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Game of Thrones S8 |OT3| Best season evar. (FULL SPOILERS) (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter Deleted member 2802
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Characters grow and change.Remember when this was Tyrion:
Now he's all about the Geneva Conventions and getting his own allies killed.
Have we ever seen Dany lose so much that personally meant to her so quickly? Followed by how alone and betrayed she felt by literally everyone around her. I agree with Emilia that it's less genetic madness and moreso someone with a dragon being pushed their to absolute limit mentally.
I do love how they've completely changed the nature of the 3ER into unemotional history books when they are clearly NOT that in the novels.
D&D kinda forgot that Yara exists.
I was really expecting Cersei to have some sort of plan, too. We see wildfire explosions all over the city so I guess there was some trap in place but they were just crushed by Drogon who used Agility and it was super effective.
Cleganebowl was at least a +
Cleganebowl was at least a +
That moment when you realize Griffith was more justified in his actions than Dany O_O. (He even had a smaller body count than her...)
This is such a bad take to me and not at all what the show was saying. Dany realized that she was not going to get the love of the houses of Westeros. That the leader of the North would not marry her to put the love he has from people with hers to fill in the gap for what she was not getting from the people of Westeros. People boiling it down to Dany being rejected by a man so she killed thousands of people are really stretching to paint the show in a bad light and ignoring all of the character work they have done.
Slept on it. Dreamt that Dany didn't kill hundreds of civilians for no reason and became the kind, wonderful Queen Westeros needed, ushering in an era of peace. Jon stood by her side as her supportive, platonic husband or whatever. Then I woke up. Still mad. Mostly sad.
There was obviously always some darkness in Dany, like there is in every character on this show. Dany was born in darkness, on the run her whole life with only her abusive brother to keep her company until she finally found a way to break free from being a victim. So it's not surprising that when she began to feel backed into a corner, losing her loved ones, feeling isolated and rejected by the world, she'd feel the urge to do anything to prevent ending up in that dark place again. But the hope was always that she would overcome that darkness rather than succumb to it.
The "mad queen" bus came for her hard in the last 2 episodes, which is pretty much the worst end I could've imagined for my favorite character. And while I know it was a culmination of shit piling up that provoked her rage, I certainly wasn't expecting a FUCKING BELL to be the last thing that pushed her overboard. Dany's always been fierce and unforgiving toward her enemies, but I always believed in her goodness, in her determination to fight for the weak and innocent. I know she had good intentions when she came to Westeros and that becoming her father was the last thing she ever wanted, so it's all just very depressing...
I know some people like to say the show's been shit for a while but I pretty much still loved it until the last 2 episodes blindsided me. Can't imagine any ending that'll satisfy me and not make me look back on the show with bitter resentment now.
There was obviously always some darkness in Dany, like there is in every character on this show. Dany was born in darkness, on the run her whole life with only her abusive brother to keep her company until she finally found a way to break free from being a victim. So it's not surprising that when she began to feel backed into a corner, losing her loved ones, feeling isolated and rejected by the world, she'd feel the urge to do anything to prevent ending up in that dark place again. But the hope was always that she would overcome that darkness rather than succumb to it.
The "mad queen" bus came for her hard in the last 2 episodes, which is pretty much the worst end I could've imagined for my favorite character. And while I know it was a culmination of shit piling up that provoked her rage, I certainly wasn't expecting a FUCKING BELL to be the last thing that pushed her overboard. Dany's always been fierce and unforgiving toward her enemies, but I always believed in her goodness, in her determination to fight for the weak and innocent. I know she had good intentions when she came to Westeros and that becoming her father was the last thing she ever wanted, so it's all just very depressing...
I know some people like to say the show's been shit for a while but I pretty much still loved it until the last 2 episodes blindsided me. Can't imagine any ending that'll satisfy me and not make me look back on the show with bitter resentment now.
I think some of you are being way too rough on this episode.
It had solid ideas, but similar to The Long Night, it just failed to execute them in a smarter, more satisfying way.
1. Dany going mad has been foreshadowed for like 4 fkn seasons. It was largely her advisers that kept her in check this entire time. Even in Essos. Not sure why everyone is saying she was character assassinated. The whole breaker of chains, breaking the wheel, dany will save us all aspect of her character has been gone for a WHILE. The issue with this episode is she went mad with seemingly no logical trigger. Missandei died last episode. She got the surrender of the city. Why did she snap then? Once again, good idea, bad execution.
2. Jamie's character. I agree he needed more conflict with Cersei but it has been abundantly clear he still loves her. That has ALWAYS been a part of his character. I think he should have made it to her sooner or at the very least had some sort of conflict with her. I mean hell, the entire point of him going to KL was to try and convince her to give up/run away. Him dying embraced with her is fine. He just needed much more payoff. I think people are just upset the queenslayer theory didn't come true.
3. Arya makes perfect sense. She has been on a revenge tour since Bravos. The Hound and Aryas arc finally culminates. She learns to stop being obsessed with revenge. She tries to help the innocents. She was used as a prop to show the KL suffering this episode and thats fine. Because it seems the show is setting up a confrontation with her and Dany.
4. Cleganebowl. It was dope. Just needed to be longer imo.
5. Varys dying. Makes perfect sense for Dany's character. Yes, Tyrion failed her but Varys was the one planning actual treason against her.
I think the only dumb parts of this episode was Euron, the crossbows being innefective (But that is honestly largely only because of how stupid they were last episode) and the lack of Bran/Winterfell stuff. One of Bran's visions came true. He spent his life trying to save the people against the long night but is ok with Dany torching tens of thousands of innocents. I'd also like to think Tyrion and Brans off screen conversation is going to lead to something more interesting. Sansa needed some screen time this episode as well.
It had solid ideas, but similar to The Long Night, it just failed to execute them in a smarter, more satisfying way.
1. Dany going mad has been foreshadowed for like 4 fkn seasons. It was largely her advisers that kept her in check this entire time. Even in Essos. Not sure why everyone is saying she was character assassinated. The whole breaker of chains, breaking the wheel, dany will save us all aspect of her character has been gone for a WHILE. The issue with this episode is she went mad with seemingly no logical trigger. Missandei died last episode. She got the surrender of the city. Why did she snap then? Once again, good idea, bad execution.
2. Jamie's character. I agree he needed more conflict with Cersei but it has been abundantly clear he still loves her. That has ALWAYS been a part of his character. I think he should have made it to her sooner or at the very least had some sort of conflict with her. I mean hell, the entire point of him going to KL was to try and convince her to give up/run away. Him dying embraced with her is fine. He just needed much more payoff. I think people are just upset the queenslayer theory didn't come true.
3. Arya makes perfect sense. She has been on a revenge tour since Bravos. The Hound and Aryas arc finally culminates. She learns to stop being obsessed with revenge. She tries to help the innocents. She was used as a prop to show the KL suffering this episode and thats fine. Because it seems the show is setting up a confrontation with her and Dany.
4. Cleganebowl. It was dope. Just needed to be longer imo.
5. Varys dying. Makes perfect sense for Dany's character. Yes, Tyrion failed her but Varys was the one planning actual treason against her.
I think the only dumb parts of this episode was Euron, the crossbows being innefective (But that is honestly largely only because of how stupid they were last episode) and the lack of Bran/Winterfell stuff. One of Bran's visions came true. He spent his life trying to save the people against the long night but is ok with Dany torching tens of thousands of innocents. I'd also like to think Tyrion and Brans off screen conversation is going to lead to something more interesting. Sansa needed some screen time this episode as well.
He's made a lot of mistakes since but he isn't about that vengeance scorched earth life anymore. I'd say that's growth.
I think everything that needs to be said about this episode has been said, but I just want to add that the Jamie-Tyrion conversation this episode hit me so damn hard.
I think the outline for this was there and just not filled in enough at all. But just to try to be nice to the showrunners, they do show Dany making a lot of pretty hardcore tyrannical decisions. (Remember when she was like "hi Sam btw sorry I burned your family to death for not swearing their undying loyalty to me 5 min after I showed up haha good chat). It's hard because I assume in the books we'll get some kind of moment where we get "out" of Dany's POV and see that a lot of her decisions in her POV chapters were far less heroic than we thought, like how she handled Meeren, the slavers, etc. But in the show they've been doing her POV and mixing in bits where we go "why did she burn those people", just maybe not with enough of a critical lens to fully prep for her burning King's Landing.
Then again, D&D love TWISTS so maybe they thought it would be better if it came out of nowhere, who knows
Anyone else feel like the battle with Cersei should have happened before the one with the nightwalkers?
One thing just occurred to me - I've been loyally watching this show from day one and yet absolutely none of the character deaths this season so far have had any emotional impact on me whatsoever. Maybe because I've been just expecting them all to die? I dunno, but none of them have been surprising. When Jaime died in the last episode my reaction was basically "hmm." Though that was because I thought the framing of his and Cersei's deaths was pretty lame.
Actually, scratch that, Qyborn's sudden death caught me off guard and was pretty hysterical.
Actually, scratch that, Qyborn's sudden death caught me off guard and was pretty hysterical.
Speaking of forgotten characters, I can't believe we haven't seen Lord Howland Reed in the present. Not once.
She's been amazing for most of the season. Her face when she was looking at the Red Keep was intense af, I felt that.
The thing about Dany is she has a very narrow definition of slavery, which justifies her actions against the people of Kings Landing. She doesn't believe them to be slaves, but supporters of an undeserving tyrant queen.
The hypocrisy on display is intentional. She's all to happy to be the Queen of the people when it's people who haven't overthrown and murdered her family historically, but when it's Westerosi's she hold all of them accountable.
An the thing is, those perceptions have never wavered. She was ready to burn Kings Landing the second they reached Westeros. It's only her advisers that have prevented it from happening until now.
The hypocrisy on display is intentional. She's all to happy to be the Queen of the people when it's people who haven't overthrown and murdered her family historically, but when it's Westerosi's she hold all of them accountable.
An the thing is, those perceptions have never wavered. She was ready to burn Kings Landing the second they reached Westeros. It's only her advisers that have prevented it from happening until now.
Tyrion didn't grow and change lol. He just stopped being a character. THAT there was the moment of change, that was never elaborated on
I looove young Griff thanks for reminding me about that character. Man I gotta reread the books, I'm getting whiplash trying to remember all the differences lol
And then proceeds to put her life and the lives of her children in danger to save Jon north of the Wall and joins him in the fight against the WWs. What did that have to do with claiming the iron throne? She still had a moral compass, it wasn't a shrewd move to form an alliance with him.
Because there was a very clear endpoint. And because none of us watched the show with the hope that it'd be disappointing. We hoped it'd surprise us with a return to form.
This isn't a Walking Dead situation, where the show very clearly doesn't have any intention of ending and potentially giving fans closure. We'd known for a while that the show was due to end with the eighth season, and we hoped it'd be a good, satisfying ending.
Quit insulting people for being critical of something they like. It's idiotic and it doesn't have anything to do with the discussion at hand.
Having a very chill Kingsmoot and brunch to celebrate her retaking the Iron Islands and Euron's death.
It should be noted that even before the episode came out or was even leaked it was getting review bombed on IMBD.
woulda been okay with the dany heel turn if they had full seasons in 7 and 8 to make it seem less like she hit a "mass murder/genocide" switch.
So many of the book-only characters are so interesting! I'd love to reread them but I just don't have the time these days.
I am a completely casual fan of the show, and have skipped entire seasons to get caught up as I only watch with friends. I had zero expectations or investment in the characters, so to me it was a fine episode.
I am enjoying all the discussion and back and forth though. As an overly passionate Star Wars OT "purist" I totally get it, and it's cool to be on the outside looking in. Carry on!
I am enjoying all the discussion and back and forth though. As an overly passionate Star Wars OT "purist" I totally get it, and it's cool to be on the outside looking in. Carry on!
Oh yeah I agree completely. My post doesn't really make sense, her show arc to get there was what ruined it, not necessarily the moment itself.
Oh I misinterpreted your post as just general fans. As for disliking her in the show, I just feel her storyline felt disconnected too long, and then when she arrived in Westeros I felt the stakes were lacking for what should've been a huge turning point.
Mad Queen Dany is always something I saw happening because there was enough foreshadowing for it to happen. I just don't believe the Daenerys two episodes ago would even think about doing what she did.
Well, then she wouldn't be the mad queen. Problem is they are rushing to an ending. This season should have been all about white walkers and have additional lore/backstory on their motivations, etc. This season should have ended with a more built up end of the NK/WW.
Next season would have been a return to more of a political drama and be a a slow build to power hungry madness so she is a more deserved/logical mad queen. This is supposed to be like the penultimate episode of season 9, not happening on the 5th episode of a 6 episode 8th season. Whole thing is just rushed.
Cersei and Jaime is pure just trash writing. They had the obvious chance at a decent arc with Jaime ending her and a more satisfying end to a decade long villian. Instead they went with that garbage. They didn't need more time to hash that out. They just wrote (or maybe GRRM did) a piss poor character arc and end of Cersei.
But that was an army that faced her on the battlefield, it wasn't foreshadowing for her murdering thousands of people she had no qualms with.
Flying straight for the castle and attempting to kill Cersei, inadvertently killing innocents with the debris? Sure, that's believable. Not this.
Sitting atop Drogon tearing up thinking about Jorah and Missandei and then Rhaegal gets pincushioned and falls. Snap happens.
This would have been much more digestible.
Kit Harrington has been completely spot-on in his interviews where he basically disagrees with all the writing decisions this season.
As a young girl, her family is butchered and she is shipped halfway across the world into hiding.
She grows up with nothing but stories of the throne she was promised, and an abusive, entitled older brother who claims he deserves it more. When that brother dies, she sees an opportunity for the throne to be hers specifically, and to justify all of the suffering she has unfairly endured.
When she gives up for the first time (after losing her husband, and his army) she walks into a funeral pyre and yet emerges with three dragons – a miracle, if ever there was one, and surely a sign that she is meant for great things.
She does her best to lead her people through feast and famine, all in the name of one day claiming what is rightfully hers. She has a string of very mixed results while trying to rule, but we tell ourselves that these are the failures of a great future leader and eventually it will all have been worth it.
Then she does the unthinkable and crosses the narrow sea with three dragons, a Dothraki horde, and an army of fiercely loyal fighters, where a handsome king in the North who is loved by most asks for her help in saving the world. Of course she does the right thing and agrees to help him.
But in doing so she is punished – first by fate, in losing one of her dragons, one of her most loyal subjects, and half of her army, and then later by the Queen who promised to join her in saving the Kingdom. That same Queen repays the favor by killing one of her dragons and beheading one of her few friends. The Queen's subjects - who she was promised were still loyal to her family after all this time - remain indifferent.
Oh and that King she fell in love with? Turns out he has a better claim than she does, everyone loves him more than her even though he doesn't want the throne or her hand in marriage, and even her own closest advisors betray her by spreading word of who they want on the throne. Not her.
And so a woman who has grown up envisioning this day her entire life, finds herself humiliated and alone with exactly one advantage left to press: a dragon. And when her enemies – the same enemies who have picked at her every ounce of mercy she has ever shown, who would have gladly seen her shot out of the sky and dragged through the streets – decide that they would like to conveniently surrender, she looks at the Red Keep and remembers what happened to her father, her family, and her friends, and all that they suffered.
Thus she snaps, and decides to rule through the only advantage she has left: the fear of her dragon, of fire and blood and absolute power, and the stories that will be passed on after this day.
The civilians of this city mean nothing to her at this point, even if they might have had things played out differently. Others created the context of her madness, but she makes the choice.
She is a tragic hero.
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Yup. She stole the show
She's been amazing for most of the season. Her face when she was looking at the Red Keep was intense af, I felt that.
It's funny as hell to me for all the bitching people did about the nonsensical shit that got Rhaegal killed that Dany's grand plan to wipe out Cersei's army is to....attack them in broad daylight and let plot armor do it's job lmao. Suddenly Euron's fleet and Cersei's battery of scorpions ain't shit because Dany is mad? Lol ok.
Makes Rhaegal look like he went out like an even bigger chump if the ballistas are that ineffective now all of a sudden. They really didn't give a fuck and just wanted to get this over with geez.
In other news the preview next week has me intrigued but based on this season I'm guessing it's gonna be real anticlimactic and none of this development is gonna pay off in a meaningful way.
Makes Rhaegal look like he went out like an even bigger chump if the ballistas are that ineffective now all of a sudden. They really didn't give a fuck and just wanted to get this over with geez.
In other news the preview next week has me intrigued but based on this season I'm guessing it's gonna be real anticlimactic and none of this development is gonna pay off in a meaningful way.
The fact that the world never got to see the glory that is "Strong Belwas" is a crime against nature.
Agreed, I never liked Dany that much and I definitely think the show was leading to this point. Hell, I think I would have been very disappointed if they gave her a happy glorious white saviour ending. But they botched the execution so badly that it's not even remotely satisfying