,162
USA
Makes sense for his character. Even if he only told Arya, Sansa would probably hear about it eventually and be even more pissed.

Sansa trying to force Jon to be king afterwards by leaking it was mad dumb.
No I mean, do you think the right thing to do would be to keep it to yourself forever (hypothetically if EP5 hadn't happened yet)?
All I know is it was cheap as hell to not show how they reacted.
I really wanted to see this too
To be fair, maybe Ned wanted to tell the secret but he felt honorbound by Lyanna's wishes. He did tell Jon they'd speak of his mother the next time they met.
That's true, but he also promised to protect Jon. Telling Jon the truth puts him in immediate danger and brings undue stress and complications into his life. I think he would have told Jon some smaller details, but nothing about the big truth he swore to protect.
 

Surfinn

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Oct 25, 2017
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To make Tyrion idiotically believe Cersei would make the right, benevolent choice.

Twice.

Hack writing.
Honestly, I don't mind Tryion failing over and over with Dany. Dany was going to do what she wanted regardless; no one was going to succeed in keeping her from doing what she wanted. This was outright stated to the viewer in her conversation with Olenna. However.. there's no excuse for constantly misreading Cersei in that context. Was very out of character.
 

NaDannMaGoGo

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Oct 25, 2017
1,608
In the books:

He can warg any living thing including human beings. He can even warg groups of living things like ravens.

If he dies, he can take over someone's body and live as that animal or person as a second life.

An extended lifespan.

Use the weirwoods to go back in time and see things or see anything anywhere in the present through the trees although the Three Eyed Crow says in time he'll be able to see beyond the trees themselves.

He's potentially able to take free will away. There's a point in the books where he reaches out to Hodor and tells him to be quiet after he's running around screaming. He accidentally wargs into him at that moment but then leaves him just as quickly and Hodor stays quiet unable to talk. So he might have the equivalent of the One Ring.

He'll be a god-like being in the books too though:







The weirwoods are the old gods and Bloodraven and Bran are hooked into them.





If you read GRRM's other stories, humans becoming gods (not in the divine sense) are a subject that's fascinated with along with memory, identity, psychics, moral flexibility and hiveminds.
Aye, thank you!

If he does end up getting all-seeing powers, in particular ones which allow him to see or predict future outcomes to a tee, I'm sure interested if GRRM can write and use him in a fashion I find appealing. Show-Bran is obviously sidelined because D&D have enough troubles writing without including his powers.

That said, I dislike prophecies anyway, in part because it makes the world seem deterministic and easily readable, and ASOIAF is obviously filled to the brim with those.
 

Zefah

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Oct 25, 2017
5,384
She has been teetering between terrible person and benevolent savior the whole show. The bells was her moment to decide who she wanted to be. She decided to be the former, knowing people would never accept her as the latter. It's just that people weren't forced to come face to face with her brutality without room for rationalization before now, so it came as a shock. Before we were always given a more pleasant perspective to view her character through.
I really do not buy this perspective at all.

She has never went out of her way to kill innocents. Quite the opposite in fact.

She even delayed her quest to reclaim Westeros out of a desire to save more innocents.

She's just never been portrayed to be the kind of person who would indiscriminately slaughter people for no good reason.
 

BossAttack

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Oct 27, 2017
14,904
Can someone remind me about book version Bran's capabilities? Because I quite frankly dislike creatures and people with essentially godlike powers in a setting like that. While I've read the books I've kinda forgotten what exactly happened to Bran so far, though I guess he didn't develop/get powers like show Bran yet or I would have remembered.
What you have to understand is the show has never cared for the supernatural elements or lore in the books like religion. To the North the Old Gods are their religion, represented by their Weirwood trees. What we learn in ADWD is that the Old Gods appear to b Greenseers who "see" through these Weirwood trees. This also explains why the Children of the Forest were so angry with the First Men for chopping down their Weirwood trees, but also makes you understand why the First Men did it in the first place. Their seers can literally spy on people through Weirwood trees.

We are only just beginning to understand Bran's power in the books, but the time manipulation is the most intriguing part. Bloodraven states that Bran can't change the past or speak to people in the past, at best they hear a faint voice in the wind they can't make out. A VERY curious statement since people talk all the time about how the Weirwood trees seem like they are saying something when they are near them. But, in the second book we know that Bran seemed to have a conversation with Jon, but Jon thought it was a dream.


In any case, this leads to theories like that Bran (and all seers) are actually the Gods. The Old Gods, The Lord of Light, the Black Goat of Qohor, the Drowned God, whatever; it's all Bran and other powerful seers. But, people call them different names and attribute different aspects to them. But, who knows how much of that theory is true.

Here's Jon Snow (knowingly warging into Ghost) having a "dream" about Bran:

ACOK said:
A weirwood.

It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother's face. Had his brother always had three eyes?

Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.

He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

Don't be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him.

And suddenly he was back in the mountains, his paws sunk deep in a drift of snow as he stood upon the edge of a great precipice. Before him the Skirling Pass opened up into airy emptiness, and a long vee-shaped valley lay spread beneath him like a quilt, awash in all the colors of an autumn afternoon.
What's important here is that this happens BEFORE Bran ever met Bloodraven/3ER. This is when Jon first goes North of the Wall with Qhorin Halfhand.
 

vogelkacke

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Oct 28, 2017
965
Honestly, I don't mind Tryion failing over and over with Dany. Dany was going to do what she wanted regardless; no one was going to succeed in keeping her from doing what she wanted. This was outright stated to the viewer in her conversation with Olenna. However.. there's no excuse for constantly misreading Cersei in that context. Was very out of character.
But he did succeed, she wanted to attack KL, he convinced her not to. Same with all his other stupid plans.
 

Heshinsi

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Oct 25, 2017
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Edmonton
The way I see it, the justification works, as long as her actions follow it. And the realest action here would have been for her to try and execute Jon to strengthen her claim.

Woulda been a hell of a storyline. How would Tyrion, Varys, Davos, Grey Worm, etc. react?
With both Tyrion and Dany having just one brain cell working between the two of them, they missed how illogical it is to worry that anyone can actually put Jon on the throne if they tried to. Dany has the Unsullied, Dothraki, and a dragon. But she also has Yara Greyjoy who wouldn’t give two shits about Jon’s claim. But most importantly as it was established in episode 4, she now once again has the support of Dorne and its untouched armies. The Dornish do not strike me as being interested to crown the son of the woman Ellia Martell was abandoned for by Rheagar. So it’s highly unlikely they would support Jon over Dany.

That’s enough power to effectively crown anyone ruler of the seven kingdoms. Dany has got to be insane (hilarious in its onset) because no one would do what she did as a calculated move. No one.
 

Psychoward

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Nov 7, 2017
14,514
No I mean, do you think the right thing to do would be to keep it to yourself forever (hypothetically if EP5 hadn't happened yet)?

I really wanted to see this too

That's true, but he also promised to protect Jon. Telling Jon the truth puts him in immediate danger and brings undue stress and complications into his life. I think he would have told Jon some smaller details, but nothing about the big truth he swore to protect.
I think ultimately there's no right choice and it's really up to how he feels about it.

He was never considered a stark by blood anyway so in a way it doesn't matter as much if they thought he was cat's child too.