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Game of Thrones S8 |OT3| My watch has ended. (FULL SPOILERS) (See Staff Post)

Zen

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,056
Why is Daenerys ruling bad?
It completely undermines the messaging about monarchy and power seekers, which is arguably something that has always been consistent throughout the seasons. A happy fairytale ending where a just monarch rules the 7 kingdoms with her lover is fan fiction made manifest.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,544
It completely undermines the messaging about monarchy and power seekers, which is arguably something that has always been consistent throughout the seasons. A happy fairytale ending where a just monarch rules the 7 kingdoms with her lover is fan fiction made manifest.
i don't think it should be 100% happy, there should be peace at the end with a cost
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,638
Tough to say, Book Jon has no qualms lying. But, I suspect Book Jon's resurrection will cause a deeper change in his character. He's not going to shrug it off like the show.
I keep hearing people say though that Jon’s mind didn’t really die since he just warged into ghost. So I don’t know if he’s going to exhibit a big change, then again I’m not a book reader so what do I know.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,738
Tough to say, Book Jon has no qualms lying. But, I suspect Book Jon's resurrection will cause a deeper change in his character. He's not going to shrug it off like the show.
I always felt like the fact that he got resurrected was shrugged off super quick in the show, he just picked up where he left off. Granted the show never made it a point to make a big deal out of it like Dondarion who despite saying he comes back weaker every time, never shows it. He even got infinite pine resin out of the whole thing which seemed like a pretty swell deal.

Him being dead in the books but alive in the show probably explains why he just kinda hangs around and never seemed to do anything, he is a D&D creation through and through.
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,528
The Seven Kingdoms are fuuuuuucked no matter who rules. If it's Dany then, oh boy. Inc lots of people burning. If it's Jon then he won't be able to rule anyone, he'll get betrayed every 2 seconds. Dude has too much Ned in him.

Might as well just go back to there actually being Seven Kingdoms and not more Iron Throne.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,544
Well considering she is capable of genocide when things don't go her way I think that is a pretty bad look for a potential monarch.
i'm in agreement with the super long OP of that other thread where her capability and committing genocide was just to make the audience hate her. she was never like that before
 
OP
OP
shira

shira

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,488
https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/15/ente...game-of-thrones-mental-health-trnd/index.html
It gets to a point where you're almost craving something negative, so you can just sit in a hole of sadness
I still lie in bed at, like, 11 o'clock at night telling myself all the things I hate about myself
Wow did not know Sophie and Maisie suffered through depression in the making of GoT. I know the Joffrey actor quit acting.

Honestly, I want a normal life. I don't want any of this crazy, crazy world because it's not worth it.
source: http://www.officialfearnecotton.com/news/2018/2/26/happy-place-podcast
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,622
Sweden
So the betting odds of Jon being on the Iron Throne must have multiplied since last week. Right?
are you tryna say that jon becoming king has become a more likely or less likely possibility? the higher the odds for X, the LESS likely X is to happen

(high odds mean you'd get a lot of money back on a successful bet, because you're betting on an outcome that was deemed as unlikely)
 
i'm in agreement with the super long OP of that other thread where her capability and committing genocide was just to make the audience hate her. she was never like that before
She was always like that before. She always had within her the ability to do bad things. There were hints and foreshadowing going as far back as Season 2 as to who she was and where she was headed. Her recent hardships, family heritage, and lack of any advisers to check her worst impulses finally led to her going over the edge completely.

The main problem is that D&D wrote themselves into a hole and forced themselves to rush everything which led to them butchering the execution of the Mad Queen plotline.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,544
She was always like that before. She always had within her the ability to do bad things. There were hints and foreshadowing going as far back as Season 2 as to who she was and where she was headed. Her recent hardships, family heritage, and lack of any advisers to check her worst impulses finally led to her going over the edge completely.

The main problem is that D&D wrote themselves into a hole and forced themselves to rush everything which led to them butchering the execution of the Mad Queen plotline.
this thread has talked to death about hints and foreshadowing of Dany going mad and while she had a temper she never hurt someone innocent and on the contrary always showed remorse for them and fought for them and injustice against them is what motivated her
 
this thread has talked to death about hints and foreshadowing of Dany going mad and while she had a temper she never hurt someone innocent and on the contrary always showed remorse for them and fought for them and injustice against them is what motivated her
This was posted a few pages back and covers your concerns better than I could.




Dany always had the ability to do evil things, but since she was only hurting those who "deserved it" in the eyes of the readers/viewers we were willing to look past it and not see it for what it was.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,641
Maybe it's because I never fully got on the hype train with this show, and so didn't have huge expectations for the finale to begin with, but I've still found the finale fairly enjoyable and nothing that's happened has been particularly shocking really in terms of "twists"

I'm not seeing the hate for this episode or season really :/
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,903
are you tryna say that jon becoming king has become a more likely or less likely possibility? the higher the odds for X, the LESS likely X is to happen

(high odds mean you'd get a lot of money back on a successful bet, because you're betting on an outcome that was deemed as unlikely)
Ah sorry, meant it the other way. I mean, the likelihood of Jon getting the throne must have gone up. So too has the likelihood of him dying.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,221
This was posted a few pages back and covers your concerns better than I could.




Dany always had the ability to do evil things, but since she was only hurting those who "deserved it" in the eyes of the readers/viewers we were willing to look past it and not see it for what it was.
Why are you using the book to make your point, the crux of the criticisms is that the show has been utterly terrible about leading Dany to a point where she'd believably commit genocide.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,638
I don’t what to watch now when Thrones ends. Why couldn’t they just expand S7 to 10 episodes. Finish the whole white walkers storyline there, then dedicate the entirety of S8 on Daenerys going bad. Whatever. They can’t fuck it up even more, can they?
 
Why are you using the book to make your point, the crux of the criticisms is that the show has been utterly terrible about leading Dany to a point where she'd believably commit genocide.
Because the logic applies here as well. Dany has been crucifying, burning, and killing people by feeding them to her dragons on and off for the better part of 8 seasons now. But since most of the people she did it to were "bad guys" some people never really saw it as a red flag. But it should have been. It shows she always had the ability to do evil things to other people. Just because they "deserved it" doesn't make it any less disturbing.

And once again I will say that yes they rushed it all and yes they butchered the execution of her mentally unraveling, but the foreshadowing of what she was under the surface when she met with resistance has been there for a long time. The only difference this time was that the people she killed weren't as guilty as those she had killed previously and this time she did it on a much larger scale.
 
Oct 28, 2017
625
So, I finally saw the episode last night and well...it wasn't that bad. Like, let's make petition to redo the whole thing bad, lol.

I enjoyed it more than episodes 3 and 4, because I felt like the story lines / character arcs this one ended had at least somewhat satisfactory conclusions (when compared to ep. 3 and 4) and I didn't register that much of the usual dumbness (like stealth fleets with sniper ballistae or characters using fast travel) that has been an issue with the show in the last seasons. And it did look and sound gorgeous many times.

I have no issues with Mad Dany. I get it could have used a bit more time, but she has had her whole self image built on her being the rightful ruler, loved by The People and the mother of dragonS. All these save for one dragon has been stripped away and she defaulted to the ways of every other dictator (and she always was one) whom the The People just don't understand.

(Haven't read the books btw)
 
Even from book 1/season 1 I thought Jon Snow was gonna be a very important character and likely someway, somehow become the King. I remember seeing some section alluding to it. But based on how his character has developed, and I don't think it's unreasonable that he is acting the way he is based on his death experience and resurrection, that he doesn't think he is suited to become king. He couldn't even manage one faction of peoples let alone the entire 7 kingdoms.

So I predict he will decide that all the slaughter over controlling the 7 kingdoms, and the destruction of king's landing, that it isn't worth rebuilding so as others mentioned there won't be a central governing body any longer. This sets up for spin offs taking place in westeros but who knows how that'd look. Seems like so many of the ruling class are dead but I guess it could look forward some 20 years in the future when things are a bit more stable.
 
Oct 27, 2017
622
I would have had Jamie reach Cersei and try to negotiate her surrender while Lannister soldiers are being slaughtered. Cersei rejects this. Dragon is wounded by a bolt shortly after Jamie arrives and this gives Cersei false hope. Drogon lands on a child and onlooking enraged civilians begin pelting Dany and her dragon with rocks after a brief quiet stare down.

Annoyed with Cersei and knowing she is losing, Jamie rings the bells himself. A moment of silence passes before you see a burst of dragon fire from afar. Unsullied rush in to the keep led by Grey Worm and murder Cersei by ramming their spears through her stomach. Jamie watches horrified before they shove him from the bell tower.

Cleganebowl is abruptly ended as the brothers fall to Dany’s army despite putting up a good fight. North men retreat with Jon. You never see Dany or Drogon again, just the sound of Dany screaming “kill them all” and Drogon’s screeching fire. Kings landing isn’t destroyed. Dany didn’t fly around killing without cause, but she walks away changed all the same.

Thats my awful fan fiction and I honestly feel it would have made more sense while bringing us to the same point of Mad queen Dany. It also saves Jamie’s arc for me but I’m a nobody so take it for what you will. I still love the show and feel the amount of negativity it is getting is a display of how unhealthy the fandom is surrounding it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,221
She didn't commit genocide.
O k

Because the logic applies here as well. Dany has been crucifying, burning, and killing people by feeding them to her dragons on and off for the better part of 8 seasons now. But since most of the people she did it to were "bad guys" some people never really saw it as a red flag. But it should have been. It shows she always had the ability to do evil things to other people. Just because they "deserved it" doesn't make it any less disturbing.

And once again I will say that yes they rushed it all and yes they butchered the execution of her mentally unraveling, but the foreshadowing of what she was under the surface when she met with resistance has been there for a long time. The only difference this time was that the people she killed weren't as guilty as those she had killed previously and this time she did it on a much larger scale.
I just don't see the point of using the books to try and defend the show's missteps.

Anyhow, foreshadowing isn't some free pass, the show still has to put in the groundwork to make the audience genuinely believe that she was capable of something that horrific and illogical. Unfortunately, it failed completely in that regard.

The only difference this time was that the people she killed weren't as guilty as those she had killed previously and this time she did it on a much larger scale.
Calling it the "only difference" trivializes what she did. Despite having clearly won the battle, she willingly went out of her way to murder countless innocent lives. And like others have pointed out, she weirdly made herself busy doing that when at the very least she should've targeted the Red Keep first. Instead she takes her time getting around to doing that. So not only was her actions unearned, but they're idiotic as well.

There were so many ways to go about this, yet somehow the show manages to pick the worst one.
 
I just don't see the point of using the books to try and defend the show's missteps.

Anyhow, foreshadowing isn't some free pass, the show still has to put in the groundwork to make the audience genuinely believe that she was capable of something that horrific and illogical. Unfortunately, it failed completely in that regard.
On the second part I agree. It was rushed and poorly executed, but since I knew it was coming it was not at all that shocking to me. I've always known Mad Dany was in the cards and I had always figured that when things went bad they would go REALLY bad. The show's gratuitous focus on the violence was actually more surprising to me than the fact she was committing it.


Since I was expecting it to happen I didn't get nearly as caught off guard and upset as alot of other people. I think that's why I was still able to enjoy the episode as much as I did.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,468
I mean, technically speaking if you want to split hairs if someone isn't killing a bunch of people because of their ethnicity then it's technically not genocide. But that's splitting hairs and mass slaughter takes more letters.

On the second part I agree. It was rushed and poorly executed, but since I knew it was coming it was not at all that shocking to me. I've always known Mad Dany was in the cards and I had always figured that when things went bad they would go REALLY bad. The show's gratuitous focus on the violence was actually more surprising to me than the fact she was committing it.


Since I was expecting it to happen I didn't get nearly as caught off guard and upset as alot of other people. I think that's why I was still able to enjoy the episode as much as I did.
Oh, come on after episode 4 most people knew we would get some form of Mad Queen Dany. Doesn't make it well developed. I figured we'd get it after episode 3, tbh. I also kinda figured that that was a likely plot point since the beginning of the series. Just not like that.
 
The Brazilian channel "Quatro Coisas" did a good work on why Daenerys had this 180º. turn. Basically he said "Since Daenerys departed from Essos, she thought that the kingdom would receive her with the arms wide open, and that clearly wasn't the case. During her time, she lost her nearest people and even sons and was betrayed many times during that time. Knowing that she isn't even the real heir of the throne was too much for her, and even when she was rejected as a woman let her in a disturbed mental state. She then declared that if she couldn't be loved, the she would be feared and then they would eventually broke the wheel that she said in the past."

I'm not saying that I agree, but at least I can understand his point. On spoiler it's the video - in Portuguese and it's pretty easy to follow if you unserstand spanish well.

 
Oct 25, 2017
22,397
Via the ASOFAI forums via Reddit there's another old post that called this that leads one to suspect that a big problem with the plot is indeed that cut book 5 character, for reasons other than that merging him and Jon doesn't make sense. https://preview.redd.it/acmxjb0wkgy...bp&s=209f3b442f386857dde5f767e79ab32b68712754
If Aegon is the one to defeat Cersei, not Dany, it completely trainwrecks Dany's path to the Iron Throne. Given that "Mother of Dragons, Slayer of Lies" is a thing in the Book 2 stuff, maybe that's actually how it goes down - we may be missing a battle where Cersei goes down before the finale, where everyone bands together to beat the undead, and then Dany goes and invades her former allies ruled by a decent kid, causing all the moral conflict talked about in S8E1-5 to suddenly make a lot more sense..