Gamespot: Dark Souls is one of the most influential games of the 21st century

[KNZFive]

GTA 3 and it's not even close. As someone who remembers the time before GTA 3, it was a revelation for people, especially mainstream audiences.

It's one of those games like Super Mario Bros. on NES, in that it's a definitive title in gaming history that completely changes what games will be in the future. It's THE first open world game in terms of impact, so it's impossible to not take influence from it.

GTA was like D&D influential.

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That's a perfect analogy. GTA 3 is so ingrained in gaming's DNA now that many people forget how many games have elements from it.

 

[Manmademan]

Why does everyone act like Demons Souls barely exists?

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The overwhelming dominance of the 360 in the US means that few people in the US actually played it.
Dark Souls was the first exposure most people had to the series.

Also, the naming switch means it isn't obvious there was a game BEFORE Dark Souls, so many people that might otherwise have checked it out don't realize there's a prequel game. Same thing happened when Soul Calibur blew up on Dreamcast and no one knew it was the second game in the series after Soul Edge/Soul Blade.

 

[deathsaber]

Sorry guys. I know people love their Souls games, but it represents a single subset of games, mostly coming from one developer- and it appeals to a niche audience- a large-ish niche, but these most certainly are not games for "everyone" by any sense of the imagination.

I don't say this to take anything away from these games, or insults its fans. But it is not a seminal or "most influential" game of an entire freaking century. Its got a couple of poor imitiators (and maybe a handful of decent games made in its image (cough Nioh)

GTA would have it beat (for open world stuff). Or Minecraft. Or Call of Duty (for establishing shooter progression that will be endlessly followed). Or pick your favorite Naughty Dog game for sheer cinematic brilliance and broadening the scope of what an action adventure game could be. Or RE4 for what it brought for TPS mechanics.

 

[Cactuar]

If you're going ancestor route, then you wouldn't give it to Demon's Souls, you'd give it to King's Field. Or going back further, Ultima Underworld. Or going back further, Wizardry.

Dark Souls influenced & continues to influence many games. Demon's Souls primarily just influenced 1 game - Dark Souls.

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Demon's Souls isn't some "ancestor route," it is the direct father to it's spiritual successor Dark Souls, which came out only two years later and is very much a continuation. But again, even that is wrong if we're talking "most" influential.

 

[LavaBadger]

Being influential is not about being the first.

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It's not the only factor, but it is a factor, or it could be about doing it "the best" or something along those lines; it's the influence that it carriers. The only thing Skyrim brought was popularity, and even prior, Oblivion was very popular.

 

[Deleted member 13155]

The overwhelming dominance of the 360 in the US means that few people in the US actually played it.
Dark Souls was the first exposure most people had to the series.

Also, the naming switch means it isn't obvious there was a game BEFORE Dark Souls, so many people that might otherwise have checked it out don't realize there's a prequel game. Same thing happened when Soul Calibur blew up on Dreamcast and no one knew it was the second game in the series after Soul Edge/Soul Blade.

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Demon's sold 2 million copies though. It did give Dark Souls a boost because all those players knew what Dark Souls was going to be.

 

[HighFive]

Souls fan, but i think GTA3 deserve this award. How many open world game we got after this.

 

[Jakenbakin]

GTA3 was on the frontier of a natural development style that had been burgeoning for years. Wildly successful, and certainly influential to the publishers who wanted to chase that success, but aside from being able to say it was open world, with a plethora of missions to take as well as being able to enjoy the world itself... I don't see it as influential as Dark Souls. Dark Souls was almost like a subversion of many game tropes dominating the industry, whereas GTA3 was a culmination of them.

Anyway that's my hot take of the day.

 

[LDNStateOfMind]

Had this thread a month or so back I said COD4 then and I'm even more convinced now it still is. Tbh I don't think it's close

 

[Manmademan]

Demon's sold 2 million copies though. It did give Dark Souls a boost because all those players knew what Dark Souls was going to be.

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That's total. How much of that was in the US, as opposed to the EU or JP?

How did Dark Souls sell in the US in comparison?

edit: this article

https://graphmag.wordpress.com/tag/demons-souls-sales-worldwide/

Says 250k in japan, 500k copies in the US, and 740k in the EU/rest of world.

Dark Souls was not only on 360 but PC also- Demon's Souls is a PS3 only title. US exposure to Dark Souls would have been a lot higher.

The narrative around these games tends to come from US gamers and gaming journalist outlets. In 2009, the 360 was completely crushing the PS3 and it wasn't close.

 

[Eidan]

Demon's sold 2 million copies though. It did give Dark Souls a boost because all those players knew what Dark Souls was going to be.

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Well here's an easy way to determine which was more influential.

Which one was more popular? Which one do people cite more as being influential?

 

[Gold Arsene]

Boy I hope not.

 

[werezompire]

Demon's Souls isn't some "ancestor route," it is the direct father to it's spiritual successor Dark Souls, which came out only two years later and is very much a continuation.

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When measuring influence, you look at direct influence, otherwise you can just keep going back further and further. You can say Final Fantasy 7 is one of the most influential games of all time even though FF7 never would have happened without the foundation laid by FF6 and FF1-5. You can say Mario 64 is one of the most influential games of all time even though it would never have existed if not for Super Mario Bros.

 

[DixieDean82]

Next from GameSpot - Water is wet.

 

[bbq of doom]

When measuring influence, you look at direct influence, otherwise you can just keep going back further and further. You can say Final Fantasy 7 is one of the most influential games of all time even though FF7 never would have happened without the foundation laid by FF6 and FF1-5. You can say Mario 64 is one of the most influential games of all time even though it would never have existed if not for Super Mario Bros.

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Precisely this. Dark Souls brought it together and gave it the masses, thereby it is rightfully credited as being the influencer in the series.

 

[SofNascimento]

It's not the only factor, but it is a factor, or it could be about doing it "the best" or something along those lines; it's the influence that it carriers. The only thing Skyrim brought was popularity, and even prior, Oblivion was very popular.

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But then, popularity is what makes a game influential. That's why Dark Souls in this thread and not Demon's Souls.

 

[silva1991]

It's up there. I see Dark Souls influence in countless games with sword combat.

 

[giallo]

The amount of games and play mechanics that have been influenced by or straight up aped DS over the past few years is immense. I'd definitely say it's been one of the most influential games this century.

As for THE most influential, it's gotta be GTA3.

 

[Dwebble]

It might not be in the top ten of the century, never mind top.

GTA III
Modern Warfare
Minecraft
Wii Sports
RE4
World of Warcraft
PUBG
Skyrim
Halo
Angry Birds

 

[bbq of doom]

Sorry guys. I know people love their Souls games, but it represents a single subset of games, mostly coming from one developer- and it appeals to a niche audience- a large-ish niche, but these most certainly are not games for "everyone" by any sense of the imagination.

I don't say this to take anything away from these games, or insults its fans. But it is not a seminal or "most influential" game of an entire freaking century. Its got a couple of poor imitiators (and maybe a handful of decent games made in its image (cough Nioh)

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One of the biggest media properties in the history of the planet is using a Dark Souls-lite template for its latest foray into video games and the developers of said game can't stop saying "Dark Souls" when asked about their game. I think you're significantly understating Dark Souls' reach.

 

[Manmademan]

When measuring influence, you look at direct influence, otherwise you can just keep going back further and further. You can say Final Fantasy 7 is one of the most influential games of all time even though FF7 never would have happened without the foundation laid by FF6 and FF1-5. You can say Mario 64 is one of the most influential games of all time even though it would never have existed if not for Super Mario Bros.

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This isn't a good comparison, since Demon's and Dark were released so close to each other, are near carbon copies of each other in terms of gameplay and technical performance, and have total sales that are also pretty close to each other (1.7m vs. 2.3m, if quick google search is any indication). Dark Souls isn't a breakout hit compared to Demon's- the only difference is that Dark had greater *US* exposure due to being multiplatform when the PS3 was struggling in the West.

It's less like comparing Final Fantasy 6 to Final Fantasy 7, or SMB to SMB64 than it is comparing Uncharted 1 and 2.

 

[OG YOLOwen]

Except none of those games created an entire genre to themselves.

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And dark souls did...?

Look I'm not saying it's not influential. It very much so is. But to place it over Halo 3/CoD4/Minecraft/Fortnite/Even fucking Candy Crush is just pure circlejerking

 

[sappyday]

I see it really being influential to many up and coming game director

 

[Deleted member 4346]

I love Dark Souls, it's one of the 10 best games ever made, but it's not the most influential. That has to go to either Grand Theft Auto 3 or Minecraft. I voted GTA3 in the poll.

Although I would like to say, I think it's interesting that GTA3 gets credit for "creating" the open-world genre, when it was in many ways derivative of other works. You could see similar elements in Shenmue, or in Omnikron, to name two earlier open-world games, particularly Shenmue. GTA3 changed gaming for good, and these games did not, in the same way, but I think you have to credit them nonetheless.

I know people love their Souls games, but it represents a single subset of games, mostly coming from one developer- and it appeals to a niche audience- a large-ish niche, but these most certainly are not games for "everyone" by any sense of the imagination.

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Look at the overall sales of Souls games now. They are definitely no longer "niche". And there's no game out there for everyone. You name any game, I guarantee you there are gamers who aren't interested in it.

 

[pswii60]

GTAIII, Halo CE, CoD4, and Minecraft all have stronger claims imo.

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Absolutely. And RE4.

There's definitely recency bias going on here, as in forgetting everything that came out and was influential during the first decade of the 21st century (including Dark Souls' own predecessor in 2009).

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

*cough* Demon's Souls *cough*

and no

its GTA

 

[N.47H.4N]

Grand Theft Auto 3 is the most influential game easy.

 

[Deleted member 52190]

Grand Theft Auto 3 is the most influential game easy.

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Yap.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Dark Souls spawned it's own genre of action games, inspired others to explore other means of telling story rather than dialogue boxes and spoken word and retaught an audience that challenge can be fun and rewarding.

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Dark Souls did nothing for story telling in gaming. The contribution was explaining lore in item descriptions. It has audio tapes that you have to read.

 

[werezompire]

This isn't a good comparison, since Demon's and Dark were released so close to each other, are near carbon copies of each other in terms of gameplay and technical performance, and have total sales that are also pretty close to each other (1.7m vs. 2.3m, if quick google search is any indication). Dark Souls isn't a breakout hit compared to Demon's- the only difference is that Dark had greater *US* exposure due to being multiplatform when the PS3 was struggling in the West.

It's less like comparing Final Fantasy 6 to Final Fantasy 7, or SMB to SMB64 than it is comparing Uncharted 1 and 2.

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It's funny you mention Uncharted since Uncharted 2 is widely considered an influential game and Uncharted 1 isn't. But with the FF6 vs 7 comparison, yeah the tech is different, but FF6 had a huge cinematic focus which FF7 continued.

As far as sales go, I'm not seeing any reputable sales data for Demon's Souls. The 1.7 million is just an estimate by a Forbes article many years after the game came out with no indication of what they used to base that on. Also, since it's many years later, many of the sales could have been brought on by people playing Dark Souls and looking for more. Wikipedia has a link to a Japanese site that says the game had sold over 1 million worldwide by the end of 2011 (game came out in 2009).

SteamSpy has a low-end estimate for Dark Souls 1 + remastered at 2.5 million with a high-end estimate of 6 million and that's just PC/Steam.

As far as gameplay goes, Dark Souls made a number of changes which led to it achieving more widespread success, including the interconnected map, more emphasis on online, big improvements in resource management (flask system, no inventory limit, magic uses vs MP), and covenants.

 

[Kyle Cross]

Just when I think this series couldn't possibly get anymore overrated, you see shit like this.

 

[Cactuar]

When measuring influence, you look at direct influence, otherwise you can just keep going back further and further. You can say Final Fantasy 7 is one of the most influential games of all time even though FF7 never would have happened without the foundation laid by FF6 and FF1-5. You can say Mario 64 is one of the most influential games of all time even though it would never have existed if not for Super Mario Bros.

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Which is why I brought up Demon's Souls in relations to Dark Souls, Demon's Souls is the direct influence. You are the one who brought up King's Field, a 1994 first person game, in which even the latest title came out way back in 2001. I think everyone realizes without King's Field there would be no Demon's Souls, just like without Final Fantasy I there would be no Final Fantasy VII.

 

[FRS1987]

Probably between GTA 3 and RE4. RE4 changed the landscape of all shooters, GTA influence is still felt today in open world

 

[maxx720]

DS is highly influential, but GTA3 and Call of Duty clearly had far, far more impact.

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Call of Duty.

 

[only_fools_&_horses]

My vote goes to GTA III, even though RE4 is surely one of them.

 

[halcali]

Just when I think this series couldn't possibly get anymore overrated, you see shit like this.

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It's because of "Souls-like" moniker that so many games receive that this article posed the question.
I think it's not so egregious to pose the question about DS, as it also influenced a massive Let's Play (i.e. "Let's Die") playthrough culture, which was fun at the time. lol

 

[Servbot24]

I'd say Team Fortress 2 may even be more influential

 

[modestb]

We've had similar conversations on Era before about this, and while I think Dark Souls is ONE OF the most influential games post-2000, I don't think it has a cinch on THE most. Of the 2010's? Maybe.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Demon's Souls need to take any credit people are giving to Dark Souls.

Demon's Souls is the game that repopularized the dark fantasy action RPG soulslike genre.

 

[Doskoi Panda]

We've had similar conversations on Era before about this, and while I think Dark Souls is ONE OF the most influential games post-2000, I don't think it has a cinch on THE most. Of the 2010's? Maybe.

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if we restrict to the 2010s then I can still think of a few games that beat out Dark Souls handily in terms of their influence
like ArmA and maybe Rocket League

 

[Moose]

Yeah it's not even in the top 10 most influential games.

 

[bionic77]

I don't see a lot of GTA clones so I wouldn't put that at the top (though it is still hugely influential).

I would probably go with RE4 (which kind of set the standard for TPS) or a shooter, probably Call of Duty. I feel like there are more shooters on the market so I would probably say Call of Duty is the most influential games just based on how many games copy it.

 

[modestb]

if we restrict to the 2010s then I can still think of a few games that beat out Dark Souls handily in terms of their influence
like ArmA and maybe Rocket League

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In terms of influencing other games and game developers? 80% of indie game output and the kickstarter craze that helped launch indies into more mainstream was the words "Like Dark Souls but..."

 

[crimsonred]

World of Warcraft I would argue is the most influential games of the 21 century. It primed the whole millennial generation to accept subscription-based schemes for games. Argueably a precursor to dlc.

 

[hussien-11]

GTA3 wasn't really that influential compared to other games here.

in terms of gunplay even GTA followed the formula that was set by Resident Evil 4.

in terms of open world design the industry followed The Elder Scrolls not GTA

The Witcher 3, Breath of the Wild and many other games, the biggest open world games out there, are influenced by Bethesda.

 

[KORNdog]

Is it that influential? I can't really think of many games that seem all that influenced by it?

 

[KINGOFSHIBUYA Ltd.]

Grand Theft Auto III, Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare, and then maybe RE4, BioShock or Demon's Souls for third.
Maybe Minecraft afterwards.

Regardless I don't know how it would be Dark Souls and not Demons Souls.

I think folks started go in on difficulty post-Demon's Souls, because it sold and reviewed well. The market seemed like it was expanding and Demon's Souls was not coming to greet the Rock Band/Madden/Wii Sports audience.


Im talking about influence on game makers, not fans on message boards, by the way.


Also, CoD4 ruined most multiplayer shooters. I still stand by this old late 00s take. I just got Battlefront 2 on sale for $6 on PS+, and I still have to unlock every little thing, and also deal with bonuses and balance skewed towards those who have been playing longer.
I miss the old days of just getting all of the guns and picking a loadout, or picking it up on a map.

 

[Zemst]

They're right you know.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Sure it is. The Dark Souls of became a meme, AAA games take elements from it and mention it as an inspiration, tons of indies are inspired by it and then there are the Souls-likes such as Nioh and The Surge.

The most infuential? No. Very influential? For sure.

 

[Doskoi Panda]

In terms of influencing other games and game developers? 80% of indie game output and the kickstarter craze that helped launch indies into more mainstream was the words "Like Dark Souls but..."

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80% is one hell of an exaggeration, but I get you.

ArmA, on the other hand, is responsible for creating, redefining, or otherwise popularizing:
- the survival game genre (DayZ was an ArmA mod, and set the stage for the success of everything that followed)
- roleplay streams like FiveM (with ArmA Life doing a lot more than predecessors like gmod in popularizing this form of entertainment)
- and the big one... battle royale (before PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds, there was PlayerUnknown's BattleRoyale - an ArmA mod and PUBG's direct predecessor)