1. Zeta Ori

    Zeta Ori
    Member OP

    Warning: It's pretty clear from the title that any game simply mentioned in this thread is a spoiler in itself, so continue reading at your own risk.

    So, I recently wrapped up a full playthrough of the Access Games 2010 cult classic masterpiece Deadly Premonition through 360 BC on the One, and while I could go on for paragraphs about all the reasons I have fallen in love with this game, I'm making this thread to discuss one particular scene/trope:

    Now for those of you who have yet to play this game (and if you haven't, please do. I cannot stress that enough. The game is an experience and the plot points ill be discussing ruin that experience. If you have even a slight interest in the title, stop reading here.) and are questioning just what the heck you just watched, allow me to fill you in:

    The guy in the video is FBI Agent Francis York Morgan, who is investigating a homicide in the rural town of Greenvale, Washington. This scene takes place almost immediately after the games opening chapter, and is seemingly completely random to the player, with many players I talked to not even being able to see what Francis is seeing in the coffee (it's actually there, just not as clear as a crisp spring morning)

    Now, at the time this information means nothing to the player. But as you progress through the game and Francis's investigation, your eventually introduced to a character named Forest Kayson, and upon being introduced the scene is referenced again through a flashback. However, Forest is clearly not the killer you are after, as he consistently has an alibi for his location during the murder.

    Later, after discovering the true raincoat killer and their motivations and putting a stop to it, the game pulls the rug from out your feet by informing you that actually, Forest Kayson was the mastermind of the whole thing and has been doing this for a loooonnggg time. The Raincoat killer was just an irrelevant pawn. Oh and, just before you find out, you kind of just trusted him to bring the woman you spend the course of the game falling in love with to the hospital after she's injured in the pursuit of the Raincoat Killer....


    Now, the reason this particular example works so well is related to another plot point revealed at the end of the game. After all, even with the information that Forest Kayson is the true mastermind, it still doesn't explain why Francis would just randomly pick up on that staring into some coffee. You see, Francis is actually the alternate personality of Zach Morgan, and was created when Zach experienced the trauma of watching his father commit suicide after failing to mercy kill his wife (Zach's/Francis's mom). And why would Zach's dad be killing his mom out of mercy? Well as it turns out, Forest Kayson planted a parasite like seed in Zach's mother stomach, and it's literally growing from inside her body. She dies a horrible and painful death due to Zach's fathers failure to euthanize her, and that horrifying experience causes child Zach's mind to break to such a point a completely new personality is created as a defense mechanism.

    So in short, Francis is already aware of who Forest Kayson is at the beginning of the game in a sense, but because of the trauma experienced by Zach that lead to Francis's creation in the first place, is either unwilling or incapable of remembering the exact relevance of why FK would be important to this case.
    The reason I say unwilling or incapable is because there's a possibility Francis is more aware of the circumstances then he lets on, and doesn't disclose this information because his true end goal is to have Zack return as the personality in charge of his body which requires Zach to breach these memories that locked away in his head on his own terms, but that's just my own speculation.

    After discussing it with a few friends, the only other game that came to mind that did this was

    Resident Evil 7, with the E-001 picture located right in the beginning of the game

    So, failing to think of more examples, I was curious if Era might have a few.
  2. Birdseye


    Spec Ops: The Line?

    Edit: now that I think of it, not really
  3. BBQ_of_DOOM


    Destiny and
  4. DevilPuncher


    Don't shake hands with strangers, teens.
  5. Glio


    All the games of Atlus

  6. Lazrgatr


    Dark souls 3
    has the final boss on the cover art.
  7. dr_p0p7ar7_


    Final Fantasy XV

  8. Interface23


  9. Birdseye


    What was the hint in Persona 5? (I don't even remember who was the main villain in Persona 5)
  10. Ishida


    I understood that reference. And I agree.
  11. Caiusto


    Super Mario 64. Lakitu is always trying to fuck you
  12. GreenMamba


    Maybe not exactly the same but regarding the true culprit in Persona 4:

    The very first time you see Detective Adachi he's vomiting after seeing Mayumi Yamano's corpse. They play it off like it was him being a dumb rookie at the time but after finding out he was the actual person who killed her (and on accident) he was likely vomiting out of shock that he murdered someone.

    There's also the true mastermind, Izanami, disguised as the gas station attendant, the first resident of Inaba you meet that isn't your uncle or cousin. When you shake hands with them (which is *much* later signified as Izanami giving you your power) the controller vibrates, something that doesn't typically happen in scenes in the game otherwise.
  13. hughesta


    Persona 4 is textbook imo
  14. Glio


    The change of voice
  15. Tali'Zorah


    Life is Strange, to an extent

    Jefferson basically tells you what he's been doing in the first scene in the game, saying "I could frame any one of you in a dark corner, and capture you in a moment of desperation." You later find out that's exactly what he's been doing to a bunch of helpless teens
  16. Kor of Memory

    Kor of Memory

    Man, I don't even want to say the name, because the reveal is so good and done so well.

    It's a indie game
    With episodic content
    it had a sequel come out recently
    The game itself came out in 2015
    It's known for it's incredibly "hipster" dialogue

    Life is strange

    Jefferson's dialgue in the background while Max is thinking to herself about her dream. It's like his 4th or 5th sentence: "Seriously though, I could frame any one of you in a dark corner, and capture you in a moment of desperation"
  17. Fantomas

    Is this tag ok? Member

    I was just about to say this one! Definitely good foreshadowing.
  18. KillstealWolf



    There is a very subtle controller rumble when you shake hands with this Attendant at the beginning of the game. Turns out she's actually Izanami, the true final boss of the game. There's additional clues to her true appearance in her dialogue over the year as you play.
  19. Mr-Joker


    Every villain in the main series Pokémon game.

    No he isn't, he's just drunk as is Mario...at least that's what my head story is when I played Mario 64.
  20. Meia


    Igor greets you in a very slightly different way when you first meet him. Considering he has the same introductory greeting in every previous game, and in fact does this same greeting once the real one shows up, it's a very slight give away.("Welcome to the Velvet Room," vs. "Welcome to my Velvet Room." Of course, with the different VA, probably no one picked up on it, or the VA change itself being a tell as well.
  21. Zeta Ori

    Zeta Ori
    Member OP

    Nice one, completely missed out on this. Thread already delivering.

    I recall Izanami in P4, but I'm drawing a blank on some of the other Atlus games that have done this.
  22. Crayolan


    Pokemon XY lol
  23. MDSVeritas

    Gameplay Programmer, Sony Santa Monica Verafied

  24. Syriel


  25. casey_contra


    Oh goddddddd
  26. GameShrink


    Always glad to see more appreciation for Deadly Premonition. As much as people think of it as "the goofy Japanese video game version of Twin Peaks," the story is actually very strong and arguably one of the best examples of a mentally ill protagonist in the entire medium.
  27. L.O.R.D


  28. Glio


    Tokyo Mirage Sessions, Persona 3, Persona 5, Devil Survivor 2...

    If they have bothered to do a specific modeling for a seemingly unimportant character in the early hours of the game, watch it
  29. Sumio Mondo

    Sumio Mondo


    Shootout ensues in the beginning of the game and the culprit gets away. The main character sits next to him on the plane to the main location of the game and the villain has a very clear injury in full view as well as acting creepy and generally just looking evil. Hardly a big twist when you find out he's the one going around killing everyone.
  30. casey_contra


    Does Super Paper Mario count? Although there aren't any heavy hints, you definitely get the sense that there is an "outlier."
  31. Kor of Memory

    Kor of Memory

    Can you elaborate? It's been 10 years since I've played it. :(
  32. KtotheRoc


    The Ace Attorney games have done this a few times. But Apollo Justice may just take the cake.

    The Killer in the first case is also the Killer in the final case.
  33. casey_contra


    Sure thing! The true villain is the clown, Dimentio. The whole time he is constantly ragging on his fellow henchman, and eventually reveals that he is the true villain and has been manipulating the Count.
  34. Zeta Ori

    Zeta Ori
    Member OP

    Yeah, this seems like good advice going forward.
  35. cakely


    Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2.
  36. Curufinwe


  37. Pirate Bae

    Pirate Bae
    Community Resettler Member

    Life is Strange is the GOAT

    My other vote is for Danganronpa V3


    In the first trial, they talk at length about how Tsumugi doesn't have an alibi because she was in the bathroom at the time of the murder, but then the class proves that it couldn't have been her, regardless. Flash forward to the last trial...come to find out there's a secret passage hidden in that very same bathroom that leads directly to the crime scene. Tsumugi was able to use the passage, kill the victim, and make it back in time for no one to suspect anything.
  38. Matsukaze


    Yup, came here to say P4.

    P5 is in the same boat.
  39. Soundchaser


    The original Deus Ex.

    The first cutscene in the game shows Bob Page and Walton Simons discussing their world domination plans in a way that doesn't quite make sense to the first-time player, while the training level and the first mission establish them as your superiors. Later on, their plans are explained to you, and you turn against them.
  40. Wood Man

    Wood Man

    I don't know if this applies but Dr. Cossack was introduced as a new villain back in Mega Man 4. But I noticed Bubble Bats and Mets as normal enemies in the game. I was like "Those are Wily's creations, so he's gotta be behind this somehow." Spoiler alert: I was right.
  41. DevilPuncher


    P4? P5? What? I was just casually and off-topically giving out some life advice. You never know where peoples' hands have been after all.
  42. CGiRanger


    With almost all of Bandai-Namco's "Tales of" games Opening Animations, you can easily pick out who will be the final villain. (at least for the ones I've played; Abyss, Vesperia, Zestiria, Berseria)

    The only one that I'm aware of where that wasn't the case was Tales of Symphonia (the original, not the so-called "sequel")
  43. Zeta Ori

    Zeta Ori
    Member OP

    Completely forgot about this one, thanks. That reminds me, it's about time to revisit Dues Ex anyway.
  44. This is a good one.
  45. His Majesty

    His Majesty

    Minor early The Witcher 3 spoiler

  46. ♡♪!?


    I guess Metal Gear Solid 2 where you hear Scott Dolph say Lalilulelo because the Patriots, the secret masterminds, are censored out.
  47. HiroTSK5


    The Last Story.

    Me during the reveal: "Wow it sure was convenient your plan took into account that the main character would do the opposite of literally everything you told him to do based on information there is no way you should know, aided by other villains that have no reason to ever help you/not immediately kill you."

    And somehow I was still able to predict who the twist villain was two hours in.
  48. LightKiosk


    Metal Gear Solid V

    The huge V on the boxart. Looking back in hindsight it was a clear hint for Venom Snake. Whether or not people were easily able to figure it out is another story, but everything about the box art hints at the villain.
  49. tiebreaker


    Wait, who is the big bad guy in TMS? I only remember the dragon, but everything else is blurry.
  50. Dark_Chris


    Resident Evil 7

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