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Oct 25, 2017
11,039
I really don't think the idea of Anthem needs to be thrown into the trash completely.

I say give it another chance on next gen. They have the foundation there on what the game is, I say give it another try.
 

JackLinks

Banned
Mar 21, 2019
353
EA really did a number on bioware

Truly a terrible publishers and the biggest blight the videogame industry has ever faced
 

shinobi602

Verified
Oct 24, 2017
8,330
Curious, since the lore is hardly discussed: are you invested the characters, the mystery or is there a hook that grabbed you?
I would say the core gameplay loop hooked me for a good 50-60 hours. Flying around like Iron Man, knocking people over as the Colossus or dodging, using abilities, the ultimate all in conjunction with other players is just pure chaos more resembling something like Diablo. It's just fun.

The characters were...okay I guess. They definitely don't live up to BioWare's more quality games of the past. I think it's a cool world though. Technology left over by some ancient race that basically left a world half finished is neat, and I like the art direction. It's just a shame the good stuff is buried under so many bad QoL issues.
 

RoninStrife

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,002
7-10 year life cycle...
Im betting engine limitations aside, that game just can't evolve with the times. I bet when the next Destiny hits, its going to make Anthem a dinosaur and probably be the final nails in its coffin.
As for Bioware... I hope they pull through. I want a new Dragon Age, I want a new Mass Effect but I dont want them GaaS.. I want a deep story. Andromeda and Anthem's weakest points just happens to be that :(
 

SteamyPunk

Member
Oct 26, 2017
464
It's pathetic really. There's nothing to salvage about the IP.

It's unbelievable to me how poorly EA managed this IP. Why didn't they delay it 6 months and fix the fundamentals? Even if they would have taken a short-term hit, they would have salvaged the IP for the future. All they needed was like one strong aspect with the game that would carry the series to a sequel. At least have a strong story! Instead it's dead. They treated it like they were publishing another company's IP and they just had had enough with waiting on their return.
 

Landford

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,678
It's unbelievable to me how poorly EA managed this IP. Why didn't they delay it 6 months and fix the fundamentals? Even if they would have taken a short-term hit, they would have salvaged the IP for the future. All they needed was like one strong aspect with the game that would carry the series to a sequel. At least have a strong story! Instead it's dead. They treated it like they were publishing another company's IP and they just had had enough with waiting on their return.

There are probably some obvious fiscal reasons, but to me, the dead giveaway was something I read (I think the Kotaku article?) that mentioned they knew it was going to be badly received, but it worked for other games in the genre, so it was ok if they didn't deliver on launch. They player base would be willing to pay for a subpar product.

That was their exact mentality. "We can screw it up because others did as well."
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
I hope DA4 is basically just "Anthem done right" and the story is great, hack and slash and mage gameplay is great, the live-service is great and the story and player choice is great (PLEEEASE have player choices and PROPERLY like previous BioWare games). I really think Anthem will be hard to pull up without throwing out the baby with the bathwater on all projects that aren't Anthem. The whole "One BioWare" thing resulted in BioWare Montreal being pulled away from them because they couldn't handle it and we know there's no symbiosis with BioWare Austin and Edmonton, so they can't keep trying to do multiple projects like this and attempt to do all of them well. They should just have let BioWare Austin keep making SWTOR or new MMO pitches as they had previously done.
 

Deleted member 6730

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,526
Game's dead and I doubt they'll be able to salvage it. You need a strong opening with a lot of players initially because you'll get a bigger percentage of dedicated players down the line. With as soft of an opening as they had, I doubt anyone will come back. That's just not how these things work.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,000
"And he also pointed out something that can be easy to overlook, especially for those of us who still reflexively equate BioWare with Baldur's Gate: The audience has changed, and EA's studios, including BioWare, need to change with it."

That's simply not true. Traditional games and classic revivals have NEVER been more popular.
 

Cynn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,285
Imagine if they'd just kept working on Anthem as a next gen launch title instead of puking it out half done. What would that timeline look like I wonder.
 

Wyze

Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,140
Needs a realm reborn esque revival.
That means ditching that horrible engine, starting from scratch basically. Don't know if Bioware or EA have it in them.
 
OP
OP
kirbyfan407

kirbyfan407

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,103
Imagine if they'd just kept working on Anthem as a next gen launch title instead of puking it out half done. What would that timeline look like I wonder.

I don't think EA was willing to justify those financials, and in some ways it seems the timelines pushed Anthem to figure out its direction, but in my dreams, I want to see what you're suggesting.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,605
Glad to see they still have faith in the title enough to come out and say he sees it lasting 7-10 years. I think it's a diamond in the rough honestly, they just gotta find out how to make it shine. It has lots of awesome elements to it, but it's missing something for the moment.

Maybe they should hit up their pals at Ubisoft and get some creative feedback from their peers, because they have seemingly pulled off miracles turning around Steep, Rainbow Six Siege AND For Honor; they clearly know how to bounce back well.

One thing though, I really don't buy that they need to "change for the audience". Make great games and people will come no matter what. Hell, people are lining up for that new Baldurs Gate 3 right now.
 
Nov 2, 2017
6,804
Shibuya
Needs a realm reborn esque revival.
That means ditching that horrible engine, starting from scratch basically. Don't know if Bioware or EA have it in them.
As someone who has finished the game, I would strongly disagree with the notion that it needs to change engine. Anthem's main issues are content and design based. Neither of these need a new engine to fix.
 

Cynn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,285
I don't think EA was willing to justify those financials, and in some ways it seems the timelines pushed Anthem to figure out its direction, but in my dreams, I want to see what you're suggesting.
You gotta think about long term. The Anthem IP is basically cancer right now. Sure it would have cost more to keep development going but releasing a good game could result in a trilogy of popular games as opposed to a public embarrassment. Surely someone there had that vision. Who knows though.
 

Nolbertos

Member
Dec 9, 2017
3,310
Cue the PapEA gif over Bioware. Let's see how long Bioware lasts and if they release another egg, well, then, I would look at another job
 

Gloomz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,402
Eh, I think Destiny and Division survived in big part because they felt so good mechanically. Their problems were more systems/content-based. Anthem is pretty flawed even just from a core gameplay perspective.

I gotta call bullshit on that - there's a lot of things wrong with Anthem, but mechanically, it's excellent. What's odd about these couple of sentences is that they describe exactly what's wrong with Anthem as it mirrors the Destiny 1 / 2 and Division 1 / 2 issues - namely, systems / content.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
I guess if I thought EA would learn the right lessons from this I'd almost relish a high-profile failure to get them to change their thinking on GaaS, crunch, reliance on uncritical customers and so on. But whether it's because they're obligated to obfuscate it with PR spin or if they genuinely don't get it, it doesn't look like they get it based on the quote. So, perhaps paradoxically, I hope Bioware Austin can right the ship and make Anthem something I'd want to play.

The beta/demo clearly had something resembling the kernel of a good game buried beneath heaps of broken bullshit. But even when discounted to $30-35, which it now frequently is, Anthem in its current state isn't something I'd pay for.

Bloody hell, people never learn. Despite the In-depth reveal that clearly puts majority of the blame for how Anthem turned out on Bioware's decision making, y'all still turn around and blame EA.


It makes me happy to see so many of these GaaS titles blowing up in their publisher's greedy fucking faces. Take your broken half-baked game, and your road map to fixing the basic shit that should have been in the beta, and fuck right off.

Making a GaaS title doesn't make one inherently greedy, or the game necessarily broken or half baked at launch. Would you levy this same accusation at Polyphony Digital, for example? Or Naughty Dog? Or the Coalition?
I thought we'd moved past the misinformation and scare mongering about GaaS by now.
 

Serene

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
52,522
I gotta call bullshit on that - there's a lot of things wrong with Anthem, but mechanically, it's excellent. What's odd about these couple of sentences is that they describe exactly what's wrong with Anthem as it mirrors the Destiny 1 / 2 and Division 1 / 2 issues - namely, systems / content.

I completely disagree. In may 10-ish hours of Anthem, it always felt really stiff and heavy in a way that didn't feel great. Even with the lighter javelins, it always felt like you were not nearly as mobile as you should have been.
 

Gloomz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,402
I completely disagree. In may 10-ish hours of Anthem, it always felt really stiff and heavy in a way that didn't feel great. Even with the lighter javelins, it always felt like you were not nearly as mobile as you should have been.

That's... odd, but fair enough. I put about 250+ hours into it and its only saving grace is the Javelins and their movement / shooting - BW did a really fuckin' good job and I just wish the game had PVP and actual story / content / loot. It'd be incredible.
 
May 26, 2018
24,003
We know Dragon Age 4 is being contorted into some GAAS monstrosity so that's probably what he means when he says the studios have to change. They'll warp and bastardize Bioware until it no longer resembles itself and then kill it.

"This is your last chance, BioWare. Oh also btw, this time you're not going back to basics and not playing to your strengths. Oh no, people were disappointed. You're all fired."

-the future
 

Perona

Member
Oct 31, 2017
350
Combat is like the only thing Anthem does really right. Like the progression system and loot are fucked but I found the actual minute to minute gameplay to be way more fun than Division 2 or even Destiny.
 

Loxley

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,610
I honestly, genuinely hope BioWare are able to recoup and knock it outta the park with Dragon Age 4. Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if morale at the studio was in the dumpster right now.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,127
I just want Dragon Age 4 man. After Inquisition's ending, I don't know it I could cope with no sequel being released or the sequel being a GAAS mess.
 

RoninZ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,747
Between Andromeda and Anthem, Bioware pretty much killed all the confidence I had in their company. They had years to shape what they wanted Anthem to be, and they made that mess. Just shut them down and move the staff to other companies.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,720
I gotta call bullshit on that - there's a lot of things wrong with Anthem, but mechanically, it's excellent. What's odd about these couple of sentences is that they describe exactly what's wrong with Anthem as it mirrors the Destiny 1 / 2 and Division 1 / 2 issues - namely, systems / content.

Nah, Anthem has a lot more issues than those other games had when they launched. Anthem didn't (doesn't? I dont keep up) even have an inventory system during gameplay, lmao. The shooting feels stiff and lacks impact. The encounter design and AI are both extremely poor, which considering that you are meant to essentially be spending hundreds of hours shooting the same enemies, is, well....questionable. Destiny has excellent gunplay backed up with solid, sometimes downright memorable encounter design. Division has really cool battle arenas with the AI working together to take you down. It's fairly tactical and constantly keeps you on your toes. Anthem? The AI usually just sits in place waiting to be killed because that's all they can do. The encounter design in the open world is awful, or rather, non existant. They feel like they were designed for a game where you spend most of your time on the ground, not in the air.

And then there's the map which is one of the most samey, boring looking open worlds i have come across this whole gen. It blows my mind that anyone would *want* to spend hundreds of hours in this world. Compare it to Destiny, which has multiple planet with different aesthetics, colours or Division which is a faithful recreation of a real city.... Anthem just feels like it really only has 2 things going for it: the flying and the cool abilities. The game built around it is just poor. I'd much rather that Bioware made a brand new game and simply reused the movement mechanics from Anthem. Because "saving" anthem just seems futile to me. They'd have to remake the entire game for that to happen.
 

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,577
"And he also pointed out something that can be easy to overlook, especially for those of us who still reflexively equate BioWare with Baldur's Gate: The audience has changed, and EA's studios, including BioWare, need to change with it."

That's simply not true. Traditional games and classic revivals have NEVER been more popular.

Looks at Baldur's Gate 3 announcement...
 

Abominuz

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,550
Netherlands
Let it die and move the focus on other projects. I feel EA wants to save it to have a steady microtrans... i mean surprise mechanic cashcow.
 

Zealuu

Member
Feb 13, 2018
1,183
Bloody hell, people never learn. Despite the In-depth reveal that clearly puts majority of the blame for how Anthem turned out on Bioware's decision making, y'all still turn around and blame EA.

Yes, I read the Schreier exposè as well. The takeaway from that is that as it became more and more obvious that Bioware were unable to realize their original vision for Anthem, the vision itself quickly became muddled, while they continued to believe up until the last second that "Bioware magic" would save it. That's on them.

But that's not everything though, is it? The decision to force all studios to use the apparently quite arcane Frostbite engine to save money on engine licensing and royalties for example, is 100% an executive EA decision, and has been disastrous for Bioware's output since it was implemented, perhaps particularly so with Anthem. The late decision to steer the game in the direction of a Destiny clone despite lacking the pedigree necessary to make one also didn't take place in isolation. That's them interpreting the signals and adapting to where corporate has pivoted lately. It's also a publisher decision to try and sell a game that is obviously a broken husk at full price, presumably in the hopes of recouping some of the losses before people figure out what state the game is in. A conscientious publisher would have canned it for not being up to par.

It's obviously possible to make enjoyable GaaS titles, and they don't even have to look like Destiny. Ubisoft has done it twice now with singleplayer games like Origins and Odyssey. It's just that EA doesn't seem to get it. Take away their card packs in FUT or their loot boxes in Battlefield/Battlefront, and they start blundering around, monetizing at the expense of the game's playability. The only EA GaaS title I actually enjoy is - bizarrely - UFC 3 because of its constantly updated live event feature.
 

ClarkusDarkus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,723
Probably my biggest waste of money this gen, Lifeless, Souless, Just can't see how they can turn that around. By the time they do next gen will be here anyway.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
Wilson has been part of EA's values and habits for nineteen years, leading the company for the last six. Like many others in leadership roles at EA, he came up as a developer. And unlike the CEOs of Activision and Take-Two, he actively plays video games.
We are playing a game of "which one is lying" right here, then. I've spoken to people working in Activision and they keep telling me Bobby Kotick "plays video games", and whenever you hear from the other horse's mouth you're told the opposite. It's just a weak gesture of PR from those CEO, then.

The EA of today has also shied away from auteurship in favor of teamwork.
Yep, and agile is a globally transitioning thing for all software development, so we're really just following the trends. However, as much as I thought, a few years ago, that we could surely use more emphasis on teamwork, well... Given the results I kinda want to say that this has not led to better products?
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
The characters were...okay I guess. They definitely don't live up to BioWare's more quality games of the past. I think it's a cool world though. Technology left over by some ancient race that basically left a world half finished is neat, and I like the art direction. It's just a shame the good stuff is buried under so many bad QoL issues.
This aspect deeply suffers from the things discussed in the big "Exposé" on the game's development, that the vision was unclear, the production cycle was rushed and they had to just go with what they created since their performance capture sessions were too expensive to iterate on.

The fact that they are doing performance capture is honestly something that bums me out a little. I'm not saying you can't do that in a BioWare type story experience and they clearly made some kind of story out of it here... but even non-BioWare games featuring BioWare-esque storytelling - Witcher 3 and AC:Odyssey - those games developed a system to handle over a dozen thousand lines of spoken dialogue just like BioWare used to, and so it isn't all hard-captured animation or fully hand-keyed, it's largely automatic, and that was the means by which BioWare managed to iterate and refine their plots and characters in previous games.

I would like to see Anthem solidified as well but personally I see perf. capture as a big anchor around their neck, and I hate to think the only reason they went with it might've been to avoid creating those "memeable" tired faces.

Not a lost cause though. If they continue developing in the same pipeline I have one suggestion to them: Stop making your characters end their conversation in laughter every time. It's awkward.
 

kinjx11

Banned
Jan 24, 2019
299
when the executives at EA like " at least" one executive at Bioware so much they blew money on Bioware even after the failed MassEffect andromeda and the disaster of a game that is Anthem , it's a joke