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  1. Mesoian

    Mesoian
    Member

    It's just straight that people would almost prefer the nomenclature to be "Yes, I'm a gamer, but not one of THOSE gamers". As if that's supposed to mean something to anyone not in the know.

    I get it if someone you don't know very well and also doesn't know gaming very well uses it as a catch all for some sort of conversation starter, but...I think everytime I've had a real-world conversation about "GAMERS", it has been when some vile dealings in this culture have hit the mainstage and called into question the morality or general cognizance of people who play video games. Maybe it was gamer gate, maybe it was Steve Bannon explaining how he started a gold farming company to pull gamers into GOP echo chambers, maybe it was Milo Yannopolis getting kicked off college campuses, maybe it was the rationale behind the Sandy Hook shootings, maybe it was the congressional hearings behind night trap and mortal kombat.

    But when someone wants to have a conversation about "GAMERS" it's usually because something bad happened. As if they want to discuss the nature of the pejorative. Because if someone I know wants to talk about video games and they don't know about video games, they'll bring up specific examples. Fortnite, Halo, Call of Duty, Madden, etc. But they don't bring up "GAMERS".

    "GAMERS" is reserved for when something bad happens. "Gamers" is said with squinted eyes and a sneer.
     
  2. PaulloDEC

    PaulloDEC
    Member

    It's tricky. I understand not wanting to let go of a term you might use to describe yourself; as a rule, I'm firmly against the idea of letting shitty people "own" words. I don't really use the word "gamer" for myself too often, but I still don't like the idea of shitty people getting to have it.

    See, I could never have a conversation talking shit about "gamers" because on some level I'd be internally thinking "But aren't you a gamer?"

    When I talk about those kinds of people, I'll use additional words so that they're not just "gamers". Asshole gamers. Garbage gamers. Pieces of shit who also happen to play games. And so forth.
     
  3. Mesoian

    Mesoian
    Member

    I have no disillusions about the fact that every time I had those conversations, I was being judged by the people asking just as hard as I was judging the people they were talking about. You're totally right, it's a tricky thing.

    Maybe I'm just used to it because I often have to respond to, "BLACK PEOPLE" said in hushed tones when something happens.
     
  4. Quote

    Quote
    Member

    how have i gone through this whole life without ever being asked if i’m a gamer
     
  5. RedMercury

    RedMercury
    Member

    I'm not a "gamer" but I enjoy games, I don't tie my identity in with my activities, except for being a Dad, but even then that isn't my identity, it's just something I am, albeit a huge part.
     
  6. Pixieking

    Pixieking
    Member

    To get into the sociology of it...

    Everyone plays games, and learning and play go hand in hand until at least the early teens, as it's a good way to embed knowledge and keep the attention of children within a class, when used appropriately.

    However, the question "are you a gamer?" and it's partner statement "I am a gamer" can illustrate the human need to be part of a clique, group or society that pushes identity first. "Are you one of us?" is an alternative reading of the question - depending upon person asking - and better explains why there's pushback against women and PoC within some groups of gamers who tie their identity (gamer) to what they do (play games). It's why I'm of the opinion that the word itself is less of an issue than the gatekeeping of knowledge, and the related requirement for the "other" (like women) to prove they're real gamers.

    The OP said in the first post:

    But the reality is that there's a group or groups of people for whom "gamer" is a set of beliefs or worldview, because it ties to identity. That's a specific choice they made, maybe years ago, maybe yesterday, that affects many things.

    Are all "gamers" like that? No. Are all people who play games like that? No. But the pushback against "The Death of Gamers" articles in 2014, and everything since then - including this thread - illustrates that some/many "gamers" are like this. Dan Golding wrote this back in '14:
    4 years and countless "gamers" whining and complaining later, it's hard not to argue that this is still true today. Even if gaming is more mainstream - with mums and dads and politicians and writers and Lady Gaga playing games - "gamer" is still an identity, with a set of assumptions, beliefs and worldviews.
     
  7. Strangelove77

    Strangelove77
    Member

  8. IBLiSTRiGGER

    IBLiSTRiGGER
    Member

    am i gamer? no.

    i’ve played games all my life, but i am not a gamer. i was never given the right. i was the ‘cool girl’, who knew what street fighter was, which made me infinitely more fuckable, but the moment i kicked their ass, or did something they couldn’t, it was made very clear — i could never be ‘one of them’.

    but, am i a gaymer?

    y o u b e t t e r b e l i e v e i a m
     
  9. Xaszatm

    Xaszatm
    Member

    No, I'm sorry, but you're wrong here. You're completely wrong to compare people making fun of a hobby to a group of people who performed genocide as the same thing. Your starting statement is so wrong, that no one is bothering to take it seriously.
     
  10. Novel

    Novel
    Banned Member

    God this video is so cringe.
     
  11. Xeontech

    Xeontech
    Member

    It was an exaggerated example of the same type of behavior.

    Generalizations are convenient which is why they appeal to the inarticulate and to non-critical thinkers. But it’s just lazy and says more about the people making them than the people they’re about.

    Whether you identify as a gamer or a game enthusiast, the only difference is that made up cushion you created in your head.

    Pretending you’re not somthing you are is just adding to the problem. Own up to the things you enjoy, stop the cowardly act of hiding the fact, cause anyone posting on this forum is a game enthusiast, video game player, has gaming interests of in other words is a GAMER. Trying to hide it isn’t helping your cause.
     
  12. darz1

    darz1
    Member OP

    Ok so there seems to be at least 4 different definitions of "gamer"

    A) a person who plays video games

    B) a person whos self identity is tied to video games

    C) a bigot who plays video games

    D) a bigot whos self identity is tied to video games

    I know my OP may have seemed definitive, perhaps i should have added an "IMO", but can we all agree at least that the term "gamer" is not singular in meaning and perhaps we can ease up on judging people who use the word before we know which definition they fit under?
     
  13. excelsiorlef

    excelsiorlef
    Member

    Rise up brother, rise up.
     
  14. Kyuuji

    Kyuuji
    Member

    Th.. this can’t be sincere right?
     
  15. excelsiorlef

    excelsiorlef
    Member

    Nice and now you hit gamergate isn't even that big of a deal note...

    So now it's "Gamergate wasn't a big deal and some of you are just as bad as Nazis... how dare you imply I'm immature"
     
  16. excelsiorlef

    excelsiorlef
    Member

    Dude you just said a lot of us are not better than Nazis in defense of your label... and now you demanding we embrace your label?
     
  17. spineduke

    spineduke
    Member

    Some more prevalent behavior to look at when talking about general online experiences:

    https://www.resetera.com/threads/shotcalling-talking-on-mic-with-a-feminine-voice.78779/

    You could say, that's shitty human beings, but those same people identify so much with gaming, and are gatekeeping to make sure those damn women/sjws don't infect their online space with their presence.

    How could any of the people who've been on the receiving end of that want to identify themselves within that same group?
     
  18. excelsiorlef

    excelsiorlef
    Member

    This thread has made me even less wanting the label than ever btw..
     
  19. Polygatari

    Polygatari
    Member

    Lady Gaga has called herself a Gamer today/yesterday.

    Is it all good now? Has she cleansed the term?
     
  20. darz1

    darz1
    Member OP

    Because we dont agree that those fuckwits define the group, no matter how much they might want to. If it were up to them we wouldnt even share the same hobby but they dont get to decide that for me. Gaming doesnt belong to them. Its much bigger than their little circle of alt right woman hating losers.
     
  21. spineduke

    spineduke
    Member

    but its so prevalent - its the most common experience people have online. i'd argue it defines the online experience for the average woman.
     
  22. Quote

    Quote
    Member

    have you even considered what it’s like to play an online game as a woman? this isn’t an edge case dude
     
  23. excelsiorlef

    excelsiorlef
    Member

    Fine for you... but this thread is you insisting that a bunch of people, many of whom are those treated poorly by the gaming community, adopt a label they don't want to.

    How is that helping anyone, you're not making it more inclusive, you're dictating terms.

    And frankly gaming caters to them, panders to them... that's why we're in this mess. The industry has a rot at its heart, Gamergate wasn't repudiated, it was tolerated and in some cases outright endorsed

    And I mean it's not just GG, look at what happens when a game not directed at your typical Gamer gets good reviews. There was a literal freak out because Gone Home got top scores and GOTY nominations.

    And it's not just that stuff, look at the shitfest thrown at Stirling for giving BotW 7.5
     
  24. Novel

    Novel
    Banned Member

    No, it is.
    The original uploader took it down but people reposted it online.
     
  25. Ferrs

    Ferrs
    Member

    Or recently the new Diablo. And this is before we take into consideration threads about objectification of women in games and representation of minorities and see what these "inclusive" gamers post there.

    I don't know why is so hard to understand people want to stay far away from that crap.
     
  26. Hercule

    Hercule
    Member

    What's wrong in people expressing their disappointment in the new Diablo?
     
  27. Ferrs

    Ferrs
    Member

    There's no problem per se expressing dissapointing about a product, but a lot of expressions have been overly aggresive and insulting to the devs.
     
  28. spineduke

    spineduke
    Member

  29. Tygre

    Tygre
    Member

    No fucking way.

    "Gamer" does not mean everyone who plays games, and you know it doesn't. Being a "Gamer" has never been inclusive, and you know it hasn't. "Gamers" have a shitty reputation, and they deserve it, they don't get to hide behind the rest of us after decades of gatekeeping and lack of acceptance.

    Gamers should own what they've become. They did it to themselves.

    I'm not opposed to labels, I'm a queer furry and happy to say it, but even though I play games every day I would never, ever want to associate myself with being a gamer.

    Bingo.
     
  30. Menik

    Menik
    Member

    I'm not always about ditching dumpster fires, but for those who still want to define what they do, how about using the term "inclusive gamer" instead? I don't think there's any way to misinterpret that, though it might be setting up an opposition and putting tension where tension wasn't before.

    Otherwise I don't see a solution other than having these conversations about toxicity as they come up. Ambitious may be organizing a campaign around inclusive gaming to bring attention to the issues. Gamers taking care of their community and what not.
     
  31. Bansai

    Bansai
    Member

    The only thing that was insulting was closing your 200$ (+ travel expenses) show for PC players with a mobile game nobody wanted.

    Blizzard nurtured for years the emotional attachment of their fans to their benefit, so when it backfires, I find it silly when some people on the sidelines are suddenly defending "poor blizzard".
     
  32. Majukun

    Majukun
    Member

    the term was never dirty in the first place, at least not outside of era.

    frankly i'm baffled that this kind of lazy generalizations is so widely used on era, but here we are.
     
  33. Rudolph

    Rudolph
    Member

    Theyre being manbabies about it.
     
  34. Polygatari

    Polygatari
    Member

    Of course I agree with you :)

    Was just calling out the morons.
     
  35. Quote

    Quote
    Member

    They’re so close to the realization that corporations will not take their hand in marriage and the hype machine has failed them.

    Instead they’re so focused on the micro issue of a mobile game being annoucened instead of a 3 second titlecard at a PR event that they willingly paid for.

    There’s so much wrong with the whole picture but their gripe is... that they can’t give a company more money.
     
  36. Tzarscream

    Tzarscream
    Member

    1. Games have been marketed towards teenage to young adult men heavily from the 90s up to now (although is less severe now, mid to late 2000's was probably the peak)
    2. Games are also all about empowerment, particularly male empowerment
    3. Games have generally had a negative stereotype associated with them historically (probably due to points 1 and 2)

    Because of the above points, people that are in to games, have let it form a big part of their identity in a degree larger and a lot different to how fans of film, books, theatre etc have done previously.

    Mainly due to the marketing part, it's a large part of their identity, they are used to being specifically catered to, and they have a chip on their shoulder because it has negatives stereotypes associated with it.

    That's how we end up with "Gamer" - and it's a derogatory term because it's associated with young males that have an unhealthy level of their identity associated with videogames, that want to maintain being fully catered to by marketing, and feel rejected by society because they love games.

    That's how you end up with gamergate, and how you end up with this BlizzCon embarrassment.

    • Gamergate because the females want to take our games away (We aren't the sole target for marketing any more, the females are accepted by society, we aren't and now the companies don't want us as the target demographic any more)
    • Blizzcon because the casuals want to take our games away (We aren't the sole target for marketing any more the casuals are accepted by society, we aren't and now the companies don't want us as the target demographic any more).

    When you think about, it's massively psychological, Gamergate was a collective reaction to perceived abandonment and rejection caused by "the left."

    Anyway, words mean things and gather connotations, you can sit here and say Gamer = People Who Play Games - but that isn't true, it has developed a negative connotation and for good reason.

    Redneck = Person with a red neck
    Hillbilly = Person that lives in the hills

    But come on, we know what these words really mean in today's world, let's not feign ignorance here.
     
  37. Hercule

    Hercule
    Member

    So in the future we should all applaud Konami for doing the right business move in making their games pachinko games?
     
  38. Pixieking

    Pixieking
    Member

    Uncalled for. Give me a reason why you're taking a dig at the people who are actually giving reasoned arguments about how words have multiple meanings, depending upon who says them.
     
  39. Polygatari

    Polygatari
    Member

    Because I feel guilty by association if the ownership of the term is left with gamergate types.

    Also logically I feel that "gamer" is a neutral term referring to someone who plays or has an interest in video games as a medium. It makes no logical sense to allow that term to have a narrow meaning than what the word literally means.
     
  40. Pixieking

    Pixieking
    Member

    So you’re calling people who disagree with you and make you feel crappy “morons”? I mean, am I misunderstanding you here? Genuine question, because it feels like I am.
     
  41. Polygatari

    Polygatari
    Member

    I think they are morons yes. To promote or believe that the word "gamer" has a meaning beyond simply someone who plays video games or is an enthusiast of the medium, is moronic to me yes. Simple.
     
  42. Tzarscream

    Tzarscream
    Member

    You can feel whatever you want but the reality is that "Gamer" means something negative and was worn with pride by GamerGate.
     
  43. Polygatari

    Polygatari
    Member

    No. It means something negative for people who want to be prejudiced.

    GamerGate people don't own a term that has a literal dictionary definition as "a person who plays video games or participates in role-playing games."
     
  44. Ferrs

    Ferrs
    Member

    what te fuck is this nonsense.

    If someone gets so emotional attached to a product that ends up throwing tantrums and insults when they get something they don't want is sorely on them. I'm not defending Blizzard, but I'm neither defending toxicity in gaming like some of you guys.
     
  45. Pixieking

    Pixieking
    Member

    So the lack of self-awareness here is something you should look at.

    You want to wear the badge of "gamer" with pride.
    But other people make you feel crappy, because of associations they make with the word, which have nothing to do with you personally but through the actions of a bunch of dicks.
    So rather than understand that other people have mixed feelings to the word "gamer" and can recognise and point out those problematic issues in a mature manner to you...
    ... You call them morons.

    You're a gamer. Calling people who disagree with you (and whom you disagree with) morons.

    Do you see how that just feeds into the negative, irrational behaviour of "gamers"?

    (Legit not trying to be a dick, just...)
     
  46. Tzarscream

    Tzarscream
    Member

    My dude, language changes over time, GamerGate co-opted that word and changed the meaning.

    By all means you can be stubborn and deny the inevitable - keep using the word in your way - however typically it's very difficult to re-appropriate a word all by yourself.
     
  47. Majukun

    Majukun
    Member

    something doesn't mean something negative just because ERA (well, some guys on era) says so.

    who the fuck care if gamergate used the world gamer in it, they do not represent all gamers in any way, shape or form

    especially considering how big the category is nowadays
     
  48. Polygatari

    Polygatari
    Member

    • User Banned (1 week): Downplaying the impact of hate movements, dismissing others

    It's not about pride, I'm just stuck on the logical part of this argument.

    "Gamer" literally means "a person who plays video games or participates in role-playing games." I'm not letting that be redefined as "Gamergate people" because of peoples prejudice.

    Gamergate is a particularly American phenomenon and a particularly niche internet phenomenon. The meaning of the name "Gamer" doesn't change Worldwide because of what is going on, on the American internet.

    I'm from the UK. I can tell you a fact that Gamer here is the dictionary definition.
     
  49. Stormed

    Stormed
    Member

    I simply like gamer as an ironic term. The early 2000s-2010s where it was hip to flex how big of a gamer you are online aged so terribly that it became funny, especially after post-gamergate became a thing and tainted it
    [​IMG]
     
  50. Messofanego

    Messofanego
    Member

    Is it a generalisation that when a woman speaks up in an online multiplayer game, she will get harassed? Same for anyone else part of marginalised groups. Or how quickly gamers want to shut down any political talk when it doesnt affect them directly. You wouldn't be baffled if you have been reading this thread properly and can be empathic for others' struggles in gaming communities.
     
  51. Polygatari

    Polygatari
    Member

    Don't you dare question our feelings and opinions on discrimination that females or minorities receive, just because we have an opinion of what "Gamer" means.

    You are insinuating that those of us who think Gamer should only be associated with its literal dictionary definition, are not caring of struggles of females and minorities?
     
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