Gaming on Linux 2019 | A GNU Era of Gaming

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,545
32bit needs to go sooner or later. And since the problem with games breaking won't change with time, why not now. I don't think how it affects a third party store for closed source games is even on Canonical's radar, and why would it be? Their focus should be on the good of Linux and the OS they're making.

Valve could just lump the libraries together and ship them with Steam.
Oh can they do that? Just include it in steam? I guess they already do that for other stuff.
 

itsamiracle

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,451
Tbf, "hey just run your legacy software in our slow as molasses container technology' is kinda funny. Thankfully LTS is going to be supported till 2023 for those that want to stay on the ubuntu platform hoping the situation is going to be resolved till then. Personally, I wouldn't mind Valve migrating to Debian Stable or Debian Testing for their client.
 

Xharos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,643
Canary Islands, Spain
Soooo how do you install software that isn't on a repo in non-Ubuntu distros?

I'm trying out Solus on a virtual machine. Let's say I want to use the latest development version of PCSX2. The version in the software manager is the latest stable version, which is from 2016. I can't use the daily builds PPA, since this is not Ubuntu. How am I supposed to use the development version of PCSX2?

Same question for Dolphin. Emulators are very important to me. I can't settle with their super old stable versions.
 
OP
OP
Nappael

Nappael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,177
Soooo how do you install software that isn't on a repo in non-Ubuntu distros?

I'm trying out Solus on a virtual machine. Let's say I want to use the latest development version of PCSX2. The version in the software manager is the latest stable version, which is from 2016. I can't use the daily builds PPA, since this is not Ubuntu. How am I supposed to use the development version of PCSX2?

Same question for Dolphin. Emulators are very important to me. I can't settle with their super old stable versions.
Can't you just use flatpak? PCSX2 flatpak version is 1.5.0 dev, so should be what you want.
 

Melhadf

Member
Dec 25, 2017
118
The "ubuntu situation" looks like a repeat of 16 to 32 bit. Someone has to be the first to commit and start to withdraw compatibility.
 
OP
OP
Nappael

Nappael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,177
I didn't realise there was a flatpak. Where is it?
Been a while since I played around with Solus, but I think you might still need to set it up.


Then you should be able to just grab it from Flathub. On some distros, flatpak packages show up in the software centre but I'm not sure if this is the case on Solus.


 
OP
OP
Nappael

Nappael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,177
I've already posted this in the topic thread, but definitely important for here too:


Really amazing that Ubuntu isn't going to be the officially supported distro from 19.10 onwards. I wonder what distro they are going to go with. My bet would either be something else Debian based, just stick to SteamOS, or Fedora.

Manjaro is excellent, but I think it's too volatile being a rolling release to be officially supported.
 

zoku88

Member
Oct 27, 2017
428
The discourse page had the canonical developer saying that valve was working with them on a solution. I guess the solution was to not attempt to work around canonical's shit
 
OP
OP
Nappael

Nappael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,177
The discourse page had the canonical developer saying that valve was working with them on a solution. I guess the solution was to not attempt to work around canonical's shit
Valve clearly are working on a solution, but it's also very clearly not what they want. For them, it's a lot of extra development time spent on dealing with Canonical's pants on head decisionmaking, and a reason for them to want to refocus somewhere else.They just have no intention of allowing Steam to break on future versions of the most common distro.
 
Oct 25, 2017
68
I've already posted this in the topic thread, but definitely important for here too:


Really amazing that Ubuntu isn't going to be the officially supported distro from 19.10 onwards. I wonder what distro they are going to go with. My bet would either be something else Debian based, just stick to SteamOS, or Fedora.

Manjaro is excellent, but I think it's too volatile being a rolling release to be officially supported.
In an ideal world Valve would embrace Flatpak as their primary (or even only) install method for Steam on Linux. That way they wouldn't have to care about what the distros were doing so much.
 

morningbus

Member
Oct 31, 2017
198
Crazy that Valve will most likely play kingmaker for the next desktop distro.

I've been looking to get a Linux partition back up and running on my gaming PC for a little while now. I'm leaning towards Manjaro as I'm already running some arch-based systems but I've been hearing good things about Solus. Any main differences to consider?
 

eddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
766
I'm all for a 64-bit clean future. Death to multilib!

Gaming is such a special case, but waiting isn't going to solve anything, just gives developers more time to push their unclean 32-bit binaries into the world. The sooner we 'freeze' and contain this 32-bit world, the sooner we can start building long term solutions around it.
 
OP
OP
Nappael

Nappael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,177
Crazy that Valve will most likely play kingmaker for the next desktop distro.

I've been looking to get a Linux partition back up and running on my gaming PC for a little while now. I'm leaning towards Manjaro as I'm already running some arch-based systems but I've been hearing good things about Solus. Any main differences to consider?
Manjaro is a solid option. It's probably the best out the box Linux experience I've ever used, although I tend to take caution in recommending it to newcomers because of system maintenance issues down the line. If you've used Arch then I doubt that'll ever be a problem for you. Software is basically never a consideration thanks to the Arch repos being huge (and the Manjaro repos basically being Arch repos held back a couple of weeks), and AUR existing.

Solus is a different approach to a rolling release. It uses some of the Clear Linux optimisations, has a much smaller set of repos, but carefully tests everything. It tries to be a very stable distro considering it's a rolling release, and it's expected that you get most of your third party software through things like flatpak and snap.
 
Manjaro is a unprofessional distro and it breaks a lot because it's arch and rolling release, solus is a small hobby project. Valve likely isn't pushing a distro that people work on for free. Suse is the primary candidate right now, they just hired a kde dev to work on kwin too. Kde is the default for suse. Suse is also a company that has had billions of dollars around it. We won't have to worry about them dropping the project because the devs don't have the free time or whatever. They are like red hat or canonical. I wonder if Pop OS is an option too...
 
OP
OP
Nappael

Nappael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,177
Oh yeah, I wasn't suggesting that Valve officially support Manjaro or Solus. I think they would both be pretty poor ideas. I was just giving some comments on what Morningbus mentioned :P

I do disagree that Manjaro breaks a lot though. You can go a long time without having any issues with it just by doing some pretty simple system maintenance and making sure to read the update logs before doing an upgrade. I just don't recommend it to beginners because I know they'll do neither of those things and at some point they are going to hit broken packages. In theory, Manjaro should suffer from that less than Arch, but in practice they pushed an update which broke like 25% of users systems just a few months ago, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

OpenSuse would be a really interesting choice, though. I hadn't considered that option, but it would fit.
 
Last edited:

hikarutilmitt

Member
Dec 16, 2017
2,583
Manjaro is a unprofessional distro and it breaks a lot because it's arch and rolling release, solus is a small hobby project. Valve likely isn't pushing a distro that people work on for free. Suse is the primary candidate right now, they just hired a kde dev to work on kwin too. Kde is the default for suse. Suse is also a company that has had billions of dollars around it. We won't have to worry about them dropping the project because the devs don't have the free time or whatever. They are like red hat or canonical. I wonder if Pop OS is an option too...
I can tell you from experience that, even though it's a rolling release distro, Arch is definitely not going to "break a lot". Even with my goofing things up in various situations, it's been the most stable distro I've ever used, right next to Slackware. Which is amusing to see mentioned next to SUSE, since I've had Suse frequently break in the past, which is why I've never given it more than few days of my time.

I also have a huge boner against non-default binaries being shipped, which is one of the reasons I strongly dislike Ubuntu. Nobody should be deciding what is best for me. Unless SUSE has changed their ways with that, they can stay in VM land for testing, for me.
 

morningbus

Member
Oct 31, 2017
198
Oh yeah, trust me I was not looking for recommendations on installing Valve's anointed distro before everyone else. I've had at least 1 Linux machine in service at some point during the last 14 years now and, while not an expert by any stretch, I'm not a novice either.

I was just interested in hearing about those 2, non-Ubuntu derived distros, especially Manjaro. Thanks Nappael
 

thebishop

Member
Nov 10, 2017
1,441
In an ideal world Valve would embrace Flatpak as their primary (or even only) install method for Steam on Linux. That way they wouldn't have to care about what the distros were doing so much.
This could work for the Steam client, but SteamOS (which i still think is their priority even though it's been dormant) is built on Debian. If they switch to an "official" distro not based on deb (personally I would prefer fedora), they'd either have to move their build/deployment system (could be a lot of work), or Linux desktop users would be less suitable as unwitting testers for SteamOS (which defeats much of the purpose).

IMO Fedora and OpenSUSE are the only viable alternatives to Ubuntu as a desktop client. The others either lack establishment support and/or rely heavily on Ubuntu upstream.
 

eddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
766
IMO Fedora and OpenSUSE are the only viable alternatives to Ubuntu as a desktop client. The others either lack establishment support and/or rely heavily on Ubuntu upstream.
Isn't Fedora a bleeding-edge OS? Seems like the opposite of what they'd want if they're looking for some peace and quiet, and of course there's no guarantee Fedora wouldn't do the same thing.
Fedora contains software distributed under various free and open-source licenses and aims to be on the leading edge of such technologies
OpenSUSE has like no mindshare AFAIK, unless they're super-popular in some region (germany?).
 
Last edited:

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,545
Too bad so many distros are ubuntu derived. Its incestuous!

It be cool if steamos could double as a desktop.

If Ubuntu waited long enough to see it affects migration to 19.10, valve would probably still be looking for another solution, huh?

This is so weird. They are going to have to pick something way less popular than ubuntu to target. Everything is less popular.

Could someone explain like im 12 how another distribution can support the 32bit packages and how difficult that would be? And can the efforts be shared?

System 76 just said they're going to continue to support steam and all games at full performance in future versions. How are they handling that?

If valve waa to change the target to pop os (who apparently sees steam and games as very important applications) would that save alot of headache because its on ubuntu and already moving to solve the problem?
 

itsamiracle

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,451
I guess this is one of those times when a source based distro like gentoo shines. Flip the abi_x86_32 flag = problem solved 😛
 

Toast

Member
Oct 28, 2017
151
Wonder if this with Apple ditching 32-bit programs soon is gonna make Valve release a 64-bit version of the client this year.
 

itsamiracle

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,451
Changing the client to 64bit doesn't help with the actual problem with are the 32bit games and the various legacy proprietary software. I don't see Valve shipping themselves every single necessary 32bit component either.
 

eddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
766
The Mac version of Steam is already 64 bit.

I'll never stop wondering why Valve didn't make Steam for Linux 64 bit only from the very start. :( (which doesn't make Canonical's move less shitty)
I believe the Windows version is too nowadays.

Even on linux they've hoisted the 'steamwebhelpers' to 64-bit already, just like they did for Windows as a first step.
 
Last edited:

eddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
766
Changing the client to 64bit doesn't help with the actual problem with are the 32bit games and the various legacy proprietary software. I don't see Valve shipping themselves every single necessary 32bit component either.
Sure, but it solves the problem of not being able to run Steam at all without 32-bit libraries, and correctly moves the problem to individual titles. Specifically old titles, because no one should have been shipping 32-bit binaries for a decade+ (AMD64 was introduced in hardware in 2003!)
 

eddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
766
Nope, on Windows only the webhelper is 64 bit
Well, I'm not sure what their fucking problem is, to be blunt, unless they're big fans of pirated totally unsafe and not fit for purpose Windows XP installations.

They're also signing their 32-bit binaries with SHA1. I guess "if it works don't change it" is the guiding principle.
 
Last edited:

Toast

Member
Oct 28, 2017
151
The Mac version of Steam is already 64 bit.

I'll never stop wondering why Valve didn't make Steam for Linux 64 bit only from the very start. :( (which doesn't make Canonical's move less shitty)
Huh, how odd that Mac is the only OS with a 64-bit version of steam.

Yeah, I know its not really related to 32-bit libraries. Wine and steam gotta be shopping around distros which ships the libraries now, and so will I after 18.04 supports ends. Used to have Manjaro, but where I live internet is very unreliable, and had periods where I'm offline for like 6 months. Making a rolling release distros a no for me.
 
OP
OP
Nappael

Nappael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,177
Too bad so many distros are ubuntu derived. Its incestuous!

It be cool if steamos could double as a desktop.

If Ubuntu waited long enough to see it affects migration to 19.10, valve would probably still be looking for another solution, huh?

This is so weird. They are going to have to pick something way less popular than ubuntu to target. Everything is less popular.

Could someone explain like im 12 how another distribution can support the 32bit packages and how difficult that would be? And can the efforts be shared?

System 76 just said they're going to continue to support steam and all games at full performance in future versions. How are they handling that?

If valve waa to change the target to pop os (who apparently sees steam and games as very important applications) would that save alot of headache because its on ubuntu and already moving to solve the problem?
I had a fairly long post written, but I'll keep it short: To my understanding, PopOS providing multiarch is totally doable, but boy am I glad I'm not them right now

Getting all the sources for common libraries, recompiling it all for i386, managing a separate repo for it and testing it all works in common scenarios does not sound enjoyable for what is a fairly small group of developers.
 

Xharos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,643
Canary Islands, Spain
Valve released Steam for Linux in 2012. I really can't understand the reasoning behind not making it 64 bit only from the very start. In 2012, most gamers had already moved on to 64 bit. And I assure you that 99% of gamers that were tech savvy enough to install Linux in the first place either were already on 64 bit or willing and able to move to it. If they had made it 64 bit only from the very start and allowing ONLY 64 bit games to be released on Steam, we would have lost some games that had their Linux port made before Steam was released, but... that's it. Now Valve would only have to worry about 32 bit Proton and nothing more. The rest would be all 64 bit. I wish :(

It just seems weird to me that they future-proofed SteamOS by making it UEFI only and 64 bit only but not Steam for Linux itself
 

discotrigger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
229
System 76 just said they're going to continue to support steam and all games at full performance in future versions. How are they handling that?

If valve waa to change the target to pop os (who apparently sees steam and games as very important applications) would that save alot of headache because its on ubuntu and already moving to solve the problem?
They're probably going to merge from Debian itself and maintain the subset of 32-bit libraries and drivers required for games and WINE. I can't see a more obvious solution. They won't need all of the 32-bit libraries Ubuntu currently maintains, after all, just those typically required for 3D games.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Nappael

Nappael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,177
In some way, Linux Mint come out of this looking in pretty decent condition. They have had LMDE running for years simply as a testing ground in case using Ubuntu as their base became impractical for some reason.

It was never as usable as their Ubuntu versions, but this is the exact kind of position which justifies its existence.
 

Xharos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,643
Canary Islands, Spain
I'm trying Manjaro in a VM. I wanted to install Dolphin (the emulator) just to see how you install things in Manjaro, and decided to try to compile it by myself. And I did. I just compiled a program for the first time in my life.



Jokes aside, is this how you're supposed to install software that isn't in the repos in Manjaro? Because it took like 20 minutes to compile lol.
 
Oct 25, 2017
68
This could work for the Steam client, but SteamOS (which i still think is their priority even though it's been dormant) is built on Debian. If they switch to an "official" distro not based on deb (personally I would prefer fedora), they'd either have to move their build/deployment system (could be a lot of work), or Linux desktop users would be less suitable as unwitting testers for SteamOS (which defeats much of the purpose).

IMO Fedora and OpenSUSE are the only viable alternatives to Ubuntu as a desktop client. The others either lack establishment support and/or rely heavily on Ubuntu upstream.
I don't think that the target distro for the Valve's Steam client package and what distro SteamOS is based on are really related the way you're suggesting. For starters, the Steam client package Valve provides is for Ubuntu, and SteamOS is based on Debian, as you say, so it's not like they're the same today either.

By providing a Flatpak, instead of a package that's suitable for some other single distro, they dramatically increase the number of Steam users who are going to be able to use the Valve provided package instead of some repackaged version from a third-party repo, and they're no longer at the mercy of bad decisions made by the any single distro.

In any case, if having the environment the Steam client is run in and SteamOS be similar is a goal, Flatpak actually gives them a way to do that much more effectively. If they maintain their own Flatpak runtime based on the SteamOS userspace, then everyone using the Steam flatpak will be running it in an environment almost identical to SteamOS, regardless of what distro they use.
 
OP
OP
Nappael

Nappael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,177
I'm trying Manjaro in a VM. I wanted to install Dolphin (the emulator) just to see how you install things in Manjaro, and decided to try to compile it by myself. And I did. I just compiled a program for the first time in my life.



Jokes aside, is this how you're supposed to install software that isn't in the repos in Manjaro? Because it took like 20 minutes to compile lol.
If it isn't in the repos, enable AUR. From a quick search, dolphin-emu should be in the standard repos, dolphin-emu-git has an AUR package. If you use the AUR you'll still be building from source technically, but you'll be using community provided PKGBUILDs which help make the installation process a breeze.

As a general rule though, don't rely on AUR too much, don't use -git versions of software where possible (but for Dolphin, I'd say go for it), and scan through the pkgbuild before installing if you are paranoid since you are dealing with community scripts at that point. The AUR is the biggest source of software you'll ever find, it has everything, but it's also more risky than officially packaged repos.

Most manjaro users use an AUR helper, we can have a discussion if they are a good idea or not another time but I'll just assume that's what you want for now. From memory, you'll either have Pamac (most of the time) or Octopi (KDE) GUI frontends installed already, they are probably the easiest place to start.

In Pamac, it should be as easy as opening the preferences -> AUR -> Enable AUR. Then when you search for dolphin, there will be an AUR tab on the left where you should be able to find dolphin-emu-git.

In Octopi you'll need to first install Trizen, Pacuar, or Yaourt then enable it in Tools -> Options -> AUR. You'll then get a little alien logo in the top panel near the search bar. Click it, then you can search the AUR. Of the 3, I have the best opinion of Trizen, but quite frankly none are ideal.
 

Xharos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,643
Canary Islands, Spain
If it isn't in the repos, enable AUR. From a quick search, dolphin-emu should be in the standard repos, dolphin-emu-git has an AUR package. If you use the AUR you'll still be building from source technically, but you'll be using community provided PKGBUILDs which help make the installation process a breeze.

Just... Don't rely on AUR too much, don't use -git versions of software where possible, and scan through the pkgbuild before installing if you are paranoid since you are dealing with community scripts at that point.

Most manjaro users use an AUR helper, we can have a discussion if they are a good idea or not another time but I'll just assume that's what you want for now. From memory, you'll either have Pamac (most of the time) or Octopi (KDE).

In Pamac, it should be as easy as opening the preferences -> AUR -> Enable AUR. Then when you search for dolphin, there will be an AUR tab on the left where you should be able to find dolphin-emu-git.

In Octopi you'll need to first install Trizen, Pacuar, or Yaourt then enable it in Tools -> Options -> AUR. You'll then get a little alien logo in the top panel near the search bar. Click it, then you can search the AUR. Of the 3, I have the best opinion of Trizen, but quite frankly none are ideal.
I understand that I shouldn't just be using git versions of everything, but for Dolphin and PCSX2 it's just a must to use the latest development versions lol

Thanks! Also, do you think using Budgie on Manjaro will be a good experience? I really really love budgie. Which Manjaro version should I use if I plan to install Budgie? Gnome?
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Nappael

Nappael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,177
I understand that I shouldn't just be using git versions of everything, but for Dolphin and PCSX2 it's just a must to use the latest development versions lol

Thanks! Also, do you think using Budgie on Manjaro will be a good experience? I really really love budgie. Which Manjaro version should I use if I plan to install Budgie? Gnome?
I thought that they provided a Manjaro Budgie, but maybe it was one of their many community versions. I'd probably just start there honestly.

I see no reason why Manjaro Budgie wouldn't work well.
 

Xharos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,643
Canary Islands, Spain
How's the compatibility of 144 Hz monitors on Linux? I used to have high DPI compatibility issues with my 25" 1440p 60 Hz monitor, but I replaced it with a 25" 1080p 144 Hz monitor. Will I now have problems with 144 Hz compatibility or is that perfect? Does it work on Budgie?

Also does FreeSync work with Nvidia on Linux?
 
Last edited:

eddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
766
How's the compatibility of 144 Hz monitors on Linux? I used to have high DPI compatibility with my 25" 1440p 60 Hz monitor, but I replaced it with a 25" 1080p 144 Hz monitor. Will I now have problems with 144 Hz compatibility or is that perfect? Does it work on Budgie?

Also does FreeSync work with Nvidia on Linux?
High refresh rates are not problem. Freesync should work, as per button seen below:

 

eddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
766
Which distro and DE are you using?
This is from Linux Mint running Cinnamon on x11, with nVidia's 430.26 driver.

I believe this is the magic xorg.conf "Screen" section option corresponding to that button:

Option "metamodes" "2560x1440_144 +0+0 {AllowGSYNCCompatible=On}"
 
Last edited:

Xharos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,643
Canary Islands, Spain